Football - is the bubble about to burst ?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

We all know that clubs post their attendance figures based on ticket sales - City's 21,273 was more likely 15,000 actual attendees - but with that in mind consider how many people actually attended these Championship games this midweek

Hull 10272
QPR 11669
Reading 10088
Blackburn 12343
Millwall 11209
Luton 10008
Fulham 17626 [ inc. 2500 Swansea].

Fulham aside, probably less than 8000 in most of those games. True it was an awful night weatherwise, but folk are getting out of the habit of actually getting out of their chair and going to watch their teams. In the PL it was accepted that games would practically sell out each week but when fans in either division stop buying a ST and just 'cherry pick' the games, I think it will be the start of the decline in attendances for the 1st time in 20 yrs.

TV saturation is bound to be the main contributory factor, but also I believe the football being played is just not exciting enough. The PL especially, hyped up week in week out, but essentially ends up attack v defence for 90 mins. Next season will be interesting. I think a lot of PL ST holders who previously were reluctant to give up there ST in case they couldn't get to the games may well just do that, and pretty much the same with the majority of Championship clubs..

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Take me back to ninian park

[splott parker]

Take me back to ninian park

Dear God no! It was well past it’s sell by date, I dread to think what it would look like now if we hadn’t have moved and indeed where we’d be in the football pyramid. Pissing against walls in an open air toilet in the pouring rain is something I shall never miss. I had nearly 50 years turning up there, loved the early 60s when it was all a new adventure to me, enjoyed the European nights and enjoyed (strange to say ‘enjoyed’) the promotion misses of the late 60s/early 70s. After that it was the odd game that enthralled in many years of shite in a crumbling ground. Thank goodness for the move into the 21st century.

[stevebrickman]

Take me back to ninian park

It was an absolute fecking shithole. We are well rid of it.

[Harry Monk]

Fulham, Chelsea and QPR are all in the same borough, with a population of 185,400, (That's just 40,000 more than Bridgend Borough) they all do pretty well with their crowds. Of course, like City, they all rely on fans from outside the borough to push the numbers up.

[Mr Soul '68]

Fulham, Chelsea and QPR are all in the same borough, with a population of 185,400, (That's just 40,000 more than Bridgend Borough) they all do pretty well with their crowds. Of course, like City, they all rely on fans from outside the borough to push the numbers up.

Hardly anyone from the QPR Fulham, Brentford, Chelsea i.e. West London, supports Chelsea do they? I thought the vast majority of their fans were plastics from outside that West of London Borough. Wasn't it 4-4-2 magazine or maybe it was When Saturday Comes that did an article in the 90s about how Brentford have more season ticket holders than Chelsea that lived in west London?

[lennybluebird]

Would be interesting what average % play for and against for the four main divisions.

[The Lone Gunman]

In a word, no. The football bubble is not about to burst.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

In a word, no. The football bubble is not about to burst.

Financially maybe not. Football as TV 'entertainment for the masses - possibly not, but as a sport watched by paying supporters of the club, I think yes. Sky et al will always get large audiences for Liverpool v Man City, but viewers will turn off form watch other games in half empty, echoing stadia..

[The Lone Gunman]

Financially maybe not. Football as TV 'entertainment for the masses - possibly not, but as a sport watched by paying supporters of the club, I think yes. Sky et al will always get large audiences for Liverpool v Man City, but viewers will turn off form watch other games in half empty, echoing stadia..

City's attendances have levelled out, mainly because the team is pretty boring to watch and the realities of what success at this level actually brings have become apparent. The same is true at many other clubs. It's no big deal. It's the same as it ever was.

Predictions that the football 'bubble' is about to burst are made numerous times every season and that's been the case for decades.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

In a word, no. The football bubble is not about to burst.

Of course it is you clown

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

We all know that clubs post their attendance figures based on ticket sales - City's 21,273 was more likely 15,000 actual attendees - but with that in mind consider how many people actually attended these Championship games this midweek

Hull 10272
QPR 11669
Reading 10088
Blackburn 12343
Millwall 11209
Luton 10008
Fulham 17626 [ inc. 2500 Swansea].

Fulham aside, probably less than 8000 in most of those games. True it was an awful night weatherwise, but folk are getting out of the habit of actually getting out of their chair and going to watch their teams. In the PL it was accepted that games would practically sell out each week but when fans in either division stop buying a ST and just 'cherry pick' the games, I think it will be the start of the decline in attendances for the 1st time in 20 yrs.

TV saturation is bound to be the main contributory factor, but also I believe the football being played is just not exciting enough. The PL especially, hyped up week in week out, but essentially ends up attack v defence for 90 mins. Next season will be interesting. I think a lot of PL ST holders who previously were reluctant to give up there ST in case they couldn't get to the games may well just do that, and pretty much the same with the majority of Championship clubs..

Historically, some of the attendances you quoted are average, or indeed, slightly above their average for those clubs concerned .

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Historically, some of the attendances you quoted are average, or indeed, slightly above their average for those clubs concerned .

They may well be, but I'm suggesting it's the beginning of a trend..

[The Lone Gunman]

They may well be, but I'm suggesting it's the beginning of a trend..

You highlighted Fulham's attendance in midweek (it was actually 1,500 Jacks, not 2,500).

Twenty years ago, in 2000/01, Fulham were promoted to the Premier League after finishing top of the Championship with 101 points.

Their average league attendance in 2000/01 was 14,803.

Their average league attendance this season is 18,181.

The highest average attendance in the Championship in 2000/01 was 21,283 (Birmingham City). This season, nine Championship clubs have a higher average than that.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

You highlighted Fulham's attendance in midweek (it was actually 1,500 Jacks, not 2,500).

Twenty years ago, in 2000/01, Fulham were promoted to the Premier League after finishing top of the Championship with 101 points.

Their average league attendance in 2000/01 was 14,803.

Their average league attendance this season is 18,181.

The highest average attendance in the Championship in 2000/01 was 21,283 (Birmingham City). This season, nine Championship clubs have a higher average than that.

I

[A Quiet Monkfish]

You highlighted Fulham's attendance in midweek (it was actually 1,500 Jacks, not 2,500).

Twenty years ago, in 2000/01, Fulham were promoted to the Premier League after finishing top of the Championship with 101 points.

Their average league attendance in 2000/01 was 14,803.

Their average league attendance this season is 18,181.

The highest average attendance in the Championship in 2000/01 was 21,283 (Birmingham City). This season, nine Championship clubs have a higher average than that.

What part of " I think it will be the start of the decline in attendances for the 1st time in 20 yrs." Didn't you understand ? Secondly the point I made - and did twice - was that people aren't turning up for games more and more, in both the Championship and also now in the PL. When you see large gaps in the stands in the PL games which you haven't seen before, it shows a lot of people are beginning to get 'football fatigue "

[The Lone Gunman]

What part of " I think it will be the start of the decline in attendances for the 1st time in 20 yrs." Didn't you understand ? Secondly the point I made - and did twice - was that people aren't turning up for games more and more, in both the Championship and also now in the PL. When you see large gaps in the stands in the PL games which you haven't seen before, it shows a lot of people are beginning to get 'football fatigue "

I understood what you were saying. I just don't agree with it and don't believe there is any evidence for it either.

Attendances have been declared based on ticket sales rather than the number of people who actually turn up for many, many years. If there is a difference now, I think it's that season tickets have become more attractively priced at many clubs (including Cardiff City). Therefore, there are more season ticket holders than there used to be and such people won't always turn up for games.

I've noticed that's very much in the case in my local, where there are definitely more season ticket holders than ever before and the declared attendances reflect that. However, as we know, plenty don't turn up for every game.

If you look at City's attendances for equivalent Saturday home games at this time of year during the last five Championship campaigns, the figures are as follows:

2014/15 v Wolves = 21,165
2015/16 v Preston = 15,566
2016/17 v Fulham = 15,656
2017/18 v Middlesbrough = 18,720
2019/20 v Brentford = 22,393

Just like 2014/15, when there was an increased number of season ticket holders following relegation from the Premier League, the figure yesterday was larger than average for this time of year. I don't know what the actual physical attendance was yesterday, but it looked to me to be around the 16,000 to 17,000 mark, which would be bigger than 2015/16 and 2016/17, and slightly down on 2017/18 when the side was challenging for automatic promotion.

From my perspective, those figures all look to be about right and don't indicate that this season is one of a decline in attendances. In the Premier League there were more than 52,000 at Newcastle v Burnley yesterday, while the attendance for West Ham v Southampton was just short of 60,000. That doesn't suggest to me that the 'football bubble' is bursting.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

We are going to return to the eighties

There will be a european super league for united , liverpool etc and good fecking riddance to them

And a reorganisation of football in this country below that

It may be two or three years , it may be ten years but it's going to happen

That's capitalism for you , always needs more money to feed its fire

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Financially maybe not. Football as TV 'entertainment for the masses - possibly not, but as a sport watched by paying supporters of the club, I think yes. Sky et al will always get large audiences for Liverpool v Man City, but viewers will turn off form watch other games in half empty, echoing stadia..

Indeed

Look at the empty seats at man city , arsenal etc for top flight games

The premier league clubs were too greedy

Apart from liverpool and united , who have more hangers on than a cows arse , it's a busted flush

West ham , 60000 capacity stadium ? How many seasons do they think the cockney oiks will be filling that for ?

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

They may well be, but I'm suggesting it's the beginning of a trend..

Then maybe it would have been better for you to identify those clubs with significant drops in attendance, to add weight to your theory of a trend..

[Llandaff Blue]

The amount of times this has been said over the last 15 or so years is eye roll worthy. There is no "bubble" to burst.

Your reasoning doesn't make sense, in fact you argued the lower attendances could be down to the weather. Even then our attendances aren't that shocking, we average that when we aren't in the PL or in a promotion race, I imagine it's the same up and down the league.

[CCFCC3PO]

We all know that clubs post their attendance figures based on ticket sales - City's 21,273 was more likely 15,000 actual attendees - but with that in mind consider how many people actually attended these Championship games this midweek

Hull 10272
QPR 11669
Reading 10088
Blackburn 12343
Millwall 11209
Luton 10008
Fulham 17626 [ inc. 2500 Swansea].

Fulham aside, probably less than 8000 in most of those games. True it was an awful night weatherwise, but folk are getting out of the habit of actually getting out of their chair and going to watch their teams. In the PL it was accepted that games would practically sell out each week but when fans in either division stop buying a ST and just 'cherry pick' the games, I think it will be the start of the decline in attendances for the 1st time in 20 yrs.

TV saturation is bound to be the main contributory factor, but also I believe the football being played is just not exciting enough. The PL especially, hyped up week in week out, but essentially ends up attack v defence for 90 mins. Next season will be interesting. I think a lot of PL ST holders who previously were reluctant to give up there ST in case they couldn't get to the games may well just do that, and pretty much the same with the majority of Championship clubs..

TV Saturation has been here for more than a generation. Why is it suddenly an issue? Because you have pre-supposed that some low crowds were even lower just because there is a huge discrepancy between bums on seats and attendance figures at Cardiff?

[Wales-Bales]

The Bundesliga has the best product from the fans perspective. High quality football played in a good atmosphere at a reasonable price.

[LeningradCowboy]

The Bundesliga has the best product from the fans perspective. High quality football played in a good atmosphere at a reasonable price.

And the same team winning the league for the last 7 seasons.

[Wales-Bales]

And the same team winning the league for the last 7 seasons.

They've had some of the best coaches who have taken the game forward and raised the standard of those below them, and only 6 points separate the top 5 teams. Bayern and Leipzig were a different class compared to Chelsea and Spurs in the Champions League, and Klopp & Pep are also students of the high press German game.