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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
Again I can only repeat it’s still bloody August. Isn’t a bit early in the season for all this? What happens if you now go on a good run?
I really don’t get why people persist in saying “it’s only August”
Great. And we’re still playing terrible football and we’ve already completed our transfer business, which was awful for a team we were promised were going to “have a right go at it”
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
I really don’t get why people persist in saying “it’s only August”
Great. And we’re still playing terrible football and we’ve already completed our transfer business, which was awful for a team we were promised were going to “have a right go at it”
How do you the transfer business is awful? How much time are you going to give new signings? One match? Two matches? Or how about giving them time to gel
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
How do you the transfer business is awful? How much time are you going to give new signings? One match? Two matches? Or how about giving them time to gel
The season is a month old. We're talking about an organization of highly paid individuals from top to bottom. The team is supposed to be ready to go on day one. And it's Tan, Dalman, Choo, Warnock etc jobs to facilitate that.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
You don't recall the feeble football when the Jacks beat us at home? Was it Scunthorpe who we somehow beat but played poorly. For that 4-0 win at Leeds, the season was littered with poor performances. Had we managed half of the performance we gave at Elland road that side would have been champions.
That team didn't go up because they weren't good enough. The football it played was all too often poor as well. I remember long conversations on here about us playing a boring long ball game when we were outnumbered in midfield.
No one is saying it was great every game but as a whole it was still far more entertaining than negative, safety first football. We won twice as many as we lost and regularly scored 2s, 3s, 4s. Plenty of goals from open play, not relying on set pieces.
Yes we could mix it up and go long to Bothroyd, but he was terrific at bringing others into a play. It certainly wasn’t aimless hoofball with no one around an isolated striker like we have seen with Warnock or Slade and Malky for large parts.
Let’s be honest Eric youve always had an axe to grind with Dave Jones for some reason.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
How do you the transfer business is awful? How much time are you going to give new signings? One match? Two matches? Or how about giving them time to gel
The transfer business was awful cos he didn't address obvious holes in the squad. I'm not gonna slag off individuals but it didn't take a football genius to see what needed addressing this summer and Warnock for whatever reason has again looked at players character around the dressing room (maybe!) whilst ignoring whether they could fill the gap that was needed.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
dml1954
When you say 'plenty' I assume that you are referring to yourself and about another twenty people who regularly post on here.
You assume incorrectly, as usual. When I said plenty, I was referring to the people I've spoken to either in person or via text since Friday night, the comments I've read on social media feeds from friends who were at the game and the comments of other fans on social media who I don't know personally but were also at the game. Of the many people I know personally who remain active City fans, I've yet to see or hear anything from any of them that suggests they were impressed with their team's performance on Friday night. Indeed, the polar opposite is the case.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
I’m totally fine with us playing a chosen brand of football - variation of tactics/styles is a key part of the game, and when we win I tend to gloss over the how, but at the moment because we’re not winning more than 50% of our games it’s particularly tough to watch.
As for a comparisons between our recent managers chosen brand of football, for me Dave Jones is head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of the product on the field and that 4-0 win at Leeds is my favourite ever performance.
I’m sure there were games at the start of our promotion year under Warnock where we played attractive stuff (Leeds at home if I remember correctly) but they’re not indelibly printed in my memory.
I’d love to have seen that Dave Jones team get promotion - but defensively we weren’t good enough. I think if that had been sorted we’d have stayed up comfortably as well
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
No one is saying it was great every game but as a whole it was still far more entertaining than negative, safety first football. We won twice as many as we lost and regularly scored 2s, 3s, 4s. Plenty of goals from open play, not relying on set pieces.
Yes we could mix it up and go long to Bothroyd, but he was terrific at bringing others into a play. It certainly wasn’t aimless hoofball with no one around an isolated striker like we have seen with Warnock or Slade and Malky for large parts.
Let’s be honest Eric youve always had an axe to grind with Dave Jones for some reason.
I'm glad I'm not the only one with my opinions. My problem with Jones is that we could play some superb stuff, blow teams off the park, then go for ages looking awful, void of ideas, look clueless and he'd do nothing about it. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he should have got us promoted. We got to a cup final but did poorly in enough games to finish mid table. Missed out on playoffs when we were miles clear. Lost to Blackpool after we had no plan B for an already crocked Bothroyd. Failed to get the best side I've seen in that 2010/11 season promoted. That team should have gone up automatically.
Malky and Warnock got inferior teams to the Premier League. It's fine being able to play some really good football from time to time but we didn't do it enough under Jones. Others are suggesting too that history has tended to be rewritten about Jones and Mackay, so I'm not alone in thinking that. I've never suggested that Jones wasn't a good manager for us. For me he was ultimately a frustrating one. Flat track bullies was a phrase I remember TOBW using. Fantastic when conditions suited us. Struggled if things didn't go to plan and we didn't know how to change things.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
StraightOuttaCanton
I’d love to have seen that Dave Jones team get promotion - but defensively we weren’t good enough. I think if that had been sorted we’d have stayed up comfortably as well
Totally agree. Those teams were most suited to the Premier League.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
I'm glad I'm not the only one with my opinions. My problem with Jones is that we could play some superb stuff, blow teams off the park, then go for ages looking awful, void of ideas, look clueless and he'd do nothing about it. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he should have got us promoted. We got to a cup final but did poorly in enough games to finish mid table. Missed out on playoffs when we were miles clear. Lost to Blackpool after we had no plan B for an already crocked Bothroyd. Failed to get the best side I've seen in that 2010/11 season promoted. That team should have gone up automatically.
Malky and Warnock got inferior teams to the Premier League. It's fine being able to play some really good football from time to time but we didn't do it enough under Jones. Others are suggesting too that history has tended to be rewritten about Jones and Mackay, so I'm not alone in thinking that. I've never suggested that Jones wasn't a good manager for us. For me he was ultimately a frustrating one. Flat track bullies was a phrase I remember TOBW using. Fantastic when conditions suited us. Struggled if things didn't go to plan and we didn't know how to change things.
Jones's team could play but a side that was prepared to roll their sleeves up always had a chance.For me though Malky's side played the most turgid football,even worse than Warnocks.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
Hilts
It obviously doesn't upset him im sure hes enjoying seeing us struggle. If wed played brilliant football theres no way hed post a thread saying a great team to watch.😂
Ex fans are always the worse to criticise.
Saying that most of his op is correct and we are dreaful to watch at the moment. BUT i still enjoyed it more than the live stuff that was on yesterday.
That's not true, i've had loads of conversations with him about the city since he walked away and he has never said that he wants the club to fail or play badly and lose, and he would've said so, that's his personality, he doesn't hide his opinions or dress them up.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
I'm glad I'm not the only one with my opinions. My problem with Jones is that we could play some superb stuff, blow teams off the park, then go for ages looking awful, void of ideas, look clueless and he'd do nothing about it. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he should have got us promoted. We got to a cup final but did poorly in enough games to finish mid table. Missed out on playoffs when we were miles clear. Lost to Blackpool after we had no plan B for an already crocked Bothroyd. Failed to get the best side I've seen in that 2010/11 season promoted. That team should have gone up automatically.
Malky and Warnock got inferior teams to the Premier League. It's fine being able to play some really good football from time to time but we didn't do it enough under Jones. Others are suggesting too that history has tended to be rewritten about Jones and Mackay, so I'm not alone in thinking that. I've never suggested that Jones wasn't a good manager for us. For me he was ultimately a frustrating one. Flat track bullies was a phrase I remember TOBW using. Fantastic when conditions suited us. Struggled if things didn't go to plan and we didn't know how to change things.
I don’t buy into this Malky had an inferior team at all. Warnock yes. Malky, no way. He has plenty to spend in the promotion season. Even the freebies he brought in were obviously signed by us because we were offering the best wages.
He also had the benefit of some of Jones best signings in Whittingham, Marshall and Hudson.
Jones had to wheel and deal far more than Malky ever did.
Also, Jones has a good team in 10/11 but the squad was weak. Koumas had his problems and barely featured and when injuries started racking up we had to make do with loan signings like J Lloyd Samuel and Stephen Bywater.
Finally, no credit is given to Blackpool for that play off win. They were fantastic going forward on the day and were a bloody good side in the 2nd half of that season. Very unlucky not to stay up. Certainly gave it a better go than either of our attempts.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
headlight
The title of this thread by TLG is "a dreadful team to watch"
My advice to TLG is as watching Cardiff is upsetting you so much then don"t watch them.
I think that that way you will be much happier :thumbup:
I'm a fan of Cardiff City and I also think we're a dreadful team to watch. It's not upsetting, it's just a shame and I look forward to it changing. I'm not going to stop going because a football day out is a lot more than just the 90 minutes on the pitch, it's about seeing your friends and having a laugh. My advice to you is to stop taking it so personally when someone says that your team isn't perfect :thumbup:
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
Ah. A good old fashioned 7 pager consisting of 75% waffle and 25% decent reading material.
For what it’s worth, I agree with the OPs summary of Fridays game, and Hartleys opinions on Jones.
I’ve also never encountered a more tunnel visioned happy clapper than dml1954.
If we lost 10-0 at home without a shot on target, he’d find a positive!
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
That echoes what I heard whenever I've talked to people about City in recent weeks - people aren't enjoying watching us. Can i ask those who don't agree with the OP and subsequent ones along the same lines whether they do so because they are enjoying watching us play or is out of some sort of sense of loyalty, because I've not spoken to anyone who falls into the first of those categories yet.
So, given the lack of answers to my question, can I assume that no one on here is enjoying the way we are playing this season?
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
I don’t buy into this Malky had an inferior team at all. Warnock yes. Malky, no way. He has plenty to spend in the promotion season. Even the freebies he brought in were obviously signed by us because we were offering the best wages.
He also had the benefit of some of Jones best signings in Whittingham, Marshall and Hudson.
Jones had to wheel and deal far more than Malky ever did.
Also, Jones has a good team in 10/11 but the squad was weak. Koumas had his problems and barely featured and when injuries started racking up we had to make do with loan signings like J Lloyd Samuel and Stephen Bywater.
Finally, no credit is given to Blackpool for that play off win. They were fantastic going forward on the day and were a bloody good side in the 2nd half of that season. Very unlucky not to stay up. Certainly gave it a better go than either of our attempts.
We'll agree to disagree on Blackpool. Our tactics that day hindered us by not having a plan B for Bothroyd. In the same way as we'll never know what would have happened against Portsmouth had Ramsey started, we'll never know what would have happened had Jones not thought Kelvin Etuhu was a target man. What is certain is that Etuhu was dreadful in the position he was asked to play.
How many first team players did Jones leave Malky? Imagine had we kept Bothroyd and Chopra (though by the end of that season Chopra was a busted flush).
Anyway, I can't be arsed debating all of this yet again. We have different views. I disagree with yours.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
William Treseder
Ah. A good old fashioned 7 pager consisting of 75% waffle and 25% decent reading material.
Generally agree.
Ignoring the interlopers, I think everyone needs to accept we are all Bluebirds (to a greater or lesser degree) otherwise why would we even be on here? Critiquing the style of play is not in any way disloyal or traitorous. If there weren't different opinions what would be the point of the board? Mostly, I think folks who express opinions that critique the team are expressing a frustration that we are not better and have a desire for us to be so. There is no malice behind it. The ridiculously silly taunts from certain people about disloyalty are totally misplaced.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
So, given the lack of answers to my question, can I assume that no one on here is enjoying the way we are playing this season?
For a while now I feel almost as though I'm on auto-pilot when it comes to the City. For the past 3 seasons I have seriously considered not renewing my season ticket but my wife has persuaded me to do so. Make of that what you will :hehe: . The reasons for my hesitation have been because of the way that the game has changed over the years - not necessarily in what happens on the field but what has happened off it. In particular I find it difficult to reconcile the way that money dominates football with my views on life in general (I won't elaborate). Linked to that are the constant fixture changes. I'm old school Saturday 3pm. I hate to admit it, but the way the way we play becomes largely irrelevant come kick off time. That is hypocritical I know, but winning is what makes me happy on my journey home after the game. Loyalty it is then. :frown:
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
How many first team players did Jones leave Malky? Imagine had we kept Bothroyd and Chopra (though by the end of that season Chopra was a busted flush).
I wish Warnock would leave our next manager the same
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
Grievous Angel
For a while now I feel almost as though I'm on auto-pilot when it comes to the City. For the past 3 seasons I have seriously considered not renewing my season ticket but my wife has persuaded me to do so. Make of that what you will :hehe: . The reasons for my hesitation have been because of the way that the game has changed over the years - not necessarily in what happens on the field but what has happened off it. In particular I find it difficult to reconcile the way that money dominates football with my views on life in general (I won't elaborate). Linked to that are the constant fixture changes. I'm old school Saturday 3pm. I hate to admit it, but the way the way we play becomes largely irrelevant come kick off time. That is hypocritical I know, but winning is what makes me happy on my journey home after the game. Loyalty it is then. :frown:
I think your conclusion is fair enough. I assume many on here would be the same. I can honestly say that I'm not.
I enjoy seeing players with technical ability and I'd love to see players in a blue shirt and think wow did you see that?
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
az city
Generally agree.
Ignoring the interlopers, I think everyone needs to accept we are all Bluebirds (to a greater or lesser degree) otherwise why would we even be on here? Critiquing the style of play is not in any way disloyal or traitorous. If there weren't different opinions what would be the point of the board? Mostly, I think folks who express opinions that critique the team are expressing a frustration that we are not better and have a desire for us to be so. There is no malice behind it. The ridiculously silly taunts from certain people about disloyalty are totally misplaced.
What a great post. The fans that are critical do care.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
We'll agree to disagree on Blackpool. Our tactics that day hindered us by not having a plan B for Bothroyd. In the same way as we'll never know what would have happened against Portsmouth had Ramsey started, we'll never know what would have happened had Jones not thought Kelvin Etuhu was a target man. What is certain is that Etuhu was dreadful in the position he was asked to play.
How many first team players did Jones leave Malky? Imagine had we kept Bothroyd and Chopra (though by the end of that season Chopra was a busted flush).
Anyway, I can't be arsed debating all of this yet again. We have different views. I disagree with yours.
Hey, you’re the one bringing up previous managers and asking the questions, Eric.
If you don’t want to debate it fine, I’m happy to agree to disagree, but why ask questions and then say you can’t be arsed to debate it?
I’m going to answer the questions anyway.
He left him 8 senior pros I believe, 6 or 7 of whom were regular first team starters, certainly the back bone of defence and midfield, and the other a reserve keeper, although calling Tom Heaton a reserve is harsh. Sadly Tan didn’t give Jones the funds to buy players that he gave Malky and he had to DJ therefore had to rely on a lot of loans.
3 of these 8 players - Marshall, Hudson and Whitts - were some of the best players in the championship in their position. Therefore I don’t buy into this poor Malky he only had 8 players. In some ways that’s a new managers dream. Most of those 8 were starters and he can add his players to the squad. A lot of the crap and dead wood that a new manager inevitably wants to get rid of had been removed from the club. He was given adequate funds to bring his own players in, be it through transfers or signing on fee by signing up decent players who had let their contracts run down.
It would have been nice if Bothroyd or Chopra were still at the club. Well, Bothroyd maybe, I don’t think Malky would have put up with Chopras antics. That was one of DJs downfalls, gave the players too much rope to hang themselves.
Besides, Bothroyd and Chopra were both successful Jones signings that he had to wheel and deal (something he was very good at in his time here, that is undeniable) and so it was up to Malky to do the same for positions he needed to fill.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
So, given the lack of answers to my question, can I assume that no one on here is enjoying the way we are playing this season?
No you can't. I'm loving it because I know it'll work better than anyone here seems to think and I can see our boys growing in stature as the defects appear in the naive football of Fulham and Leeds.
Also, if Cardiff City start playing on pogo sticks I'll still back them up, so I'll admit that I'm biased, which I'd hope others would be too.
In fairness, I probably look at football and no doubt many other things in a very different way to most people here. I'm all about strategy and using whatever resources are available to achieve seemingly difficult or impossible results , and it's something I've been doing successfully for a very long time. That's why I appreciate the genius of Sir Neil and his northern buffoon disguise, taking the eye of the opponent off what he's up to with apparent little follies and irrelevances whilst quietly pursuing his aims in a very serious way.
He's got the mind of a very effective general or a chess master, and if anyone fails to notice that then his diversion tactics are working very well .
I'll make another very frank admission in fairness to you. I don't really give a **** about football in general. I currently live close to several premiership teams and at one time I had a flat within maybe 200 yards of Barcelona's stadium, but I never watched them. I'm only interested in football as a medium in which Cardiff City operate. It's the particular battleground they're on, and the beautiful art of it is to master that ground in the face of superior forces.
In short, I'd rather see them win than see tricks or exhibitions of skill, and I admire hard work , application and winning strategy far more than I do the "art of the game ".
Now, that doesn't mean that I can't appreciate pretty football as long as it's being done by someone else, but it's for entertainment purposes only and I don't have a stake in it. To paraphrase Bill Shankly , Cardiff City is MUCH more important than that.
I remember the old Colliers who worked like dogs to pay for my education and who kept faith through all the crap with the impossible dream that their kids could compete with the best in the world and that one day Cardiff City would be back playing the top teams and besting them.
How do you evaluate or describe the cumulative hopes and dreams of those men and their hard lives ? Don't think you can, but you can feel it in the air sometimes when we win and vindicate their grim determination and hope.
I digress, because that goes further than football, but again, yes, I love the way we're playing because we're starting to get it right again and we're getting ready to punch above our weight some more , smashing irritatingly on the door of the rich teams with our
" 19th century football " and using what we've got rather than what we might want to have to write our names on the sands of time.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
So, given the lack of answers to my question, can I assume that no one on here is enjoying the way we are playing this season?
I haven't enjoyed it. Even the wins have been pedestrian. However, it doesn't mean I'm turning on the team or stabbing anyone in the back.
I don't understand what's so "negative" about being upset when your team isn't playing very well. I want us to win first and foremost, but I'd like us to be good. And I'd like us to be respected.
There are a lot of people trying to turn this thread around with a "well, what about Fulham?" approach. Well, if Fulham are really that bad, (and I do think they're underachieving terribly) surely, the fact that we couldn't beat them when they were down to ten men can only mean that Cardiff have failed on some level.
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
No you can't. I'm loving it because I know it'll work better than anyone here seems to think and I can see our boys growing in stature as the defects appear in the naive football of Fulham and Leeds.
Also, if Cardiff City start playing on pogo sticks I'll still back them up, so I'll admit that I'm biased, which I'd hope others would be too.
In fairness, I probably look at football and no doubt many other things in a very different way to most people here. I'm all about strategy and using whatever resources are available to achieve seemingly difficult or impossible results , and it's something I've been doing successfully for a very long time. That's why I appreciate the genius of Sir Neil and his northern buffoon disguise, taking the eye of the opponent off what he's up to with apparent little follies and irrelevances whilst quietly pursuing his aims in a very serious way.
He's got the mind of a very effective general or a chess master, and if anyone fails to notice that then his diversion tactics are working very well .
I'll make another very frank admission in fairness to you. I don't really give a **** about football in general. I currently live close to several premiership teams and at one time I had a flat within maybe 200 yards of Barcelona's stadium, but I never watched them. I'm only interested in football as a medium in which Cardiff City operate. It's the particular battleground they're on, and the beautiful art of it is to master that ground in the face of superior forces.
In short, I'd rather see them win than see tricks or exhibitions of skill, and I admire hard work , application and winning strategy far more than I do the "art of the game ".
Now, that doesn't mean that I can't appreciate pretty football as long as it's being done by someone else, but it's for entertainment purposes only and I don't have a stake in it. To paraphrase Bill Shankly , Cardiff City is MUCH more important than that.
I remember the old Colliers who worked like dogs to pay for my education and who kept faith through all the crap with the impossible dream that their kids could compete with the best in the world and that one day Cardiff City would be back playing the top teams and besting them.
How do you evaluate or describe the cumulative hopes and dreams of those men and their hard lives ? Don't think you can, but you can feel it in the air sometimes when we win and vindicate their grim determination and hope.
I digress, because that goes further than football, but again, yes, I love the way we're playing because we're starting to get it right again and we're getting ready to punch above our weight some more , smashing irritatingly on the door of the rich teams with our
" 19th century football " and using what we've got rather than what we might want to have to write our names on the sands of time.
Have I seen you performing in the Glee club before?
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
No, but you may have seen me on TV
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
No, but you may have seen me on TV
Probably that annoying twat on the Go Compare advert
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
No, but you may have seen me on TV
Obviously nothing football related :thumbup:
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
No, hard to think of anything football related
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Re: A dreadful team to watch
I've been on talksport radio, but not about football