Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[Hilts]

FFS that Welsh press conference. Ongoing discussions with pharmacys to give vaccines. Shouldnt this have all been in place already.?

[goats]

FFS that Welsh press conference. Ongoing discussions with pharmacys to give vaccines. Shouldnt this have all been in place already.?

You would think....maybe they like us being locked down

[lisvaneblue]

FFS that Welsh press conference. Ongoing discussions with pharmacys to give vaccines. Shouldnt this have all been in place already.?

I don’t think this should be generally rolled out. Community pharmacists have been well involved in the annual flu vaccination campaigns for years and do a great job. The flu jab is relatively straightforward as it comes as a ready prepared pre- loaded syringe. The Oxford jab which is the one that can be kept in a fridge comes as a 10 dose multi use vial. The pharmacist has to draw up doses from the vial using aseptic technique and once a dose has been used from the vial the other nine doses must be used within 6 hours and anything not used in this time must be binned.

I’m not sure busy high street pharmacies are the place for this type of vaccine.

[Gofer Blue]

I don’t think this should be generally rolled out. Community pharmacists have been well involved in the annual flu vaccination campaigns for years and do a great job. The flu jab is relatively straightforward as it comes as a ready prepared pre- loaded syringe. The Oxford jab which is the one that can be kept in a fridge comes as a 10 dose multi use vial. The pharmacist has to draw up doses from the vial using aseptic technique and once a dose has been used from the vial the other nine doses must be used within 6 hours and anything not used in this time must be binned.

I’m not sure busy high street pharmacies are the place for this type of vaccine.

According to their spokesman, community pharmacists are supposedly all keen to be part of the vaccination programme. If all 11,000 pharmacies did take part a tremendous number of people could be vaccinated quickly. However, speaking as a retired industrial pharmacist who spent some time in retail, I don't know how they would find the time! As for the worry about aseptic technique, I hardly think there is much difference in working conditions between the consulting room in a pharmacy and a leisure centre. Pharmacists should be well aware of aseptic procedures?

Of greater concern to me is the availability of components like vials and stoppers. There are not that many manufacturers of pharmaceutical quality glass vials or stoppers, so the availability of these could well turn out to be the rate limiting step.

[xsnaggle]

According to their spokesman, community pharmacists are supposedly all keen to be part of the vaccination programme. If all 11,000 pharmacies did take part a tremendous number of people could be vaccinated quickly. However, speaking as a retired industrial pharmacist who spent some time in retail, I don't know how they would find the time! As for the worry about aseptic technique, I hardly think there is much difference in working conditions between the consulting room in a pharmacy and a leisure centre. Pharmacists should be well aware of aseptic procedures?

Of greater concern to me is the availability of components like vials and stoppers. There are not that many manufacturers of pharmaceutical quality glass vials or stoppers, so the availability of these could well turn out to be the rate limiting step.

This has already been discussed. Th government has already been sourcing these and had put money towards greater manufacturing output.

[lisvaneblue]

According to their spokesman, community pharmacists are supposedly all keen to be part of the vaccination programme. If all 11,000 pharmacies did take part a tremendous number of people could be vaccinated quickly. However, speaking as a retired industrial pharmacist who spent some time in retail, I don't know how they would find the time! As for the worry about aseptic technique, I hardly think there is much difference in working conditions between the consulting room in a pharmacy and a leisure centre. Pharmacists should be well aware of aseptic procedures?

Of greater concern to me is the availability of components like vials and stoppers. There are not that many manufacturers of pharmaceutical quality glass vials or stoppers, so the availability of these could well turn out to be the rate limiting step.

I agree with your comments about supply chain issues like glass vials, could turn out to be the weakest link in the supply chain, not so much for the Pfizer product as product is finished in house and production planning would account for, but maybe for third party fill and finish of the Oxford jab.

I'm not so sure about community pharmacists being engaged en masse at this point in time. Boots are setting up a few hubs at large pharmacies to vaccinate 1000 a week, but your average community pharmacy couldn't do anything like that, and when you consider a 6 hour shell life once a dose has been extracted from a vial, and the fact that the SKU is 10 vials, community pharmacists could remove one heck of a lot of stock from an already friable supply chain, and potentially waste stock too.
Additionally, unlike the flu jab where appointments can be made for anyone, or even walk in service, the Covid jab will need to be given in priority order, and how is it all monitored? Pharmacy IT systems do not link to NHS patient data. Finally, according to the PIL patients have to be given a date for their 2nd jab at the time of the first, yet another administrative issue as the pharmacist will need to be sure he has stock available for these.

All in all I think pharmacy involvement would be best at a time when vaccination is open to the general population.

[Gofer Blue]

I agree with your comments about supply chain issues like glass vials, could turn out to be the weakest link in the supply chain, not so much for the Pfizer product as product is finished in house and production planning would account for, but maybe for third party fill and finish of the Oxford jab.

I'm not so sure about community pharmacists being engaged en masse at this point in time. Boots are setting up a few hubs at large pharmacies to vaccinate 1000 a week, but your average community pharmacy couldn't do anything like that, and when you consider a 6 hour shell life once a dose has been extracted from a vial, and the fact that the SKU is 10 vials, community pharmacists could remove one heck of a lot of stock from an already friable supply chain, and potentially waste stock too.
Additionally, unlike the flu jab where appointments can be made for anyone, or even walk in service, the Covid jab will need to be given in priority order, and how is it all monitored? Pharmacy IT systems do not link to NHS patient data. Finally, according to the PIL patients have to be given a date for their 2nd jab at the time of the first, yet another administrative issue as the pharmacist will need to be sure he has stock available for these.

All in all I think pharmacy involvement would be best at a time when vaccination is open to the general population.

You make some good points there. I agree a few large pharmacy hubs would be a good idea in order to reduce potential waste and guarantee continuity of supply for the second dose. I suppose the downside is that by definition there would not be many such centres so maybe not too local for elderly folk. As I said earlier I really don't know how a pharmacist in your local independent or small chain pharmacy would have the time or the facilities to get involved in the vaccination scheme on top of their normal "day job"!

Re vials/stoppers/caps - Pfizer will also be dependent on third party manufacturers for the supply of these too, although they may have greater commercial "clout" I suppose. I do wonder if we might see shortages of other injectable products that require 10 ml or 20 vials?