Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[Feedback]

At the end of the day, this really is what it's about. People are criticising 'my team' too much, and not 'their team'.

I believe we should be criticising all teams, because all teams are culpable and have played their part in this shambles.

[Feedback]

The Stereophonics gig should have been cancelled. Many said it at the time. It was a massive error that probably cost lives.

However it was months ago. The more recent resurgence in the spread of the virus is nothing to do with it.

what do you think the current resurgence is to do with? the new strain being more virulent perhaps? the apparent apathy of people to stay at home? all are factors that have contributed.

if you recall the first lockdown, when you ventured outside it was like a ghost town, then people started venturing out. compare that to lockdown 2 and 3, its almost as if nothing has happened. The streets aren't as busy as normal, but they are busy.

[Heisenberg]

Ahem...

PPE...Thank you the Guardian. They mention UK DHSC, but that body is essentially for England regarding Health. I say again PHW and NHS are the responsible bodies in Wales. Latterly Drakeford has spoken how well Wales did securing PPE to the extent that we helped England out.

Lockdown....Of course we could have locked down earlier but we chose not to. It takes guts and we could have locked down without a furlough scheme in place. It would have traumatic with a lot of people on the dole but we could have done it.

Track and Trace...Wales could have done its own thing, in fact it did I think in Ceredigion and it worked well. Track and trace is not the world beater that was promised but to add to that Wales had real problems getting timely results and that's not Westminsters fault.

I don't where issue about borders came in because I didn't raise it.

Ahem again...

You keep missing the point...

Who was in control stockpiling PPE in preparation for a pandemic? The fact that Wales had to work so hard to procure so much PPE was down to the fact that the stockpile was so depleted. Are you conveniently forgetting that?

I know you realise that by having a national, Welsh-only lockdown then that would obviously include Wales closing the border with England. Are you categorically telling me that Wales had the power to do that?

That's why I mentioned borders to you.

I think a couple of you are playing dumb or just being disingenuous today.

[Heisenberg]

All four home countries were granted emergency powers on 8 March 2020. The Stereophoncis gig was mid-March so Wales Gov could have stopped it. It would however have been a very unpopular move.

Then the criticism is completely fair. The WAG f**ked that one up completely.

[Feedback]

Ahem again...

You keep missing the point...

Who was in control stockpiling PPE in preparation for a pandemic? The fact that Wales had to work so hard to procure so much PPE was down to the fact that the stockpile was so depleted. Are you conveniently forgetting that?

I know you realise that by having a national, Welsh-only lockdown then that would obviously include Wales closing the border with England. Are you categorically telling me that Wales had the power to do that?

That's why I mentioned borders to you.

I think a couple of you are playing dumb or just being disingenuous today.

it was down to the Welsh NHS and PHW to stockpile PPE - they did not. It was the same issue in England. So whilst PHE and the NHS are responsible for the lack of PPE in England, the same is said of PHW and the Welsh NHS in Wales.

As for your comments about the English border, the police were patrolling it, and turning people around.

[Feedback]

Then the criticism is completely fair. The WAG f**ked that one up completely.

of course they did, just like the UK government allowing Cheltenham was a cluster ****, but you won't see criticism of Drakeford or Welsh Labour from many on here, like you do with Boris and chums.

[Heisenberg]

Wait a second....

https://services.parliament.uk/bills...ronavirus.html

"Following agreement by both Houses on the text of the Bill it received Royal Assent on 25 March. The Bill is now an Act of Parliament (law)."

25th of March. Not the 8th of March.

Am I missing something glaring here or are you telling fibs Lisvaneblue?

Always happy to be corrected if I've got it wrong.

[lardy]

I believe we should be criticising all teams, because all teams are culpable and have played their part in this shambles.

All teams should be criticised.

But I will remind you that the Prime Minister has admitted full responsibility for all the deaths in the UK. But thinks that being 'deeply sorry' is enough, and will continue in his job, no doubt dishing out more large contracts to Tory donors.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Ahem again...

You keep missing the point...

Who was in control stockpiling PPE in preparation for a pandemic? The fact that Wales had to work so hard to procure so much PPE was down to the fact that the stockpile was so depleted. Are you conveniently forgetting that?

I know you realise that by having a national, Welsh-only lockdown then that would obviously include Wales closing the border with England. Are you categorically telling me that Wales had the power to do that?

That's why I mentioned borders to you.

I think a couple of you are playing dumb or just being disingenuous today.

In July I was speaking to a Director at Sport Wales National Centre [Sophia Gardens]. In March he and several of his Co directors at other Bodies had sourced PPE from reliable sources but had to go through Procurement Wales to place orders. Procurement Wales refused as the suppliers were not on the approved suppliers list.

By almost every standard Wales is at the bottom of the UK list.

[Heisenberg]

of course they did, just like the UK government allowing Cheltenham was a cluster ****, but you won't see criticism of Drakeford or Welsh Labour from many on here, like you do with Boris and chums.

Are you kidding?! They all get a hammering on here ya soft git

[Heisenberg]

In July I was speaking to a Director at Sport Wales National Centre [Sophia Gardens]. In March he and several of his Co directors at other Bodies had sourced PPE from reliable sources but had to go through Procurement Wales to place orders. Procurement Wales refused as the suppliers were not on the approved suppliers list.

By almost every standard Wales is at the bottom of the UK list.

That's interesting... But did you believe him? I ask this question because you have continuously played down the seriousness of the pandemic and think there's been a massive overreaction to it.

[Croesy Blue]

I have no idea, nor do I care. However your continued Tory bashing whilst at the same time ignoring the chuckle**** that is Drakeford is rather telling.

I've literally just said that Drakeford and Sturgeon should get some blame too.

But the primeminister of the UK also needs to be held to account for this complete shambles. The majority of which is the making of the government in charge of the uk.

[lardy]

what do you think the current resurgence is to do with? the new strain being more virulent perhaps? the apparent apathy of people to stay at home? all are factors that have contributed.

if you recall the first lockdown, when you ventured outside it was like a ghost town, then people started venturing out. compare that to lockdown 2 and 3, its almost as if nothing has happened. The streets aren't as busy as normal, but they are busy.

I'd list:

No decent track and trace for months
Frequent changing of rules
Lack of consistent enforcement of rules
No testing at airports, which may have led to the new strain coming in (just because it was detected in the UK doesn't mean it developed here)

If that had all been done properly, the numbers would be better.

[Croesy Blue]

of course they did, just like the UK government allowing Cheltenham was a cluster ****, but you won't see criticism of Drakeford or Welsh Labour from many on here, like you do with Boris and chums.

Have you not been reading the board very much? They've been absolutely criticised non stop and rightly so.

[Feedback]

All teams should be criticised.

But I will remind you that the Prime Minister has admitted full responsibility for all the deaths in the UK. But thinks that being 'deeply sorry' is enough, and will continue in his job, no doubt dishing out more large contracts to Tory donors.

Boris has not taken full responsibility for the deaths, he takes responsibility for his governments actions. the two are not the same. Of course the UK response has been lacking in parts, and of course it is correct that it takes its fair share of the blame. There are many factors at play, one of which is the UK government.

[Feedback]

I'd list:

No decent track and trace for months

why couldn't WG develop their own?

Frequent changing of rules

agreed. This has probably been the biggest **** up of them all

Lack of consistent enforcement of rules

this is directly related to the point above, but the public also has to take its fair share of the blame here for flouting the rules.

No testing at airports, which may have led to the new strain coming in (just because it was detected in the UK doesn't mean it developed here)

agreed, but again the WG could have ensured testing at Cardiff.

If that had all been done properly, the numbers would be better.

and if everyone had stayed at home, the numbers would have been smaller again.

The fact is some of the British people just di not understand what was going on and treated lockdown as something that only impacted other people

[Feedback]

Have you not been reading the board very much? They've been absolutely criticised non stop and rightly so.

those posts must have been deleted before I got here.

[Heisenberg]

Feedy and Lisvaneblue,

You've both consistently said that the Welsh government had the same powers as the UK govt. to make all of these early decisions...

Even claiming the emergency bill was passed two weeks before it did.

Then please tell me why on earth the Coronavirus Bill was passed on the 25th March 2020 (not the 8th March) to grant powers to the devolved nations for enacting their own responses to the pandemic?

Don't shirk the question.

[Heisenberg]

I'll reword some of that so you don't just give a pedantic answer...

"... please tell me why on earth the Coronavirus Bill was passed on the 25th March 2020 (not the 8th March) which granted powers to the devolved nations for enacting their own responses to the pandemic?"

[lisvaneblue]

Ahem again...

You keep missing the point...

Who was in control stockpiling PPE in preparation for a pandemic? The fact that Wales had to work so hard to procure so much PPE was down to the fact that the stockpile was so depleted. Are you conveniently forgetting that?

I know you realise that by having a national, Welsh-only lockdown then that would obviously include Wales closing the border with England. Are you categorically telling me that Wales had the power to do that?

That's why I mentioned borders to you.

I think a couple of you are playing dumb or just being disingenuous today.

The lack of PPE stock in Wales was down to PHW/NHS Wales. The lack of PPE stock in England was down to PHE/ NHS England.

Wales could lockdown relatively effectively with or without border control and we do. Stay at home, shut shops, shut hospitality and when visitors cross the border they are subject to Wales lockdown rules. Where's the problem with that?

[lisvaneblue]

I'll reword some of that so you don't just give a pedantic answer...

"... please tell me why on earth the Coronavirus Bill was passed on the 25th March 2020 (not the 8th March) which granted powers to the devolved nations for enacting their own responses to the pandemic?"

Emergency powers 8 March, the bill followed and the powers granted were tailored to react to the pandemic.

There's a statement from Vaughan Gething on 8 March on line stating the granting of emergency powers

[Feedback]

Feedy and Lisvaneblue,

You've both consistently said that the Welsh government had the same powers as the UK govt. to make all of these early decisions...

Even claiming the emergency bill was passed two weeks before it did.

Then please tell me why on earth the Coronavirus Bill was passed on the 25th March 2020 (not the 8th March) to grant powers to the devolved nations for enacting their own responses to the pandemic?

Don't shirk the question.

why are you asking me this?

anyway, here's a good article, have a read

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757790

[Heisenberg]

Emergency powers 8 March, the bill followed and the powers granted were tailored to react to the pandemic.

There's a statement from Vaughan Gething on 8 March on line stating the granting of emergency powers

The Government has said that responding to a wider pandemic of coronavirus may require further emergency legislation. The Government announced on 8 March 2020 that it intended to introduce a “Covid-19 emergency bill”.

https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/c...y-legislation/

The powers didn't come into place on the 8th March. The announcement that emergency powers were going to be granted was on that date.

I think you owe me an apology.

[Heisenberg]

why are you asking me this?

anyway, here's a good article, have a read

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757790

Because you said the WG had the same powers as the UK govt. when it came to locking down early etc... Or have you forgotten that already?

[Croesy Blue]

Why does the welsh government being useless get the U.K. government off the hook for being absolute shite and killing 100,000 people