Latest British Social Survey finds 52% of the Country are non Religious

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Nothing wrong with religious debate, but as a non believer I would say that some of the posts in this thread are borderline bullying from those who are very eager to disprove religious thought and faith. I think that they're shouting at the wrong people, the problem should be with the establishment, the empire so to speak. It's a bit like the Brexit debate, where those who voted out were castigated by many who were quite obviously better educated as being thick and racist. Maybe people need to play the ball a bit more and not just the man.

If someone comes on this message board and states something as being absolute truth it's fair game to challenge such an assertion, whatever the subject matter. I don't think anyone is 'eager to disprove religious thought and faith' as both obviously exist.

[UNDERHILL1927]

Still no answer aboutthe talking snake......

God works in mysterious ways, that's usually the reasoning

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I did answer the question re creatures and voices, and I mentioned (obviously not clearly enough - apologies) that spiritual possession could make any object (like a radio or tv) or any creature speak and do many other things?
Have you never heard of people messing with ouija boards and having objects flying across the room, hearing voices or sudden chills etc etc.....because I have on many occasions.

As for science, sure the ceiling rises, the problem is mankinds arrogance, thinking that he is almost at the point of total knowledge. Remember that in 1969 when man used limited knowledge and technology to get to the moon, it is now said that the computing power available to them was only at the level of a pocket calculator!
And that was only 52 years ago. So consider what we would be using at the high end of NASA and innovation in another 50 years?? Man is way off the levels of knowledge and ability of Almighty God, even if he does own an i-Phone 13 and Sky Glass.

People who hear voices are generally unwell with psychosis and need medical treatment

People who are not and tell others they have seen ghosts etc are con artists

Some nun who says she saw a statue of christ shedding real tears is probably both mentally unwell and a con artist

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I did answer the question re creatures and voices, and I mentioned (obviously not clearly enough - apologies) that spiritual possession could make any object (like a radio or tv) or any creature speak and do many other things?
Have you never heard of people messing with ouija boards and having objects flying across the room, hearing voices or sudden chills etc etc.....because I have on many occasions.

As for science, sure the ceiling rises, the problem is mankinds arrogance, thinking that he is almost at the point of total knowledge. Remember that in 1969 when man used limited knowledge and technology to get to the moon, it is now said that the computing power available to them was only at the level of a pocket calculator!
And that was only 52 years ago. So consider what we would be using at the high end of NASA and innovation in another 50 years?? Man is way off the levels of knowledge and ability of Almighty God, even if he does own an i-Phone 13 and Sky Glass.

Sorry ......you think spiritual possession happens AND this can lead to a TV or radio speak and make things fly around a room ?

That's completely absurd

The Legend Of Hell House , which is about demonic possession, is a very scary film when you watch it as a kid but it's cobblers

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I don't know why you keep banging on about us understanding more about science as time passes. I have already agreed that it is the case. No intelligent person claims that we are anywhere near having total knowledge.

On the other hand, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you are 100% convinced that a talking snake appeared in the Garden of Eden.

He is

It says so in The Bible

So that's it

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

If nothing else you are tenacious.
Let's go back to Genesis 3 and The Fall. The original Hebrew text says Eve was tempted by 'nachash'..a serpent. English editions of the bible called this a snake, but in literal translation it is a serpent.
A serpent, as you know, can be a sly, treacherous person who exploits a position of trust in order to betray it....Satan

However, it may be that a 'snake' did speak and deceive Eve, and you nor I do not understand how because our 'science' has yet to work it out. Don't dismiss it because you don't understand it.

Why hasn't there been any incidents of snakes talking to people since this incredible event?

Or was it a one off 🤔 ?

[lisvaneblue]

Why hasn't there been any incidents of snakes talking to people since this incredible event?

Or was it a one off �� ?

Have you never had a 'sly, treacherous person' try to exploit you?

I certainly have.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Have you never had a 'sly, treacherous person' try to exploit you?

I certainly have.

Of course . And all of us , being human can be sly too.

But people of faith tell us that the Bible is God's word and God says that there was a talking snake ?

So are you saying there was no snake ?

If that's the case , what else in the Bible can be challenged ?

[Baloo]

However, it may be that a 'snake' did speak and deceive Eve, and you nor I do not understand how because our 'science' has yet to work it out. Don't dismiss it because you don't understand it.

Genuine question here as I’m curious about this line of thinking. How are you able you choose to follow one religion over another, or no religion, if your view is not to dismiss anything because it may be you just don’t fully understand it? That would seem at face value to rule no other options out, so why Christianity?

[truthpaste]

Genuine question here as I’m curious about this line of thinking. How are you able you choose to follow one religion over another, or no religion, if your view is not to dismiss anything because it may be you just don’t fully understand it? That would seem at face value to rule no other options out, so why Christianity?

It's a question of testing the Bible and discovering it is trustworthy which will lead you to Christ because the entire Book is centered on Him and His rescue plan for mankind.

No other book in history is written like the Bible, with information that's ultimately 'written' from outside our time and space. In the areas our intellect will allow us to explore, it stands the test of time, knowledge and wisdom.

It doesn't ask us to choose a religion, it provides a diagnosis for the human heart, and then offers the only Solution.

But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners (Romans 5:8)

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Genuine question here as I’m curious about this line of thinking. How are you able you choose to follow one religion over another, or no religion, if your view is not to dismiss anything because it may be you just don’t fully understand it? That would seem at face value to rule no other options out, so why Christianity?

The default situation is that believers take on board the first religion they are exposed to. No intellectual choice is involved.

[truthpaste]

The default situation is that believers take on board the first religion they are exposed to. No intellectual choice is involved.

I see, so it's us that leave our brain at the door? Yet it's you who:

1. Still can't distinguish religion from repentance and knowing Christ as Lord.

2. Thinks all life, including the complex programmes coded into DNA arose by accident. You have about 10 trillion cells in your body, so if you stretched the DNA in all the cells out, end to end, they'd stretch to 744 million miles.

3. Ignores the complexity of life, the human eye is about an inch across has 2 million working parts, and more than 1 million nerve fibers connected to the brain - and 21st Century SCIENCE is NOT able to reconstruct those connections.

An accident!!! So who is ACTUALLY leaving their brain at the door?

[delmbox]

I see, so it's us that leave our brain at the door? Yet it's you who:

3. The human eye is about an inch across has 2 million working parts, and more than 1 million nerve fibers connected to the brain - and 21st Century SCIENCE is NOT able to reconstruct those connections.

Science doesn't need to reconstruct the connections in the exact same way, it's found a different way of doing it. Not perfect yet, but as you said yourself - we went to the moon on a calculator only 52 years ago so replacement eyes will probably be common in another 52 years https://theconversation.com/artifici...eyes-see-79758

[truthpaste]

Science doesn't need to reconstruct the connections in the exact same way, it's found a different way of doing it. Not perfect yet, but as you said yourself - we went to the moon on a calculator only 52 years ago so replacement eyes will probably be common in another 52 years https://theconversation.com/artifici...eyes-see-79758

Assuming future success isn't acheivement. And science is a billion miles from producing DNA, yet you still want there to be no programmer for the incredibly mind blowing complexity within DNA?

[Citizen's Nephew]

Science doesn't need to reconstruct the connections in the exact same way, it's found a different way of doing it. Not perfect yet, but as you said yourself - we went to the moon on a calculator only 52 years ago so replacement eyes will probably be common in another 52 years https://theconversation.com/artifici...eyes-see-79758

Is going to the moon on a calculator like Helen Of Troy launching a thousand ships with her face?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

[QUOTE=truthpaste;5239300]I see, so it's us that leave our brain at the door? Yet it's you who:

1. Still can't distinguish religion from repentance and knowing Christ as Lord.
I have not mentioned 'repentance and knowing Christ as Lord' so I hardly had to distinguish between those concepts and religion. Your comment is highly illogical and rather ridiculous.

2. Thinks all life, including the complex programmes coded into DNA arose by accident. You have about 10 trillion cells in your body, so if you stretched the DNA in all the cells out, end to end, they'd stretch to 744 million miles.
both your religion and your God are mythical.
I didn't actually say that things arose by accident but let's park that for now. Your argument seems to be that because something is complex it has to have been designed by a deity. Very poor intellectal argument, it has to be said.

3. Ignores the complexity of life, the human eye is about an inch across has 2 million working parts, and more than 1 million nerve fibers connected to the brain - and 21st Century SCIENCE is NOT able to reconstruct those connections.
In this thread I have referred to scientific knowledge that we have these days which teach us the most amazing and complex things about life around us (and, ironically, things that the people in the Middle East had no understanding of thousands of years ago). You really don't need to assign comments to me that I didn't make. And your comment about '21st Century SCIENCE' not being able to create things is strange on several levels. It's not science that creates things in the first place. Science (i.e. knowledge that we obtain of the natural world) is what just allowed you to mention some facts about the complexity of the human eye and what assists eye surgeons in carrying out operations -etc so your arguments are a combination of false assumptions, twisted logic and assigning comments to me that I didn't say.

Still, you believe in that talking snake, old fruit.

[UNDERHILL1927]

I see, so it's us that leave our brain at the door? Yet it's you who:

1. Still can't distinguish religion from repentance and knowing Christ as Lord.

2. Thinks all life, including the complex programmes coded into DNA arose by accident. You have about 10 trillion cells in your body, so if you stretched the DNA in all the cells out, end to end, they'd stretch to 744 million miles.

3. Ignores the complexity of life, the human eye is about an inch across has 2 million working parts, and more than 1 million nerve fibers connected to the brain - and 21st Century SCIENCE is NOT able to reconstruct those connections.

An accident!!! So who is ACTUALLY leaving their brain at the door?

All the wonderful things in the world yet this "loving" God gives kids cancer. What an absolute tool he must be. I forgot, all the bad things are Satan's fault. Tosh

[Taunton Blue Genie]

All the wonderful things in the world yet this "loving" God gives kids cancer. What an absolute tool he must be. I forgot, all the bad things are Satan's fault. Tosh

Some people might think that mutating genes that lead to cancer are of a complex nature and only something only a deity could design.....

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Some people might think that mutating genes that lead to cancer are of a complex nature and only something only a deity could design.....

Cells can't mutate by accident, apparently.

[lisvaneblue]

Cells can't mutate by accident, apparently.

Really!!...As you are so evidence based perhaps you would elaborate.

[truthpaste]

Some people might think that mutating genes that lead to cancer are of a complex nature and only something only a deity could design.....

Yet it's an inconsistent argument to wheel out an Almighty being when they all want to blame someone for mutations, disease, disasters etc etc, while the rest of the time God doesn't even exist in their economy?

Rather than them make childlike assumptions that God can't exist because bad things happen, why won't they do the scientific thing and look at the root of why and when those things started to happen?

[Rjk]

Yet it's an inconsistent argument to wheel out an Almighty being when they all want to blame someone for mutations, disease, disasters etc etc, while the rest of the time God doesn't even exist in their economy?

Rather than them make childlike assumptions that God can't exist because bad things happen, why won't they do the scientific thing and look at the root of why and when those things started to happen?

Childlike : randomly occurring cell mutations through a number of well understood mechanisms will occasionally result in a cancerous cell that may begin to replicate itself uncontrollably. The body can usually surpress these mutations but occasionally they become embedded so that they require medical or surgical treatment.

Not Childlike : The big magic man in the sky puts cancers in us because there people who don't believe he exists and that makes him sad. But not sad enough to provide any actual evidence of his existence.

[UNDERHILL1927]

Some people might think that mutating genes that lead to cancer are of a complex nature and only something only a deity could design.....

Indeed....

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I don't understand why parents of kids who die so young or are born severely life limited carry on believing in God ?

I mean surely they are believing in someone who either doesn't do anything about such awful things .......so therefore is not everywhere for everyone all the time ...a fundamental belief in Christianity......or if he is everywhere all the time and all powerful then either he's a nasty git giving kids terminal illness or he's not worthy of all the attention as he's crap at his job

[The Bloop]

I don't understand why parents of kids who die so young or are born severely life limited carry on believing in God ?

I mean surely they are believing in someone who either doesn't do anything about such awful things .......so therefore is not everywhere for everyone all the time ...a fundamental belief in Christianity......or if he is everywhere all the time and all powerful then either he's a nasty git giving kids terminal illness or he's not worthy of all the attention as he's crap at his job

I have a severely disabled daughter and encounter this with people I know in a similar situation.
They choose to stick with their god as it gives them peace of mind. They see their child as a gift and for god to choose them as parents of this child is some of an honour and a privilege.

Cant see it myself.
All I see is continuous stressful, emotionally and physically challenging, bloody hard work. Yes its rewarding, but if any god wants to tell me that my daughters 1 in 25000 chromosome deletion is an honour and a privilege they can fck right off.