It does make you wonder doesn't it, when other teams trust their youngsters.....Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
That’s why Bulut wanted Ashford and Joel Colwill out of the first team squad as soon as possible
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It does make you wonder doesn't it, when other teams trust their youngsters.....That’s why Bulut wanted Ashford and Joel Colwill out of the first team squad as soon as possible
That explains it!That’s why Bulut wanted Ashford and Joel Colwill out of the first team squad as soon as possible
At a Q&A session at CCS early in the season Erol Bulut made no bones about the fact that he had taken the job at Cardiff City because he wanted to make a name for himself and get on in English football management. If that's his motivation then short termism may well be the reason behind his signing players and team selection. With Ashford and Colwill Minor now sent back to the U21s am I being overly concerned ?
Bulut’s not tended to stay anywhere too long in his managerial career.
Slade was in a similar position here, I remember TOBW fuming at him for using Gabbidon instead of Tom James off the bench at one point, but with a contract running down I guess it's understandable when managers think short-term in that situation.
The extensions given to McCarthy and Morison gave them more of a licence to experiment but you'd be hard pressed to suggest that results or performances improved as a result and a lot of those lads haven't exactly demanded more Championship appearances with their progress since. I'm sure Morison would've taken King on loan to Sutton in January if he'd had the chance but it's interesting that he didn't take anyone from the youth system he knew well, even for a struggling League 2 club.
Maybe best not to read too much into that though, as with the Ashford and mini-Colwill situation. I mentioned earlier in the thread that Bulut had said he wanted them to go out on loan in the transfer window but they both stayed, who knows what's going on there? TOBW suggested the club have kept them here and are putting pressure on Bulut to bring them through. Maybe he's saying that they're not quite ready but he'll start bringing them through when his future isn't dependent on short-term results. He'll get the worst of both worlds if he doesn't turn things around soon but we'll see.
Highlights from yesterday
https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/vide...a-cc2bf408ded3
Cracking win that considering I think they had some first teamers in their side. Cracking goal from Ashford, I'd have him in the first team squad right now. Also, two very good saves from Luthra
All a bit one footed, but what a goal - if there was a player at the wurzels doing things like that, you know he would have played some Championship football for them by now. I’ve said before that we’ve had the better of things in age group games against the wurzels down the years, so how come they’re the ones who’ve made tens of millions of pounds through selling youngsters to Premier League clubs?
The big problem with 'blooding' promising youngsters is that for the last 3 seasons they would be coming into a struggling side with very little quality support around them. Plus two promotion seasons and two PL seasons, there hasn't been much mid-table stability, which is probably the optimum time to give these players a chance..
We were safe from the drop about six weeks before the season ended two years ago, there was plenty of time then to give youth a chance - I can remember Denhamgetting a few games, but there could have been more youngsters given a chance at that time.
Denham, Bagan, Colwill, Davies and King got games. Harris and Watters were 23 and he had Drameh, Doyle and Doughty there too so it was a young side to be fair.
I'd hoped Morison would bring his youngsters in when he first got the job but he obviously didn't think they were ready, good enough or whatever. He knew them better than anyone so it was an eye-opener.
He started Evans in his first two games but they were his only league appearances for him, he didn't play Bowen, didn't play Bagan until Doughty's injury but obviously didn't fancy him or Denham enough to persevere with them. He gave Zimba a start then sent him on loan. He played Colwill but never really seemed sure about him. He rated King but sent him on loan. I'm sure he was looking to use Isaak Davies the following season but the injury at Derby ruled that out.
As I said to Enoch, he hasn't come back for any of the youth players he knew well (apart from Leahy at Hornchurch). I wanted to believe we had a Championship side in waiting coming through when Bellamy's team won their league but Morison thought differently. And correctly it seems.
I would too. Both goals were good, but especially the 2nd one.
I was just looking at the club team pages to check shirt numbers (after Horvath wore a number 12 shirt at The Hawthornes in solidarity with Daryl Dike - wanted to double check he has taken the No 1 shirt).
I notice the first team pages have been revised again and have now got three u21s included: Luthra (28), Turner (41) who have both been showing for a while, and now Raheem Conte (36) as well.
Conte wasn't there last time I looked (last week). Joel Colwill isn't there either (I think he was for a while) nor any other u21s like Ashford who have already appeared on the bench.
Does that mean Conte is seen as a first team midfield option for the rest of the season - or is it just a random edit. If it is deliberate, what do regular u21 watchers think? I only ever see them in highlight packages so don't have much to go on.
He was ok yesterday, but others caught the eye more.
Conte was on the bench for a recent first team game (Plymouth?). That came as a surprise to me because he’s never struck me as someone who was close to getting into a first team squad.m
It's crazy isn't it, the amount they've made from selling players they've developed compared with the amount haven't.
Ashford and Colwill jr should both be regularly on the bench, especially now we can name 9 subs, and should be getting at least 10/15 minutes at the end of games.
All of the players you mention at the start were given debuts by other managers rather than Morison apart from King and Denham and I was answering the charge that there have not been any opportunities to give young players games in lower pressure situations in recent years. There was an opportunity at the end of 21/22 when we had a run of about six matches when the clock was just ticking down on the season - having been humiliated at home by Swansea in the last game with anything riding on it of that campaign, Morison, largely, stuck with the “tried and tasted” and our results were pretty dreadful, so a chance to learn about some younger players was lost.
The argument that we’ve never had the chance to pick youngsters in recent years was in response to my comparison between the situation at City and Bristol City - based on what I’ve seen in age group football in matches between the two clubs over a period of twenty years and more, I see nothing to explain fully why they consistently produce young players that are sold to Premier League clubs and we don’t. Although, the fact (and it is a fact, not an opinion) that the wurzels are more willing to give young players a chance in league football has to be a factor as to why.
I'm a bit confused. You said Morison didn't use youngsters at the end of that season, I said he was using five Academy products as well as Denham but apparently they all stopped being young as soon as they'd been given debuts so they don't count. I felt Morison was comfortable enough using youngsters (he wouldn't have brought Drameh, Doyle and Philogene in if he wasn't) but he just didn't rate most of ours.
Mick played them, Morison played them but results weren't great and they didn't demand a first team spot. We gave them a chance, they didn't take it, what then? Play the lesser youngsters and hope they do better or keep playing them through thick and thin and hope they improve? How's that going with Etete? How happy are posters on here that the club are standing by a youngster in his case (he's still younger than Isaak Davies last time I looked)?
I don't know enough about Bristol City to comment on them. It's certainly odd we seem on even terms when we play them at that level yet they produce more first teamers. But which of our youngsters in recent years would've gone for £25m if they'd been through their system do you think?
A second game this week for the under 21s when they face Colchester at Leckwith this afternoon - kick off is a 2 and the game will be streamed as usual.
Wonder why we are in our away colours at home...?
I was assuming Colchester turned up in their blue and white stripes until the camera panned out to show them. Awfully young City team - Joel Colwill and Ashford must be on the way to Norwich with the first team, someone’s got to get the half time oranges ready after all.
Wasn't King given his debut by McCarthy against Boro? Think Morison gave debuts to Denham, Zimba, Davies and Semenyo. What was particularly egregious about that run in 21/22 was the fact we knew certain players were leaving but he kept playing them
The fact Morison brought in the likes of Adams and Rinomhota to play passing football should tell you all you need to know about his ability as a manager...
Incredibily, Mick has given chances to loads of young players throughout his career. Morison also knew Colwill had something and played a midfield of Rinomhota, Sawyers and Wintle.
Re the u21s, Joel Colwill and Ashford aren't in the squad, so I guess they're in the first team squad for tomorrow. Can Ashford be worse than what Etete or Diedhiou have shown so far? They're so far out of their depth themselves, I fail to see how a youngster could be less effective.
I'm all for playing Ashford, he looks a talent, but if we try to play him as an isolated target man like we do with Etete then he isn't going to be any better
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