Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[Rjk]

https://twitter.com/Bill_Esterson/st...122503680?s=19

have a read of that thread. it should be an absolute scandal

[the other bob wilson]

have a read of that thread. it should be an absolute scandal

The so called lives v money debate at the heart of the issue of how to tackle the virus was never that for significant portions of the membership of the Governing party in the UK - disgraceful.

[Jordi Culé]

have a read of that thread. it should be an absolute scandal

It should be but along with other dubious contracts awarded for testing, appointments made to people with little expertise and piss poor achievement and management qualities I think most people are just blasé about incidents like this and sort of expect it from this current government.

It’s the most corrupt UK government in my lifetime and I’ll go as far to say as ever.

Covid19 is turning into a decent money spinner for Boris, Cummings and Gove’s butties. All paid for by us.

[lisvaneblue]

[QUOTE=Jordi Culé;5124604]It should be but along with other dubious contracts awarded for testing, appointments made to people with little expertise and piss poor achievement and management qualities I think most people are just blasé about incidents like this and sort of expect it from this current government.

It’s the most corrupt UK government in my lifetime and I’ll go as far to say as ever.

I think this is false news. I used to manage a lot of contracts in the good old days when I had to work for a living, so I looked up tenders on OJEC, the official journal, that lists pending tenders. I didn't search specifically for the Knowsley contract but there were over 500 UK tenders for clothing and PPE listed. So I believe the process of procurement is being done openly and on official EU lines

[surge]

https://www.ft.com/content/0143a8b8-...4-f152bb9df2d7

Lockdown sceptics v zero-Covid: who’s got it right?
Unsurprisingly, neither side has all the answers. For those, we should look to Germany

One of the replies to the tweet with the article said that Scotland has gone with stricter, quicker measures and has better track-and-trace yet still worse outcomes both economic and in deaths than Sweden. Another replied that Sweden's economy hasn't been saved, had shrank more drastically than its neighbours in the second quarter, while deaths are ten times higher than some neighbouring countries.

The best thing to have done would be not to cut services to the bone with several years of austerity, not get so distracted by brexit, extend transition period due to significantly difficult circumstances, make more the of time bought with lockdown earlier in the year to prepare for schools re-opening/colder months which we knew would put services under greater levels of stress and public would be fatigued...

Not sure what the best move is now. Vaccine is likely to be available before UK is ready to act like Germany.

[cyril evans awaydays]

[QUOTE=lisvaneblue;5124607]

It should be but along with other dubious contracts awarded for testing, appointments made to people with little expertise and piss poor achievement and management qualities I think most people are just blasé about incidents like this and sort of expect it from this current government.

It’s the most corrupt UK government in my lifetime and I’ll go as far to say as ever.

I think this is false news. I used to manage a lot of contracts in the good old days when I had to work for a living, so I looked up tenders on OJEC, the official journal, that lists pending tenders. I didn't search specifically for the Knowsley contract but there were over 500 UK tenders for clothing and PPE listed. So I believe the process of procurement is being done openly and on official EU lines

The key thing in your search is at what stage the details of the "tender" were published in the OJEU. In the case of the £122m contract awarded to PPP Medpro the first OJEU notification was after the contract was awarded.

It would appear that this was a direct award (ie no competitive tender) under negotiated procedure.

4) The Department for Health and Social Care (‘DHSC’) is satisfied the tests permitting use of the negotiated procedure without prior publication (Regulation 32(2)(c)) were met:

http://bidstats.uk/tenders/2020/W37/734724148

As you say there were hundreds of tenders for PPP in the OJEU from March. Many, from local councils and organisations such as the Scottish Government went through notification and tender procedures. This does not seem to be the case for the English Government Departments which were contracting first and putting notices of who they awarded it to in the OJEU later. Presumably to give some degree of cover in the event of legal challenge for their actions.

http://bidstats.uk/tenders/?q=ppe&ca...5-734724148-45

If you could point out the false news bits in the PPP Medpro story that would be really interesting.

[lisvaneblue]

[QUOTE=cyril evans awaydays;5124619]

The key thing in your search is at what stage the details of the "tender" were published in the OJEU. In the case of the £122m contract awarded to PPP Medpro the first OJEU notification was after the contract was awarded.

It would appear that this was a direct award (ie no competitive tender) under negotiated procedure.

4) The Department for Health and Social Care (‘DHSC’) is satisfied the tests permitting use of the negotiated procedure without prior publication (Regulation 32(2)(c)) were met:

http://bidstats.uk/tenders/2020/W37/734724148

As you say there were hundreds of tenders for PPP in the OJEU from March. Many, from local councils and organisations such as the Scottish Government went through notification and tender procedures. This does not seem to be the case for the English Government Departments which were contracting first and putting notices of who they awarded it to in the OJEU later. Presumably to give some degree of cover in the event of legal challenge for their actions.

http://bidstats.uk/tenders/?q=ppe&ca...5-734724148-45

If you could point out the false news bits in the PPP Medpro story that would be really interesting.

Negotiated procedures are legit. I remember getting called by the MOD for supply of specific medicines in the Falklands War. There were others they could supply but not in the volumes and time frames required. So it was all done and dusted very quickly.

This seems to be the same. The contract was for 25 million gowns, Florence Roby, according to the Twitter account, could supply 40,000 a month...500,000 a year approx, nowhere near what was required. The award was made by DOHSC, and in my dealings with them, which were many, they are rigorous and above board. Ppe Medpro must have offered guarantees regarding supply and quality

[cyril evans awaydays]

[QUOTE=lisvaneblue;5124630]

Negotiated procedures are legit. I remember getting called by the MOD for supply of specific medicines in the Falklands War. There were others they could supply but not in the volumes and time frames required. So it was all done and dusted very quickly.

This seems to be the same. The contract was for 25 million gowns, Florence Roby, according to the Twitter account, could supply 40,000 a month...500,000 a year approx, nowhere near what was required. The award was made by DOHSC, and in my dealings with them, which were many, they are rigorous and above board. Ppe Medpro must have offered guarantees regarding supply and quality

I don't think the issue is whether negotiated procedures are legal or not. They are catered for under EU Procurement Law. However in my experience of their use they usually go to companies with a proven track record of delivery given the urgent need when normal tendering is not considered appropriate.

In this instance it went to a start up company with no history of manufacture or sourcing.

The contract award notice states that the actual manufacturers were two Chinese companies

Wujiang Tutaike Textiles & Finishing Co., Ltd and Kunshan Jiehong Nonwoven Products Co. Ltd.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...8-08d264292891

PPP Medpro seem to magically materialised as intermediaries with ready made contacts in the Chinese manufacturing industry and was able to get a single supplier tender as a result. Nice work if you can get it and nothing to see so we should all move on!

[Rjk]

[QUOTE=lisvaneblue;5124630]

Negotiated procedures are legit. I remember getting called by the MOD for supply of specific medicines in the Falklands War. There were others they could supply but not in the volumes and time frames required. So it was all done and dusted very quickly.

This seems to be the same. The contract was for 25 million gowns, Florence Roby, according to the Twitter account, could supply 40,000 a month...500,000 a year approx, nowhere near what was required. The award was made by DOHSC, and in my dealings with them, which were many, they are rigorous and above board. Ppe Medpro must have offered guarantees regarding supply and quality

sorry but it does seem extremely suspect to me, and I think there should be an enquiry into all of these contracts.
I had so e exposure to the process for trying to obtain ventilators earlier in the year and that seemed pretty dodgy too.
the timing of this is extremely suspect.
if any of us were to try setting up a brand new company with no track record and win a huge contact within 7 weeks competing against existing suppliers for PPE then that would seem miraculous wouldn't it?

[cyril evans awaydays]

[QUOTE=Rjk;5124641]

sorry but it does seem extremely suspect to me, and I think there should be an enquiry into all of these contracts.
I had so e exposure to the process for trying to obtain ventilators earlier in the year and that seemed pretty dodgy too.
the timing of this is extremely suspect.
if any of us were to try setting up a brand new company with no track record and win a huge contact within 7 weeks competing against existing suppliers for PPE then that would seem miraculous wouldn't it?

It's obviously not a one-off but was a deliberate pattern. Very small companies with no track record in the sector suddenly being awarded multi-million pound contracts whilst traditional suppliers were being frozen out.

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/10/08/7...ackaging-firm/

https://www.cityam.com/government-fa...-control-firm/

What seems to be a common thread is these companies sourcing the PPE from China. It could be that this was the only realistic source for the bulk of the supplies required but direct contracting was politically unacceptable. Crikey there are people on here that won't buy a chinese takeaway in Cardiff because they blame "them" for the crisis who will no doubt be viewing this approach with utter horror.

What else is clear is that the intermediaries in these companies will have made massive profits for seemingly little effort. It will be interesting to see how Government met the intermediaries and how the intermediaries met the Chinese, some of which may come out if the National Audit Office is ever allowed to perform its statutory role.

[lisvaneblue]

[QUOTE=Rjk;5124641]

sorry but it does seem extremely suspect to me, and I think there should be an enquiry into all of these contracts.
I had so e exposure to the process for trying to obtain ventilators earlier in the year and that seemed pretty dodgy too.
the timing of this is extremely suspect.
if any of us were to try setting up a brand new company with no track record and win a huge contact within 7 weeks competing against existing suppliers for PPE then that would seem miraculous wouldn't it?

Maybe we'd all be happier if the tender had been awarded to the other company, despite the fact they could supply 40,000 a month and we needed 25 million. But don't worry the doctors and nurses will manage!

What is more likely is that the Chinese manufacturers had product but no links to UK or knowledge of our procurement procedures. So, they look for an intermediary and Ppe Medpro is formed.
There is another company Medpro been around for about 10 years, maybe they are somehow linked, although Ppe Medpro could be a 'one off' for this contract alone?

These things go on and DoHSC needed a supplier urgently.

[Jordi Culé]

[QUOTE=lisvaneblue;5124607]

It should be but along with other dubious contracts awarded for testing, appointments made to people with little expertise and piss poor achievement and management qualities I think most people are just blasé about incidents like this and sort of expect it from this current government.

It’s the most corrupt UK government in my lifetime and I’ll go as far to say as ever.

I think this is false news. I used to manage a lot of contracts in the good old days when I had to work for a living, so I looked up tenders on OJEC, the official journal, that lists pending tenders. I didn't search specifically for the Knowsley contract but there were over 500 UK tenders for clothing and PPE listed. So I believe the process of procurement is being done openly and on official EU lines

Hmmm...

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...rency-pandemic

It seems getting rid of wasteful Civil Service bureaucracy means speeding up giving public monies away to their mates.

I'm obviously a layman in regards to procurement.