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Thread: Coronavirus update

  1. #7561
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    Re: Coronavirus update

    My boy is 20. He phoned up for a vaccination on Friday and had it this morning in Splott.

    Well pleased!

    PS. Should have been in the bay but apparently they had problems this morning but the NHS called up at short notice to rearrange. Well done for that too.

  2. #7562

    Re: Coronavirus update

    My 19 year old vaccinated Friday couple of days after going on reserve list.

  3. #7563

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    As I said, some people are losing their perspective on this.

    .....
    I don't think you've engaged with what I've said, but you might feel I didn't engage with you initially.

    This article is interesting: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/p...-most-20528778

    Given list of issues raised, it's likely that a UK approach to engaging with firebreak or stronger restrictions afterwards would have produced a longer lasting dampening down of virus numbers in Wales but, based on the population numbers in each nation which you raised, it's far more likely that Wales would have been in worse position based on no firebreak and even later second lockdown. I would highlight that not testing those moving back into care homes was a one UK approach and is going to be the most difficult thing to explain in reviews.

    But as you want to focus on the virus itself, I would agree that the virus isn't sentient and that one approach would have made things easier, and at times more effective, but saying the virus doesn't care about who we are, what we are, or our age suggests a skewed understanding on a) how it spreads and b) where it has the worst impact.

  4. #7564

  5. #7565

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Good news....Always seemed likely the vaccines would still work as essentially it’s the same virus albeit slightly mutated again.
    One thing I wonder is it appears to be getting more transmissible every few months, can it get anymore from the original to Kent to Indian? Does it even matter as long as the vaccines and virus operate the same way.....

  6. #7566

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Great news

  7. #7567

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    Great news
    Yes, that sounds very encouraging.

  8. #7568

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    I don't think you've engaged with what I've said, but you might feel I didn't engage with you initially.

    This article is interesting: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/p...-most-20528778

    Given list of issues raised, it's likely that a UK approach to engaging with firebreak or stronger restrictions afterwards would have produced a longer lasting dampening down of virus numbers in Wales but, based on the population numbers in each nation which you raised, it's far more likely that Wales would have been in worse position based on no firebreak and even later second lockdown. I would highlight that not testing those moving back into care homes was a one UK approach and is going to be the most difficult thing to explain in reviews.

    But as you want to focus on the virus itself, I would agree that the virus isn't sentient and that one approach would have made things easier, and at times more effective, but saying the virus doesn't care about who we are, what we are, or our age suggests a skewed understanding on a) how it spreads and b) where it has the worst impact.
    Thank you for the link to the Wales on line. Maybe Wales does have the worse outcomes, I don't know, but if so it's likely to be because of demographic factors more than anything else. You make some points about what may or may not have been happening in Wales because of political decisions, what Im saying is that these make marginal differences to the UK overall and in many instances are done just to be different. Tomorrow 30 people can gather in England. In Wales in the same circumstances 50 people can gather. Two governments looking at the same data and coming to very different decisions. Its just daft and confuses people.
    Then last week our First minister boasting that we have the lowest rates in UK and the best vaccination rates...just politics and unnecessary and not strictly true.

    Regarding the virus, I have a very good understanding of microbiology, having worked in the area for many years, and understand how Covid spreads and it's varying impact on individuals based on degree of exposure, age, individuals overall health and their environment.

  9. #7569

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    Probably the press and lawyers, one trying to sell stories the other odious lot encouraging people to start litigation for everything that goes wrong in their lives.
    Of course it is never ever their own fault for anything. God forbid!!!!
    Would you say, that press and lawyers, are to blame

  10. #7570

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    I think people are losing their perspective on this. However much people argue about politics and apportion blame the truth is that this virus has no respect for rules and regulations, and probably doesn't understand that it is not allowed to cross the Severn Bridge.

    Ok Wales has no direct international flights, but that just means that Welsh people wanting to travel go to Heathrow, Manchester, Birmingham etc..travelling further in UK and mixing with more people en route.

    When Wales travel restrictions were in place the traffic flow across the Severn Bridge was still very heavy, same on the A55.Life goes on and people have to travel to work and on business. And at the end of their journey they meet other people and the virus spreads.

    Personally I think the UK is too small for 4 home nations to play to different rules. Governments, particularly in Wales and Scotland have made this a political blame game.
    I give up. I post something which I think reflects what the scientific community are urging about the Indian variant and people come back attacking the paper carrying the stories because it's "a lefty rag", so I post the same story from a source which has no reputation for being left wing and that gets ignored. Someone then brings up party politics, which I had made no mention of, and I do some research into what the rules are concerning travel to red zone countries like India in Wales compared to other countries in the UK and conclude that whether you think Wales can be blamed in the same way some are seeking to blame the UK Government for not stopping travel to India is very much down to the individual and I'm then told I'm losing perspective

    Seeing as others have brought party politics into this, wouldn't it be fair to say that, in general through 2020, the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish Governments were more cautious in their decision making when it came to things like easing regulations last summer and going into lockdowns in the autumn and around Christmas? Therefore, couldn't it be argued that it was the UK/English Government that was playing by "different rules" and not the other three?

  11. #7571

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Big milestone today allowing restaurants to open.

    It may as well happen - people are not listening to the rules and seem more arbitrary than ever. I went into a packed gym yesterday but I wasn't allowed to fill up my water bottle.

    Beginning of the end I think

  12. #7572
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    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    Would you say, that press and lawyers, are to blame
    I could have sworn that this exchange started with me asking why must someone always be to blame? Didn't you read that bit?

  13. #7573
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    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I give up. I post something which I think reflects what the scientific community are urging about the Indian variant and people come back attacking the paper carrying the stories because it's "a lefty rag",
    Who said it is a left rag? I never saw anyone do that and I don't think the articles deserve dismissal on that basis.

    got it now. Silly comment really it detracts from the argument. I think the G often has some very good articles but I also think that some people pick and choose the ones they like to pass on. But that's only natural I suppose
    Last edited by xsnaggle; 17-05-21 at 06:16. Reason: new information

  14. #7574

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    Big milestone today allowing restaurants to open.

    It may as well happen - people are not listening to the rules and seem more arbitrary than ever. I went into a packed gym yesterday but I wasn't allowed to fill up my water bottle.

    Beginning of the end I think
    Take a bigger bottle maybe, the world will still turn.......

  15. #7575

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I give up. I post something which I think reflects what the scientific community are urging about the Indian variant and people come back attacking the paper carrying the stories because it's "a lefty rag", so I post the same story from a source which has no reputation for being left wing and that gets ignored. Someone then brings up party politics, which I had made no mention of, and I do some research into what the rules are concerning travel to red zone countries like India in Wales compared to other countries in the UK and conclude that whether you think Wales can be blamed in the same way some are seeking to blame the UK Government for not stopping travel to India is very much down to the individual and I'm then told I'm losing perspective

    Seeing as others have brought party politics into this, wouldn't it be fair to say that, in general through 2020, the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish Governments were more cautious in their decision making when it came to things like easing regulations last summer and going into lockdowns in the autumn and around Christmas? Therefore, couldn't it be argued that it was the UK/English Government that was playing by "different rules" and not the other three?


    The English ( UK) Government's actions related to Covid cover 80% approx of the UK population. Wales has a very porous 120 mile long border with England, so whatever England decides has a major effect on the Welsh population. On the big issues we are united UK wide....Hands..Face..Space..Vaccinations..the rest is tinkering around the edges, and being used by Wales and Scotland in particular to make political points.

    As I said in the previous post, from today England allows outdoor meetings of groups up to 30 in number. In Wales we allow it for groups up to 50. It's not logical that 50 can meet in Chepstow but only 30 a few miles away in Lydney.
    As you know I go camping a lot. As recently as last week I could go to any campsite in England and use the communal toilets. In Wales it was not allowed. If you didn't have on board facilities in you camper van, tough luck. These sorts of differences have a big impact on people but defy logic when it comes to protecting the UK from Covid.
    More confusing I could go to a pub in Wales and use the communal toilets, same as England....but not at campsites.

  16. #7576

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    [/B]

    The English ( UK) Government's actions related to Covid cover 80% approx of the UK population. Wales has a very porous 120 mile long border with England, so whatever England decides has a major effect on the Welsh population. On the big issues we are united UK wide....Hands..Face..Space..Vaccinations..the rest is tinkering around the edges, and being used by Wales and Scotland in particular to make political points.

    As I said in the previous post, from today England allows outdoor meetings of groups up to 30 in number. In Wales we allow it for groups up to 50. It's not logical that 50 can meet in Chepstow but only 30 a few miles away in Lydney.
    As you know I go camping a lot. As recently as last week I could go to any campsite in England and use the communal toilets. In Wales it was not allowed. If you didn't have on board facilities in you camper van, tough luck. These sorts of differences have a big impact on people but defy logic when it comes to protecting the UK from Covid.
    More confusing I could go to a pub in Wales and use the communal toilets, same as England....but not at campsites.
    For the Welsh and English quangos it's been more about being different. Whenever the Government has introduced rules on numbers of people mixing, whether inside or outside, the Welsh & Scottish have come up with different numbers and scenarios. It's all supposed to be based on the same science /logic, yet surprise surprise, every single rule change has been implemented differently across the UK.

  17. #7577

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    [/B]

    The English ( UK) Government's actions related to Covid cover 80% approx of the UK population. Wales has a very porous 120 mile long border with England, so whatever England decides has a major effect on the Welsh population. On the big issues we are united UK wide....Hands..Face..Space..Vaccinations..the rest is tinkering around the edges, and being used by Wales and Scotland in particular to make political points.

    As I said in the previous post, from today England allows outdoor meetings of groups up to 30 in number. In Wales we allow it for groups up to 50. It's not logical that 50 can meet in Chepstow but only 30 a few miles away in Lydney.
    As you know I go camping a lot. As recently as last week I could go to any campsite in England and use the communal toilets. In Wales it was not allowed. If you didn't have on board facilities in you camper van, tough luck. These sorts of differences have a big impact on people but defy logic when it comes to protecting the UK from Covid.
    More confusing I could go to a pub in Wales and use the communal toilets, same as England....but not at campsites.
    None of which alters the basic facts of what I posted. We’re talking about four countries and four different Governments, three of which have tended to follow a more cautious path than the other one and yet it is them who are playing by “different rules” - doesn’t that seem illogical?

    To represent the last year and more as being one long example of the Uk/English Government making decisions and then the Welsh/Scottish counterparts doing the opposite just to be contrary is just wrong when you consider how many times the UK Government delayed making inevitable decisions long since taken by Wales and Scotland.

  18. #7578

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    None of which alters the basic facts of what I posted. We’re talking about four countries and four different Governments, three of which have tended to follow a more cautious path than the other one and yet it is them who are playing by “different rules” - doesn’t that seem illogical?

    To represent the last year and more as being one long example of the Uk/English Government making decisions and then the Welsh/Scottish counterparts doing the opposite just to be contrary is just wrong when you consider how many times the UK Government delayed making inevitable decisions long since taken by Wales and Scotland.

    I understand the point you are making but cant agree. Yes we are talking about four different Governments in a UK that is compact, barely 600 miles from one end to the other, is totally connected country to country by roads, rail, air and sea. Additionally it has no borders between each country, people barely notice when they travel across country boundaries. ( except for NI)

    Devolution has seen individual governments do their own thing over the years but when a 'once in a lifetime' pandemic arrives you would think there would be a uniform approach. In the main areas there is.....Face, Space, Vaccines etc, but after that 'confusion' as each does its own tinkering despite following the same science.

    It's confusing, frustrating, and makes it difficult to measure outcomes accurately.

  19. #7579

    Re: Coronavirus update

    There are 4 governments doing their own thing but all of the devolved nations rely heavily on the UK government for most things to do with the pandemic..

    The vaccine selection where the UK government selected well by choosing the correct 6 out of the 58 in development is an example. The regional governments had nothing to do with these arrangements.

    The detailed advice to various industries, the NHS, education and sports is produced by the UK government and reproduced by the regional governments. All this means is that the UK government's advice is changed slightly. Where there are references to England a minor functionary in the Assembly deletes these and replaces England with Wales. That is how the system works.

    In reality the regional governments don't do a lot. Even the vaccine procurement and distribution is organised by the UK government in conjunction with the army, NHS and Kate Bingham's Department.

    The regional governments then apply their anything but England analysis to exert their independence. Fair enough but let's not kid ourselves that the regional governments play anything but a secondary role.

    The Welsh government it is said is being more cautious than in England. Yes. The WAG did the right thing in locking down last September but ruined it all by making the situation far worse by allowing for a free for all after their initial lockdown. Not exactly cautious in my view. The other changes made have been relatively minor and of little consequence.

    Let's face it there is a lot of politicking going on regionally. Several posts congratulate the Welsh government for their role but there is also a case of when things go wrong it's the fault of the Tories and when things go right it's the Labour government doing a better job. That's nonsense.

  20. #7580

    Re: Coronavirus update

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    Thank you for the link to the Wales on line. Maybe Wales does have the worse outcomes, I don't know, but if so it's likely to be because of demographic factors more than anything else. You make some points about what may or may not have been happening in Wales because of political decisions, what Im saying is that these make marginal differences to the UK overall and in many instances are done just to be different. Tomorrow 30 people can gather in England. In Wales in the same circumstances 50 people can gather. Two governments looking at the same data and coming to very different decisions. Its just daft and confuses people.
    Then last week our First minister boasting that we have the lowest rates in UK and the best vaccination rates...just politics and unnecessary and not strictly true.

    Regarding the virus, I have a very good understanding of microbiology, having worked in the area for many years, and understand how Covid spreads and it's varying impact on individuals based on degree of exposure, age, individuals overall health and their environment.
    So much to say and not enough time...

    We don't know whether Boris would have changed his approach if UK was acting as one but it's likely that i) England would have loudest voice as majority of population lives there and ii) if Wales had more closely followed England's approach throughout Wales would have been in a worse position, as would have Scotland, based on different demographics of population.

    There have been petty differences created which don't make sense (different take on what counts as a young person between Scotland and Wales, now crowds outside between Wales and England as you've pointed out in your post); and opportunities missed (we're now waiting for 4 weeks to be able to use the English NHS app for vaccine passports, stronger action after fire-break could have been taken); but also reasons to be happy a different approach was taken (children and outdoor activity recognised as being safer earlier in Scotland, a lower peak in Wales and Scotland during winter despite different demographics); and unhappy when each government acted together (not testing those going into care homes).

    Drakeford and Sturgeon have been vocal about wanting a one UK approach but perhaps that's wanting a one UK approach and closer to what they've seen as being needed rather than what Boris has. Stating that you want one UK approach leads onto some big questions about who gets and who misses out on what they want and that follow up is rarely put to those calling for said one approach.

    Regarding virus, maybe we're saying same thing from different angles. If who, what, where you are changes degree of exposure and impact on you if you catch it then, to me, the virus does care about those things even if it doesn't know it.

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