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We also have no idea how many children he has, and his own brother can't stand him. He's the worst PM we've ever had, which is some achievement because all of the last 3 have held that title.Originally Posted by rudy gestede
Say what you want about Corbyn, and I don't like the bloke but he actually cares about people. Boris just cares about himself, and he's too dumb to hide it.
He's hardly dangerous. His policies can inject sanity into this country again.
What's the problem with that?
I was a member of the labour party and voted for Corbyn, I still agree with a lot of his policies but I his actions directly following Brexit and how devisive he is made me give up my labour party membership.
I still do not understand the hate he gets in the media and how so many decent people lap it up and believe every word. He would be a million times better for Wales than the Tories and he would be a million times beter for the working class than the Tories.
I used to at least think people who voted for the tories had the excuse that they were good for the economy. But now they've tanked our economy and closed businesses down due to a brexit vote than was only chosen to selfishly stop arguments in their own party and take back the UKIP vote. No one even cared about the EU prior to that. How anyone can still want to vote for this shower is beyond me.
They've ****ed the working class, they've killed people through austerity, they want to privatise the NHS and they have tanked our economy while making private gain from it. Any one who votes for them is a fool.
I thought people voted for no deal though? How can the EU be bad and blamed for a no deal scenario when it’s what everyone wanted all along anyway?
Really?
Over the past few months and even weeks various Ministers have denied that there would be fuel shortages, Food shortages and there was even the matter of Mogg rubbishing a respected doctor for saying there would be medicine shortages, all whilst the document formerly named Base Scenario and published as Worst Case scenario existed.
This is another example of deceit.
So it now says it’s the worst case scenario. Does anybody really trust these guys to know that. They have got most else wrong.
Who in their right minds would have voted for this scenario. Even now when Johnson is pushing even harder for Brexit did it take a law change to get this document published.
For all of you who continually revert to arguments about Democracy I suggest you focus on questions of Truth and Integrity which to me now seem much more important.
It’s mad people keep reverting to the democracy argument while our PM who was elected by 0.1% of the country shuts down parliament by lying to the queen so our elected officials can’t do what’s best for the population.
They’ve had 3 yrs to do something that’s best for the population..
And unfortunately May’s red lines have made it impossible for them to do that.
That’s why nothing has happened our elected officials have been fighting to stop the country being crippled and people literally dying due to a bad deal.
Glad to see you’re ok with our whole democracy being thrown out the window though.
So that goes back to my earlier post. Why are we getting a bad deal from the EU, when all we want is to opt out? The member countries appear to have let an all consuming monster grow, in front of their very eyes, without designing or preparing a plausible and fair way for a member country to give up membership if they so desire.
The bad deal isn’t from the EU the bad deal is from us because we have imposed our own red lines.
The EU are happy for us to have a good deal they just have to protect their current member states like Ireland. Our current red lines would break the GFA and who knows what that could cause.
The EU also have to protect their citizens who currently live in the U.K. which the red lines don’t protect.
The bad deal is nothing to do with the EU, the bad deal is because of the U.K..
The red lies are a bit of a mish mash on both sides.
At the end of the day, The crux of the problem is, the EU has allowed itself to grow and grow, without putting in place, a plausible leave plan, for any member that wants to leave.
No they’re not the red lines are completely put in place by the U.K.
The thing only thing the EU won’t compromise is there needs to be a border somewhere between the U.K. and the EU (Ireland) and even would allow the backstop to negate this until a proper solution could be agreed.
There’s a plausible plan to leave you submit articles 50 after planning what you want and then try and negotiate with the EU.
The U.K. submitted article 50 before it had even decided if it wanted access to the single market. Then wasted 2 years doing nothing, asked for an extension and set in place ridiculous red lines. The eu agreed a deal with the U.K. but then we still weren’t happy with it because we’d need a hard border somewhere between us an EU countries.
What red lines do you think the EU have put in place?
How about the “4 freedoms” Goods,Capital, services and labour? Tying them all up under one banner is always gonna create problems for a member wanting to opt out.
What in have the EU done with regards to those to make it difficult to leave?
You do realise the U.K. were one of the biggest inputs to how the EU is right? The EU isn’t some huge autonomous being, the U.K. was one of the main players in how the EU is. We weren’t forced or coerced into it.
We never voted to go into it either.
And we should never had a referendum to vote ourselves out. We elect MPs to make crucial decisions like this and thank God we’ve still got a few having a go at sorting out this whole sorry mess. The referendum was a hell of a cop out for parliament, they can always fall back on the line ‘Well you voted for it’. But, talking to a few leavers now they didn’t realise that they were voting for this fiasco, I’m sure some of them thought we’d be out at midnight that night.
We voted to join it as a trading bloc and the U.K. were instrumental to making it more than that.
There’s a reason people who fought in the war were More likely to vote remain and that’s because they’ve seen the good it’s done since the Second World War at maintaining peace.
Look at the good it’s done for countries like Poland and Czechia too.
at the very least the referendum should have been more well defined, 3 years on and still no one knows what leave actually means.
The whole thing was rushed to quieten lunatic Tory back benchers and steal the Ukip vote.
It could we'll take several lifetimes. 3 years is nothing given the magnitude of the problem
Why on Earth would anyone in their right mind want to leave?
Nobody knows what leave actually means, because, as I keep saying, there is no protocol or template for any member country to do so.
The whole thing was rushed to quieten lunatic Tory back benchers and steal the Ukip vote.
The public were duped into believing we’d simply just leave, and that would be that.
Personally, I still don’t believe a no deal brexit would be anywhere near as bad as is being made out.
That said, I can understand the panic and worry that this whole shambles is causing.
I’d say the best way forward now, would be for another delay, and an exit strategy drawn up, not by the UK, but by the EU, that is clear, precise, and transparent.
It should then be put to the UK public to either vote for that, or vote for a no deal brexit.
Well, you've got it there. People were duped into believing it would be easy. Farage said we'd get a deal easy (Norway, Canada, our choice), Johnson said we'd save money and could spend it on the NHS, and he also said the Irish border would be unaffected by Brexit. We now know that these two, and many others involved in the campaign, stand to individually gain massive sums of money from Brexit (not to mention that Johnson got the premiership from it).
As you say, people were duped, and that actually makes it pretty hard from a democratic point of view to argue that the result from 2016 should stand without a followup. Democracy is all about the people making choices from information they have.
Ho, ho, ho, it's always everybody else who gets duped and never you, Mr Trump Russia Collusion man
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