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If this game is really down to the players, that managers have such little effect and that failures are down to the players, then surely successful managers are only successful due to the players and that managers are, to a point, irrelevant, so why have them? Or are managers hugely influential?
Of course they are influencial.
Ie Jones unfit players , 2 man weak central midfield , big man little man attack. Most talented youngster in a generation underused.
Malky within 2 years. Arguably a less talented squad walks the league.
If Klopp swapped places with Harris we'd finish above them within 5 years.
Managers are influential and have proven to be time and again. Harris is just making the usual noises of a man heading out of the door in hinting that he is doing all he can but the players are simply not performing.
Apparently we controlled the game against Forest. How you can control a game while being 1-0 down and having next to no shots on target is beyond me.
Going back a few years, Andres Villas Boas was a fantastic manager at Porto, a very good manager at Spurs and an average to below average manager at Chelsea despite Chelsea players being (presumably) highest rated on FIFA. Wasn't he replaced at Chelsea by Di Matteo who was a less good manager but won the champions League with basically the same players?
Slightly more up to date, Wilder has been best manager in England for past 4 years but now can't win a game despite the players he bought this season having a higher ceiling of talent than ever before. It's not like either of AVB or Wilder lost their skills as a manager despite change in fortunes at different times.
A number of factors goes into whether a team has a successful season or not. Not all of that is on the manager but obviously some is.
David Wagner ... outstanding at Huddersfield, absolute mare at Schalke.
I’d still have him & Mark Hudson from tomorrow & get rid of Harris.
It's a good call, Harris is out of his depth here
If it were me I still go 40 miles West first and ask Cooper to name his price
What we don't want is the merry go round managers like Pardew etc who all seem to get the jobs and are only somewhere for the short term
Bellamy with some experienced coaching staff alongside him would also get this team playing decent football
It was in a different time I know but as the years pass, the achievements of Brian Clough and Peter Taylor, especially at Forest, stand out more and more as truly remarkable feats of management.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
(Ignore Clough’s time at Brighton and Leeds obvs ;-) And I think that Forest got relegated in his final season, but he wasn’t the same man by then)
Managers are influential, but players can have a big influence on the manager, for example Alex Ferguson at Man Utd equal superb record, followed by David Moyes equal abysmal record. There have been many situations like this. I don’t believe that the players at City are fully behind Harris, for what reason I don’t know, but it seems that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Clough began to fail when he dispensed with Peter Taylor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff
We had 61% procession and 15 shots, 3 on target compared to their 6 shots also 3 on target! They just had one superb finish but we were the better team!Quote:
Originally Posted by blue lewj
Yea we probably were in two thirds of the pitch. Forest one of the few teams in this league that can give up possession easier than us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ianto13
Despite the possession we had we didn't muster a single effort that really called the keeper into action, not to my recollection. On that basis we did deserve to lose.
The biggest difference between last season and this is a fit Tomlin, simple as that for me, yes we have also conceded more sloppy goals but Tomlin yesterday probably creates something, does something, anything.
Someone that can play that role and a RB are needed urgently. And a cb it seems, Bennett won't have an easier afternoon playing there again.
And yet we lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ianto13
Having possession and 15 (completely in memorable shots - did their keep make a save?) does not make us the better team.
We were absolutely rubbish. And they were little better (they are 19th remember) but still ‘good enough’ to win.
So I completely disagree.
It is much easier to manage when you have seen the stars come through the youth system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef
Also players that you have brought to the club. They are your players.
These players will run through a brick wall for you.
Ferguson went to MU at a time when managers had more clout and, importantly, were given more time.
Since Bosman players and agents have so much power, and unlike a business performance management these managers are buggered if the players don't perform, or don't like some home truths about thier commitment, they simply don't engage and till earn contracted fortunes , in business your have better access and tools via employment law for under performance or abuse of employment standards.
And he was seconds away from the boot in 1990 (circa) against Palace but got out of jail. That was Man U’s stroke of luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by MacAdder
Does this mean we'll be in the draw for the next round? No didn't think so. This obsession with possession football baffles me, effective passing is the key but none of our players seem to be able to pass or look comfortable on the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ianto13
I think this would be my choice too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Parrot
I'm not sure about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCBlue
Unfortunately we are one of the worst sides in the division for scoring in “open” play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger
Fine if we get corners or free kicks. Then if you have Moore and Morrison missing you should plan an alternative approach.
We are incapable of doing that under Harris
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef
He had been given a fair bit of time but many were calling for his head, until a Mark Hughes volley in the league cup if memory serves.
So true.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
FA Cup FinalQuote:
Originally Posted by MacAdder
I thought it was a Mark Robins goal that allegedly saved him from the bullet. The once in a lifetime, perhaps two or three lifetimes, occurrence was the emergence of a young bunch of lads all around the same age already at the club, Giggs, the Neville’s, Scholes, Butt, Beckham. It wasn't as though Ferguson had to make a brave decision to chuck them in, they were ready and more than good enough and didn’t cost a bean. Unbelievable quirk of fate for Ferguson (massive kudos to Man Utd’s youth system though) having that lot drop in his lap, any decent manager of that era would have flourished with them had Ferguson been peddled beforehand in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by MacAdder
It wasn't that long ago people used to moan at the Jacks tipp tapping the ball from centre half to right or left back and boosted their possession that way. There's possession football and meaningful possession and we struggle whether in possession or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNDERHILL1927
As has been said before we can't do the basics and that falls at the manager and coaches.