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Thread: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

  1. #1
    CardiffCitySince1927
    Guest

    My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    1-0 Wells
    A frustrated Eze drifts back to receive the ball in a deep position. This is the area Lee Tomlin is supposed to be, Right Wing, and we all know what his defensive work rate is like so doesn’t even pressure the man allowing a free ball pver the top. Bamba is caught flat footed and marking loosely causes the header to be buried.
    Fault: Manager (Choosing Tomlin RW), Tomlin, Bamba.

    2-0 Osayi-Samuel
    A couple plasses between two QPR men drag both Bamba and Richards out. Bamba tries to switch man informing the faster Richards to go press while he’ll drop. When Osayi-Samuel runs in behind Bamba fails to keep up with him and hammers home a shot at the near post. This calls into doubt Etheridge, but the real issue is why the hell he has been allowed a free shot in the 6 yard box. The result of the communication may have been as a result of both men not being used to the new system as they have both been injured for long periods under the new manager.
    Fault: Bamba.

    3-0 Osayi-Samuel
    A swift counter attack from a dreadful ball in that allowed Lumley (their Goalkeeper) to collect it without challenge. Richards runs the width of the pitch while Bacuna backs off. Both challenge at the same time. Skipping past them Samuel finishes the chance while Pack hesitates before sliding in to try to block it. Pack took it.
    Fault: Richards, Pack

    4-0 Wells
    A failure to take the ball off the attacker, leaves Cardiff deep on the wide right as he beats 3 men. Allowed into the box by Nelson, the midfield fail to alert the defence that Eze is inbound but he miscues. Flint caught ball watching allows Wells enough room to out jump him and score his second.
    Fault: Flint, Nelson

    5-0 Eze
    A ball into space through the Cardiff defence allows Chair on the wide right. Nelson backs off allowing him into the box as he cuts the ball back for Eze unmarked. Tomlin, his marker is left ambling in the box as he taps home the fifth goal.
    Fault: Nelson, Tomlin

    6-0 Wells
    Poor ball back from Nelson leaves banana-footed Etheridge under pressure. He fluffs his clearance but finds Jazz who gives it to Pack playing the ball to Flint. Flint as if he wants to throw the game away decides to pass the ball back to Wells who cuts back beating a Nelson trying to recover Flint’s mistake. Beating both Nelson and Etheridge inside, he applies a neat finish into the middle of the gaping net.
    Fault: Flint

    Tallies:
    • Manager: 1 (though arguably higher including playing Bamba/Richards)
    • Bamba: 2
    • Tomlin: 2
    • Richards: 1
    • Pack: 1
    • Flint: 2
    • Nelson: 2

  2. #2

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    I donít disagree with a lot of what you say.

    Say that Bamba should be the only one at fault for the first as that ball went a ridiculously long way and should have been dealt with.

    My only thought. We all know how good Tomlin can be. We also know how lazy he can be.

    Heís not going to do a whole lot of the defensive work barring a few pointless chasedowns of the keeper so why do we play him if weíre not getting runners behind the defence.

  3. #3

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    " ... so why do we play him [ie Tomlin] if weíre not getting runners behind the defence."

    Clearly you're unaware that he has scored 3 goals and has 5 or 6 assists. That's why we play him.

    StT.
    <><

  4. #4
    CardiffCitySince1927
    Guest

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    I don’t disagree with a lot of what you say.

    Say that Bamba should be the only one at fault for the first as that ball went a ridiculously long way and should have been dealt with.

    My only thought. We all know how good Tomlin can be. We also know how lazy he can be.

    He’s not going to do a whole lot of the defensive work barring a few pointless chasedowns of the keeper so why do we play him if we’re not getting runners behind the defence.
    True, maybe I am being harsh. But my reasoning for the second was that the reason they broke through was because Osayi-Samuel just outran Bamba.


    I just don’t understand why the hell he was played out wide. He hardly is going to aid with the overlapping full back, nor try to get involved. I would have said this game would have been a decent game to go for a narrow formation with Pack deep, Vaulks/Bacuna either side and Tomlin through the centre

  5. #5

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve the Tea View Post
    " ... so why do we play him [ie Tomlin] if we’re not getting runners behind the defence."

    Clearly you're unaware that he has scored 3 goals and has 5 or 6 assists. That's why we play him.

    StT.
    <><
    Precisely. I wonder how many goals we conceded, in particular during the Dave Jones era, could be put down to a lack of effort from Peter Whittingham? There's probably quite a few, but when a guy scores and creates as much as Whitts did when Jones gave him a free-ish role, you accept that he won't always be as defensively switched on.

    It's also interesting to see how often the OP mentions that our midfield backed off players running with the ball but hasn't interpreted that as a fault.

  6. #6
    CardiffCitySince1927
    Guest

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    It's also interesting to see how often the OP mentions that our midfield backed off players running with the ball but hasn't interpreted that as a fault.
    Sorry, I donít know if you got the point. From memory, and rereading the reasoning I donít think I mentioned midfielders backing off once. I certainly did mention defenders playing in reverse as Nelson and Bacuna. However, Bacuna I believe did the right thing as we were being counterattacked. I didnít blame him for the goal as Richards was the man on the outside, the area Osayi-Samuel broke through. Similarly, I did hold Nelson accountable for the poor defensive display. I cannot hold Harris accountable as no manager will tell a player that should allow the attacker into the box. That was the deciion of Nelson in the moment.

  7. #7

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve the Tea View Post
    " ... so why do we play him [ie Tomlin] if weíre not getting runners behind the defence."

    Clearly you're unaware that he has scored 3 goals and has 5 or 6 assists. That's why we play him.

    StT.
    <><
    Iím a big fan of Tomlin but heís basically making chances for himself.

    Point I was trying to make is he might be the strongest player currently but is he part of the strongest team considering the tactics we employ

  8. #8

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffCitySince1927 View Post
    Sorry, I donít know if you got the point. From memory, and rereading the reasoning I donít think I mentioned midfielders backing off once. I certainly did mention defenders playing in reverse as Nelson and Bacuna. However, Bacuna I believe did the right thing as we were being counterattacked. I didnít blame him for the goal as Richards was the man on the outside, the area Osayi-Samuel broke through. Similarly, I did hold Nelson accountable for the poor defensive display. I cannot hold Harris accountable as no manager will tell a player that should allow the attacker into the box. That was the deciion of Nelson in the moment.
    Fair point. I hadn't intended my response bas a dig btw.

    I think we have an issue with players backing off. I can understand it to a point when we won promotion as our defence were generally strong enough to repel whatever our midfield let through. Unfortunately, our ageing back 4 has been far poorer this season and, for me, our midfield allows our defence to be put under too much pressure.

  9. #9
    CardiffCitySince1927
    Guest

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Fair point. I hadn't intended my response bas a dig btw.

    I think we have an issue with players backing off. I can understand it to a point when we won promotion as our defence were generally strong enough to repel whatever our midfield let through. Unfortunately, our ageing back 4 has been far poorer this season and, for me, our midfield allows our defence to be put under too much pressure.
    I agree, but I believe that’s mostly as a result of Tomlin. This doesn’t mean I want him dropped as he is one of the only creative outlets we have. But playing Tomlin means we have a midfield pairing of the glacial Pack and average speed Bacuna/Ralls.

  10. #10

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    I know there is a Tomlin love in on here but I reckon once/if he gets his new contract he will revert to his normal indolent self. He's a consistent non achiever when he switches clubs so why do people think he will not revert to type?

  11. #11

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffCitySince1927 View Post
    I agree, but I believe that’s mostly as a result of Tomlin. This doesn’t mean I want him dropped as he is one of the only creative outlets we have. But playing Tomlin means we have a midfield pairing of the glacial Pack and average speed Bacuna/Ralls.
    I'm not quite as sure about this. We both like our stats. I looked at Harris's first 4 games with us and the number of tackles we put in as a team dropped. It wasn't particularly impressive under Warnock this season when Tomlin was largely excluded, yet though it dropped, laying the blame mostly with Tomlin I don't feel is quite right, either. Tomlin has put tackles in and I feel there's been a more general lethargy about the side under Harris than there was under Warnock.

    I think the time is right to go with 1 winger, 3 in centre midfield and give Tomlin the other wide position, but a false wide position that gives him the freedom to do what he wants, bit like Jones gave to Whittingham. The reason it didn't work for Jones sometimes is that we didn't have enough graft in the middle.

  12. #12
    CardiffCitySince1927
    Guest

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    I'm not quite as sure about this. We both like our stats. I looked at Harris's first 4 games with us and the number of tackles we put in as a team dropped. It wasn't particularly impressive under Warnock this season when Tomlin was largely excluded, yet though it dropped, laying the blame mostly with Tomlin I don't feel is quite right, either. Tomlin has put tackles in and I feel there's been a more general lethargy about the side under Harris than there was under Warnock.

    I think the time is right to go with 1 winger, 3 in centre midfield and give Tomlin the other wide position, but a false wide position that gives him the freedom to do what he wants, bit like Jones gave to Whittingham. The reason it didn't work for Jones sometimes is that we didn't have enough graft in the middle.
    That is a fair point, there was a general lethargy which may be why he decided to “put them on a rigorous fitness plan”.
    In regards to the tactical idea, that would work with a good full back.
    The fullback, Bennett is too offensive and would be caught out of position. However, he could give Tomlin a consistent outlet. Peltier would be too slow to deal with 2 players, but is defensively smart enough. It would mean it would work against 1 striker formations but fail against 2 striker as the centre half or midfielder would need to help out.

    Asymmetrical formations are becoming more and more common, especially last year as it creates an overload on one side. Also, to combat this teams must also pkay lopsided something which they do not regularly do so the lopsided team has the advantage.

  13. #13

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    I don't get the term "a frustrated Eze" at the beginning of the OP, the match was only nine minutes old at the time, so I doubt if it was frustration that made him come deep for the ball. I watched a live stream of the match and it seemed to me that we started with a back five rather than a three, but, to me, the extra defender gave our right sided member of that defence the freedom to follow QPR's left sided attacker if he dropped back into midfield and, as such, I'd blame Bacuna more than Tomlin for the first goal and Peltier for the fact that Eze was unmarked on the far post for the fourth and fifth goals, That said, I thought Tomlin was poor at QPR and when he came on against Carlisle.

  14. #14

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    I know there is a Tomlin love in on here but I reckon once/if he gets his new contract he will revert to his normal indolent self. He's a consistent non achiever when he switches clubs so why do people think he will not revert to type?
    Maybe heís overcome those demons that have haunted him his whole life.

  15. #15
    CardiffCitySince1927
    Guest

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I don't get the term "a frustrated Eze" at the beginning of the OP, the match was only nine minutes old at the time, so I doubt if it was frustration that made him come deep for the ball. I watched a live stream of the match and it seemed to me that we started with a back five rather than a three, but, to me, the extra defender gave our right sided member of that defence the freedom to follow QPR's left sided attacker if he dropped back into midfield and, as such, I'd blame Bacuna more than Tomlin for the first goal and Peltier for the fact that Eze was unmarked on the far post for the fourth and fifth goals, That said, I thought Tomlin was poor at QPR and when he came on against Carlisle.
    Blaming Bacuna over Tomlin for this goal is a poor blame without reason. If he was in the midfield, I would agree that it would have been Bacuna’s fault for this. But Tomlin played the QPR game at Right Wing, a position which overlaps zonally with the position of left back. Eze usually demonstrates his skill by running the game for QPR and he wasn’t having any luck after being man marked by a Cardiff midfielder for the majority of that first ten minutes. Eze drops back to the halfway line and picks up the ball. Their fullback overlapped so Bacuna picked up the man. What you’ve done is blame Bacuna, a man doing his job.
    As a midfielder, it may not necessarily be one’s job to consistently mark a man at the back post. However, it is your job if you fail to communicate this to the fullback as rather than leaving a free runner back post. Tomlin did not complete this task as Peltier does not pick up his man. The late runner into the box should have been followed by Tomlin as he failed to pass on his man and in both goals can be seen walking into the box as a half-arsed effort to mark the runner.

  16. #16
    CardiffCitySince1927
    Guest

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    Maybe he’s overcome those demons that have haunted him his whole life.
    Because that is more likely.

  17. #17

    Re: My Analysis of the Goals Conceded

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffCitySince1927 View Post
    Because that is more likely.
    Oh well then, thatís that settled.

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