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At the end of the day the vaccine needs to be made available to all otherwise the risk of mutation increases. The UK should take the high road and help out countries with less resources as much as possible - even if they're acting in this (insert your word of choice) fashion.Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef
I totally agree about helping out, it’s the fact that half of them have stopped using the Astra Zeneca vaccine and now they want to block supplies. They have been slow in taking up the vaccines and have only the Brussels mob to blame for their problems.
Help out the 3rd world countries with ours spares
as for the EU, they are just looking like spoilt brats now, its getting embarrassing
Of course. And we are helping those less fortunate countries that can't afford the vaccine, But the EU has the resources, they just messed around and ordered supplies far too late. When we have finished our vaccination programs then we can let them have any spares left over. That is what they would do if the situation is reversed.
Trying to take the moral high ground by saying the EU has given us 10 million vaccines is rubbish. They didn't give them to us, we bought them in commercial contracts with firms based in the EU which we sorted out quicker than they did.
If people had realised how bad the EU were and that they would do this sort of stuff I suspect the leave vote would have been higher than 52-48.
Elwood, you are 100% correct.
Brussels had better be very careful here.
The figures do not lie and citing the Oxford AZ being unsafe because of a "high risk of thrombosis" has been proven to be rubbish, a miniscule percentage and on a par with the Pfizer vaccine.
Macron set his stall out early by not having the jab as did Merkel, quite obviously playing politics saying it was ineffective to oldies (again nonsense), it will be for the people of the various countries to decide for themselves.
Also are Italy really in a position to be turning down vaccines of any kind when they are hitting their 3rd wave?
Yeah it almost seems that they are desperate for the Oxford jab to fail somehow, problem because we ordered lots of it early and they want it to go titsup, probably because we left the EU etc....the fact the Pfizer one has had a similar % of clots is laughable.....
The bureaucracy of the EU makes me quite glad we are out of it....
What has the pause in its use got to do with the EU? My understanding is that a number of countries, starting with Denmark and including the non-EU country Norway and Sweden, where Astra-Zeneca is a British-Swedish company have decided to pause its use against the advice of the EU's European Medical Agency.
Strange that countries exercising their national sovereignty rather than being subject to supposed EU bureaucracy triggers such a reaction.
The UK knowing the EU made a mess of things, the EU knowing they made a mess of things (and that the UK/rest of the world knows it too) should be enough. It's not about helping out countries with less financial power, it's about helping out countries with less resources whether that's by their own design or not because mutation is the enemy rather than the trading block next door. Although if Europe and now the EU weren't so close I would definitely be arguing for poorer nations to be helped first and still think they should be helped out moreso.
Do we have to bring up the referendum? Fine, we should probably remember that the referendum was meant to be between a reformed EU (with some criticism that Cameron's reforms hadn't gone far enough) and leaving. No one was saying the EU was perfect and leaving may end up being the right thing to do, but we should also recognise that House of Lords (unelected house) is now larger in number than the EU's parliament, the voting system within the UK delivered an unrepresentative but massive majority who can now act carte blance for 5 years, and now they're using that control to criminalise travelers/gypsies/roma, attack trans people, take money from disabled people and giving the police the power to stop any protest peaceful or otherwise.
You're more successful than Bluebird23 at least
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/e...virus-20198848
Not looking good
They are talking about stopping the Pfizer jab we have in order coming here in April with their export bollocks that’s what, do you watch the news? Von whatshername loves to try and threaten us now we’ve left!
The delay in the Oxford one from India is a different matter entirely....I imagine they are struggerling to produce the one billion required and to ship them here....
There are two things going on.
1. The EU's negotiated contracts with Pfizer and Astra Zeneca and the political posturing by the EU around their failure to source the vaccine as quickly as the UK and
2. The decision by individual countries in the EU and Norway/Iceland to pause the use of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine because of blood-clotting and other side effects.
The latter has nothing to do with the EU or its bureaucracy as you suggest but then again you should know that as you read the news!
No it is not just EU countries who have banned the Oxford Vaccine but I suspect it is still a political decision in some countries arising in apart from the row with Astra Zeneca. France in particular has been bad mouthing the vaccine for weeks. Germany too has been pretty lukewarm.Such actions tend to plant doubt in peoples minds.
Don't take my word for it
The director general of Italy’s medicines authority AIFA someone far more qualified than any of us on here said on Tuesday
in an interview with daily la Repubblica
“We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks. The choice is a political one,” Nicola Magrini told
More fool them. Being careful about side effects is one thing. Banning something which is causing problems in about 7 people per million when the alternative ( which incidentally also has a similiar side effect) is killing 1000/2000 per million in some of the countries doesn't seem to be the most sensible decision in the world.
Of course the effect needS to be investigated but not stopped. A rare side effect of Paracetamol causes a low platelet count which i9s one of the side effects being reported from the vaccine but there is a warniNG about that in the leaflet you get in a box. i suspect the result of this will be a similar warning being given with the vaccine.
I agree with some of what you say. It may be politically expedient for some countries to "pause" the use of something you have insufficient supply of in the first place. But this has to be at the expense of placing doubt in the minds of some of the people in those countries about having the vaccine in the future which must be counterproductive.
That said, this action started in places like Denmark which I wouldn't put on the list of usual suspects for that kind of thing. Also in that context Sweden must have more to lose than gain given that Astra-Zeneca is an Anglo-Swedish company. I think jumping to conclusions that all the individual countries that have paused its use don't have the interests of their citizens at heart would be equally wrong.
My point remains that there is an ever greater tendency to lump the EU and its collective actions together with the actions taken by individual countries because they have the sovereign right to do so when looking how the rest of Europe is handling these issues, which is becoming more and more adversarial due to political posturing on all sides.
There is no doubt in my mind that suspension of the AZ vaccine by individual EU member states is a political one. The EMA and MHRA confirm that those given the current Covid-19 jabs show no more incidence of blood clots than in the general population.
That's not, by the way, to say they cause blood clots, because there is no evidence that they do, just if you've had a jab you are as unlikely to develop a blood clot as if you hadn't had a jab.
The MHRA and EMA are rigorous in their monitoring of drug side effects and you only have to look on their websites to see just how thorough they are in their medicine appraisals.
It's nice to have the clarity of thought on this such that all doubt is removed.
For my part I don't know enough about Danish politics to understand its domestic and international political motivations is being the first country in the EU to pause use of the Astra Zeneca vaccine.
I certainly don't understand the political rationale of Sweden, which has skin in the Astra Zeneca game and no reported cases of clotting or platelet reducing side effects, deciding it is politically expedient to reduce confidence in the vaccine one of its companies has developed. Nor do I understand what the political drivers for the non-EU countries of Norway and Iceland are in following their lead.
There is certainly a politically dimension of the largest member states of Germany, France, Italy and Spain so publicly been seen to consult and act in concert with each other, though other than to create a pretext for their own inability to vaccinate their populations it is difficult to understand the wider political rationale.
In any event this has been a political crisis from the off. Decisions on when and where to start lockdowns, how to source materials and manage testing, how and when to control borders have all been political decisions. And that is perfectly right and proper as it should be politicians that are held accountable for their actions by their own people.
My earlier comments related to EU member states. Sweden is a bit different in that the Swedish equivalent of the EMA has banned its use until the findings of the EMA investigation into blood clots are concluded. The EMA has not banned it, rather saying that they believe it safe but will investigate further.
If any link between the drug and blood clots is proven I predict the EMA will urge caution in certain groups but not ban it. It is too valuable in the fight against Covid. To date of course the group receiving AZ vaccine have been of the ages that are more prone to blood clots anyhow.
If you haven't got any covid symptons can you still ask for a covid test to be done in Wales right now , if so how do you go about it ?
not in Wales ( so not much help ) but our local test centre is walk up after 1 pm and you can ask for a test to take home, my fellow football coach had 10 of them yesterday, he works in peoples homes, so is planning to test himself every 4th day ( like the sch kids do )
yes blue matt sod all help in wales for someone like me who needs to have a lateral covid test for works purposes
got to go a to a walk in centre in England on monday
seems like wales is so far behind in these things
you working away then ? ? ? you could grab a few for the next time
yes working for a company that wants me to have one of these tests as i work between 2 sites within the same company in England
company policy so they say
rang 911 and they told me sorry sir can't help me as i,m in Wales there is no support !
you need to have symptons to get a test done in wales
I could have popped and got a few and sent you them, but its not going to get to you by then, so no help
makes me mad with all these rules between the home nations with different rules
Krankie up in Scotland and Drakeford here really need to align with the rest of the UK and form a common policy
i won't hold my breath tho
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