Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[Feedback]

Let's unpick this because you are obviously a bit confused.

PPE in Wales is the responsibility of PHW( primarily) and NHS Wales. The fact that we in Wales did not have enough is not the fault of England ( they didn't have enough either.)

Sporting events...Those that foolishly took place in England are well known as was the Stereophonics concert in Cardiff. PHE could have stopped the English events. PHW the Welsh ones as a risk to the population.

Delaying lockdown....Wales Gov could have insisted on lockdown early but didn't. It drifted along with England.

Track and Trace...Wales has it's own strategy published April 2020...To quote them ...'Our aim is to maintain a UK wide approach'

There seems to be a misunderstanding from many on this board that although Wales Gov is 100% responsible for the health of its people, the overall responsibility is with Boris and Westminster. Well that's wrong. Drakeford as first minister plus his ministers are 100% responsible.

no no no no no.

Tories bad Labour good.

you should read the memo

[Rjk]

he was saying that he took total responsibility for 100,000 deaths. But you know, I know and the country knows that health is devolved and his responsibilites for health are for England only. Glad to say he did not get into dividing the cake, he took it on in total.

Why on earth have we got a health minister in Wales who keeps on telling us that he makes this decision, that decision, the vaccine programme roll out etc?

Suppose, just suppose that Wales had got really low levels of Covid and a low death rate to go with it compared to other parts of UK. Do you really think Drakeford would say thanks to Boris for doing that. You can't have it both ways.

Health is devolved to the home nations and whatever you infer the responsibility for Wales health rests totally with the Senedd.

if wales' response to the pandemic had been "perfect" how much lower do you think the death rate per capita would have been than England, given that many of the measures to address the virus were in the UK government's control.

10% 15%
probably not much higher, given that the UK government failed on border control, test and trace, eat out to help out, etc.

we'll the death rate in Wales is currently 8% lower than England.
despite an older, poorer population in Wales, with more underlying health problems.

[the other bob wilson]

Johnson's a Tory **** and has handled the pandemic in England pretty poorly. That does not excuse Mark Drakeford and his shit show in Wales.

you even say yourself that Drakeford enacted our own firebreak lockdown, so why was Drakeford sat on his arse doing nothing when Johnson wasn't listening to Sage advice. Why didn't Drakeford act? We could have had a lockdown but Drakeford chose not to.

Er, I explained that the WAG wanted to act, but they were prevented from doing so by a UK Government Treasury decision, so Welsh Government decision making on health was compromised - you're just flailing about as you always do when you have one of your funny turns on here.

[lardy]

if he is fully responsible then yes. i don't think he is though, i think the British public have to take their fair share of the blame for not staying home, travelling from place to place, having parties, raves and whatnot.

Yes the government, whether UK or Welsh, could have done better, much better, but there is no point in putting in place what could have been effective measures if the general public don't pay attention and ignore it.

we'd be ****ed in a zombie apocalypse, with many running towards the undead.

Doesn't matter what you think. Doesn't matter what I think.

He has taken full responsibility for a hundred thousand people dying and not resigned.

[the other bob wilson]

if he is fully responsible then yes. i don't think he is though, i think the British public have to take their fair share of the blame for not staying home, travelling from place to place, having parties, raves and whatnot.

Yes the government, whether UK or Welsh, could have done better, much better, but there is no point in putting in place what could have been effective measures if the general public don't pay attention and ignore it.

we'd be ****ed in a zombie apocalypse, with many running towards the undead.

So do you think the British public should resign?

[Former Labour leader]

So do you think the British public should resign?

I think feedback thinks the 100000 people who died have only themselves to blame.

[Heisenberg]

Let's unpick this because you are obviously a bit confused.

PPE in Wales is the responsibility of PHW( primarily) and NHS Wales. The fact that we in Wales did not have enough is not the fault of England ( they didn't have enough either.)

Sporting events...Those that foolishly took place in England are well known as was the Stereophonics concert in Cardiff. PHE could have stopped the English events. PHW the Welsh ones as a risk to the population.

Delaying lockdown....Wales Gov could have insisted on lockdown early but didn't. It drifted along with England.

Track and Trace...Wales has it's own strategy published April 2020...To quote them ...'Our aim is to maintain a UK wide approach'

There seems to be a misunderstanding from many on this board that although Wales Gov is 100% responsible for the health of its people, the overall responsibility is with Boris and Westminster. Well that's wrong. Drakeford as first minister plus his ministers are 100% responsible.

Ahem...


Who was responsible for stockpiling PPE in the event of a pandemic? Was it PHW?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...0-in-six-years

Wales couldn't lockdown early for a number of reasons. Perhaps the main one being as the UK govt. was responsible for furlough. As a Tory and a constant critic of locking down, surely even you can see that making businesses close without financial support would have caused further devastation to people's lives and livelihoods? The UK govt. played the pandemic down and dragged their feet until the end of March 2020. That's on them!

Also, didn't the Covid bill get passed into law after the lockdown to grant the WAG more powers over Wales' response? Before that, it appears they legally couldn't close the border... Just as Scotland couldn't.

In April 2020 Wales said they'd follow the national approach to track and trace. Ok then... What would you have had them do in that situation and at that time when the UK govt. was going on about a "world beating" system they were implementing and spending fecking billions of pounds on. No, you're not having that one. The money for it was coming from Westminster and they spent it on lining their mate's pockets.

I will concede on the Stereophonics gig as that does seem to be something that could have been stopped. They will have to own that one and the consequences thereof.

After all of that... Which one of us appears to be confused?

[Feedback]

Er, I explained that the WAG wanted to act, but they were prevented from doing so by a UK Government Treasury decision, so Welsh Government decision making on health was compromised - you're just flailing about as you always do when you have one of your funny turns on here.

Why does a Treasury decision stop WG from acting?

[Feedback]

Doesn't matter what you think. Doesn't matter what I think.

He has taken full responsibility for a hundred thousand people dying and not resigned.

then that's up to him, and history will judge him for it.

[Feedback]

Ahem...


Who was responsible for stockpiling PPE in the event of a pandemic? Was it PHW?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...0-in-six-years

Wales couldn't lockdown early for a number of reasons. Perhaps the main one being as the UK govt. was responsible for furlough. As a Tory and a constant critic of locking down, surely even you can see that making businesses close without financial support would have caused further devastation to people's lives and livelihoods? The UK govt. played the pandemic down and dragged their feet until the end of March 2020. That's on them!

Also, didn't the Covid bill get passed into law after the lockdown to grant the WAG more powers over Wales' response? Before that, it appears they legally couldn't close the border... Just as Scotland couldn't.

In April 2020 Wales said they'd follow the national approach to track and trace. Ok then... What would you have had them do in that situation and at that time when the UK govt. was going on about a "world beating" system they were implementing and spending fecking billions of pounds on. No, you're not having that one. The money for it was coming from Westminster and they spent it on lining their mate's pockets.

I will concede on the Stereophonics gig as that does seem to be something that could have been stopped. They will have to own that one and the consequences thereof.

After all of that... Which one of us appears to be confused?

if the issue was one of public health then WG should have made a decision regardless of the economic consequences. There was no reason WG couldn't have invoked a Welsh lockdown. It is possible to have a lockdown without HMT support. Its crazy to suggest otherwise.

[Feedback]

So do you think the British public should resign?

is that what you take from my post?

[Feedback]

I think feedback thinks the 100000 people who died have only themselves to blame.

carry on thinking that. if that's what makes you happy.

[lardy]

then that's up to him, and history will judge him for it.

Or..... we could judge him now.

Nobody has ever said that Chamberlain shouldn't have resigned, he should have waited for history to judge him.

[Croesy Blue]

if the issue was one of public health then WG should have made a decision regardless of the economic consequences. There was no reason WG couldn't have invoked a Welsh lockdown. It is possible to have a lockdown without HMT support. Its crazy to suggest otherwise.

And that's why no one is sayin the WAG is blameless.

But ultimate responsibility lies with the PM of the UK, the government have completely ****ed the whole response from day one, and that's why it became a health crisis.

[the other bob wilson]

is that what you take from my post?

Yes.

[Dorcus]

Sage scientist Linda Bauld says a further 50k people could die before this crisis is over. If that happens does anyone think the bumbling idiot will then decide it's time to resign? .........fat chance!

John McDonnell makes the salient point "After 100,000 have died, the reality is we have a Prime Minister critically unsuited to a time of crisis". It begs the question: what exactly is he suited for?

[the other bob wilson]

Why does a Treasury decision stop WG from acting?

I told you in my first post on the subject, but I've finished with this discussion now because, as always with you, we'll just end up going round and round in circles.

[Heisenberg]

if the issue was one of public health then WG should have made a decision regardless of the economic consequences. There was no reason WG couldn't have invoked a Welsh lockdown. It is possible to have a lockdown without HMT support. Its crazy to suggest otherwise.

That's your opinion (although I highly doubt it's your actual opinion).

What about the bit about the WAG not being able to legally close the border before those powers were granted in the Covid act?

Also, regarding the Stereophonics gig...

This is in the Coronavirus Act 2020:

'Powers regarding public gatherings and premises

The Act gives ministers, including in the devolved administrations, the power to restrict or prohibit gatherings or events, and the power to close or restrict access to premises. The minister can only use this power if they have made an official declaration that the virus constitutes a “serious and imminent” threat to public health, and that using the powers would either help to control the transmission of the virus, or would facilitate the most appropriate deployment of medical/emergency resources.'

Somebody please explain to me why that the act gave these powers to devolved ministers if they already had this power?

[Croesy Blue]

Sage scientist Linda Bauld says a further 50k people could die before this crisis is over. If that happens does anyone think the bumbling idiot will then decide it's time to resign? .........fat chance!

John McDonnell makes the salient point "After 100,000 have died, the reality is we have a Prime Minister critically unsuited to a time of crisis". It begs the question: what exactly is he suited for?

Getting brexit done, even if it's in as shit a way as possible

[Former Labour leader]

I told you in my first post on the subject, but I've finished with this discussion now because, as always with you, we'll just end up going round and round in circles.

Quite right Bob. Feedback is a highly intelligent guy, but has always got to be right.
Just going to talk about Barnsley for the rest of the day.

[Vindec]

Sage scientist Linda Bauld says a further 50k people could die before this crisis is over. If that happens does anyone think the bumbling idiot will then decide it's time to resign? .........fat chance!

John McDonnell makes the salient point "After 100,000 have died, the reality is we have a Prime Minister critically unsuited to a time of crisis". It begs the question: what exactly is he suited for?

Never let a crisis go to waste. As if the Labour alternative could do any better. After McDonnel, Abbot and Corbyn we have Starmer who has flim flammed all over the place on for example closing the borders and education.

[Rjk]

Never let a crisis go to waste. As if the Labour alternative could do any better. After McDonnel, Abbot and Corbyn we have Starmer who has flim flammed all over the place on for example closing the borders and education.

Of course they could have done better. We won't know whether they would have, but it is had to imagine how they could have been any worse.
They would have had much more scrutiny from the press as well.

[Heisenberg]

Never let a crisis go to waste. As if the Labour alternative could do any better. After McDonnel, Abbot and Corbyn we have Starmer who has flim flammed all over the place on for example closing the borders and education.

I suggest that almost anybody else could have done a better job than Boris Johnson.

Scandal after scandal after scandal.

You can argue whether Labour's response would have been great, but to suggest it would have somehow been worse than this pile of human excrement is astonishing.

[Croesy Blue]

Never let a crisis go to waste. As if the Labour alternative could do any better. After McDonnel, Abbot and Corbyn we have Starmer who has flim flammed all over the place on for example closing the borders and education.

How is this at all relevant?

[Hilts]

Ah the old Corbyn , Abbott argument comes out.