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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
The trial was not if the Colston statue was offensive
It was was did they commit criminal damage, which as they did not dispute the roles they had played in pulling down the statue and throwing it in the River Avon ( which of course was criminal damage ) seems the trial was a bit of a farce
The defence arguing what they did was justified because they thought the statue was offensive isn't really defence for criminal damage
Jake Skuse ( one of the guys ) said "knew he was in the right" and that it was "what the people of Bristol wanted".
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
The trial was not if the Colston statue was offensive
It was was did they commit criminal damage, which as they did not dispute the roles they had played in pulling down the statue and throwing it in the River Avon ( which of course was criminal damage ) seems the trial was a bit of a farce
The defence arguing what they did was justified because they thought the statue was offensive isn't really defence for criminal damage
Jake Skuse ( one of the guys ) said "knew he was in the right" and that it was "what the people of Bristol wanted".
Correct verdict. Had it been a statue of a paedophile would community feelings not have taken into consideration? I think the mistake was taking this to court in the first place. The sensible course of action would have been to have had a community discussion about the status of these artifacts and what should be done about them.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Correct verdict. Had it been a statue of a paedophile would community feelings not have taken into consideration? I think the mistake was taking this to court in the first place. The sensible course of action would have been to have had a community discussion about the status of these artifacts and what should be done about them.
if it was a statue of a paedophile and it was pulled down by a mob, would that have been criminal damage, yes
the fact that the statue was offensive was not on trial, the trail was did criminal damage take place
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Can’t believe Matt wants statues of peadophiles erected, perverse.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
‘Personally don't like it’, in this day and age who’d personally like it:shrug: Just because stuff like dog shite was accepted on our streets in the past doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be cleaned up now.
James Wales is always talking about nuance, and how matters are complex...Then he boils this down to whether people like or don't like the statue. Even Newsround would go deeper than that :hehe:
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
slavery is bad , islam at the time of colston was more involved in slavery than the west therefore islam bad
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
+ the native hipster
slavery is bad , islam at the time of colston was more involved in slavery than the west therefore islam bad
Are you the same poster who thinks whipping up race hate is truly abhorrent?
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
if it was a statue of a paedophile and it was pulled down by a mob, would that have been criminal damage, yes
the fact that the statue was offensive was not on trial, the trail was did criminal damage take place
Thank goodness the law doesn't work that way.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Thank goodness the law doesn't work that way.
Not at the moment maybe but fear not, Priti is coming along soon to sort that out with prison tariffs potentially double that than for rape.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Not at the moment maybe but fear not, Priti is coming along soon to sort that out with prison tariffs potentially double that than for rape.
Yes it's chilling, Priti would not look out of place in jackboots.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Yes it's chilling, Priti would not look out of place in jackboots.
I swear you have a fetish for Priti Patel. You always seem to be picturing her in an array of exotic outfits and scenarios.
She's an attractive and dominant lady. Go for it.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
‘Personally don't like it’, in this day and age who’d personally like it:shrug: Just because stuff like dog shite was accepted on our streets in the past doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be cleaned up now.
Ahh white dog poo, kids these days don't know they're born.
It sounds as though the local people had been trying to get this statue removed for years through the official channels but the local authority did nothing. The next step was to forcibly remove it (and rightly so in my opinion). These protesters could be some of the last to be found not guilty of this kind of thing once the new Policing Bill passes into law, it sounds like a horrific attack on our civil liberties.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Are you the same poster who thinks whipping up race hate is truly abhorrent?
yes, what part of my statement evokes hate? if there is white guilt then there is islamic guilt ,ashanti guilt ect
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Me neither, for me this is the right verdict.
This is not rewriting history, it's more a question of a community declaring what they find offensive and thereby ensuring the removal of the offending item away from general view. By all means put it in a museum where it belongs.
I definitely would not have wanted the statue to have been destroyed because it tells a story of a mindset long ago and it should be recognised as an important historical artefact. However that story should be available to be explored with its own narrative in a place where people make the conscious choice to learn about it. Having it on public display in a city centre for all and sundry to see is not right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Edward_Colston
The graffiti covered statue was on display (horizontal) in a Bristol museum for 3 months over the summer - with a full description of Colston's life and career, and the history of the statue.
I think there are discussions about a more permanent display - in a context that will allow education and discussion about the history and role of the Atlantic slave trade, rather than endorsing the Victorian celebration of a slaver.
In Liverpool a lot of the street names that celebrate slavers have been retained, but with information plaques to give the history - many of them done by or with local communities.
That is reclaiming history - not re-writing it in the sense of airbrushing it out.
Well done the jury!
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I swear you have a fetish for Priti Patel. You always seem to be picturing her in an array of exotic outfits and scenarios.
She's an attractive and dominant lady. Go for it.
If I came across Priti Patel I would swear I can assure you.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Edward_Colston
The graffiti covered statue was on display (horizontal) in a Bristol museum for 3 months over the summer - with a full description of Colston's life and career, and the history of the statue.
I think there are discussions about a more permanent display - in a context that will allow education and discussion about the history and role of the Atlantic slave trade, rather than endorsing the Victorian celebration of a slaver.
In Liverpool a lot of the street names that celebrate slavers have been retained, but with information plaques to give the history - many of them done by or with local communities.
That is reclaiming history - not re-writing it in the sense of airbrushing it out.
Well done the jury!
Absolutely right John. Slowly but ever so surely people are becoming enlightened. (Note I avoided using the word "woke" for fear it would enrage our gammon friends.)
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raymond Holt
Ahh white dog poo, kids these days don't know they're born.
It sounds as though the local people had been trying to get this statue removed for years through the official channels but the local authority did nothing. The next step was to forcibly remove it (and rightly so in my opinion). These protesters could be some of the last to be found not guilty of this kind of thing once the new Policing Bill passes into law, it sounds like a horrific attack on our civil liberties.
Yes this is the worry though most would agree that you cannot have vigilantes taking the law into their own hands even if it is, as in this case, a just cause.
As foxy used to say "Power to the people!"
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Milo Ponsford, Sage Willoughby, Rhian Graham and Jake Skuse.
I'm not saying they're made up names, but if I was making up names they would look like these.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Why?
Because the defence was that they didn't commit a crime as the statue was owned by the people of Bristol so as citizens of the city it was theirs to do with what they wanted. One of them living in Hampshire doesn't support that defence.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
Because the defence was that they didn't commit a crime as the statue was owned by the people of Bristol so as citizens of the city it was theirs to do with what they wanted. One of them living in Hampshire doesn't support that defence.
Not withstanding whatever defence Ponsford's barrister put up that the jury believed, this Daily Mail hit piece has him working as a carpenter living in a motorhome in Bristol, so Hampshire may be his registered address but not his place of residence.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-vandals.html
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quite an image that. It's only 8.30am.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
If I came across Priti Patel I would swear I can assure you.
Quite an image that..it's only 8.30am
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Milo Ponsford, Sage Willoughby, Rhian Graham and Jake Skuse.
I'm not saying they're made up names, but if I was making up names they would look like these.
If Viz were gonna do a piece on middle class left-wing activists they couldn't have done any better.
Disappointing no Tabitha was involved.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
If Viz were gonna do a piece on middle class left-wing activists they couldn't have done any better.
Disappointing no Tabitha was involved.
Milo and Jake are 2 of the Tweenies characters. It's such a pity that Bella and Fizz weren't in front of the judge aswell.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
If Viz were gonna do a piece on middle class left-wing activists they couldn't have done any better.
Disappointing no Tabitha was involved.
Perversely it would be more accurate than anything printed in the Daily Mail :wink:
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
I don’t think the airbrushing of past events has been recent, you just need to observe what’s around you and marvel at Old Tech to realise that.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
Yes this is the worry though most would agree that you cannot have vigilantes taking the law into their own hands even if it is, as in this case, a just cause.
As foxy used to say "Power to the people!"
Are you his girlfriend’s mother?
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
Are you his girlfriend’s mother?
:thumbup:
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Quite an image that. It's only 8.30am
so much for the inclusivity of life ,guess its selective inclusivity for some
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
+ the native hipster
yes, what part of my statement evokes hate? if there is white guilt then there is islamic guilt ,ashanti guilt ect
Probably the bit where you suggested that all of Islam is bad because some Muslims were involved in slavery. I don't think anyone's said that all white people are bad because Colston was a slave trader have they? I think everybody on the thread is in agreement that you know, slavery is bad, and the debate is whether a criminal act is still a criminal act if it's done for the right reasons.
Not sure why you've decided to simplify it to the level of a 15 year old trying to piss his parents off at the dinner table but hey ho, whatever makes you happy
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
so much for the inclusivity of life ,guess its selective inclusivity for some
Anyone? :shrug:
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
so much for the inclusivity of life ,guess its selective inclusivity for some
Inclusive if you're good, exclusive if you're evil....simples.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
Probably the bit where you suggested that all of Islam is bad because some Muslims were involved in slavery. I don't think anyone's said that all white people are bad because Colston was a slave trader have they? I think everybody on the thread is in agreement that you know, slavery is bad, and the debate is whether a criminal act is still a criminal act if it's done for the right reasons.
Not sure why you've decided to simplify it to the level of a 15 year old trying to piss his parents off at the dinner table but hey ho, whatever makes you happy
Perhaps he is a 15 year old!
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Perhaps he is a 15 year old!
He does sound like one, but still it's not even dinnertime :hehe:
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
Yes this is the worry though most would agree that you cannot have vigilantes taking the law into their own hands even if it is, as in this case, a just cause.
As foxy used to say "Power to the people!"
Good old Foxy 🦊
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
He does sound like one, but still it's not even dinnertime :hehe:
Mummy I want my brekky; I'm gonna cry and cry and cry!
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Not withstanding whatever defence Ponsford's barrister put up that the jury believed, this Daily Mail hit piece has him working as a carpenter living in a motorhome in Bristol, so Hampshire may be his registered address but not his place of residence.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-vandals.html
The worrying thing is that the statue has been put on trial and not the defendants.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
The worrying thing is that the statue has been put on trial and not the defendants.
You're joking surely? That's the most beneficial outcome of all of this. I see that nice Mr Farage is spouting vehemently against this verdict so there can't be much wrong with it. He'll be calling for judges to be politically selected next.
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
You're joking surely? That's the most beneficial outcome of all of this. I see that nice Mr Farage is spouting vehemently against this verdict so there can't be much wrong with it. He'll be calling for judges to be politically selected next.
Hmmm, whatever it views on it all, quite clearly its the statue that has been on trial. They tore down a piece of historic public art and threw it in the river. If you did that to the statue of Aneurin Bevan or Bute or anyone else you wouldn't get away with it
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Re: Wasn’t expecting that verdict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Hmmm, whatever it views on it all, quite clearly its the statue that has been on trial. They tore down a piece of historic public art and threw it in the river. If you did that to the statue of Aneurin Bevan or Bute or anyone else you wouldn't get away with it
I felt that way when they pulled down the statue of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. That's a piece of Art, i was thinking.