Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[CCFCC3PO]

There's been nearly four months since that video was released as well, this list of Government U turns contains a few things that have happened since late April.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/the-n...oken-promises/

Government apologists have been keen to bring the Labour party into the conversation presumably because they cannot think of anything positive to say about Johnson and co, but just imagine what they would be saying about such a roll of shame if it had been a Labour Government, or any other party besides the Conservatives, elected in December with a record like that?

Politically, I have never voted for one singular party. It very often changes. However, there is one mainstream party I have never been able to vote for, and that is the Conservative Party. That is purely because they have never struck me as a party that cares for people who fall on hard times, and I have always said that hard times are only a bad day away for most people. I find the concept of voting for one party all through a lifetime a bit strange because parties evolve. The Labour Party that my granddad voted for in 1997 was not the same beast as the one he voted for in 1983.

So, it is sad to see that "staunch Tory voters" are reduced to saying nonsense like "imagine how much worse it would have been if Corbyn had got in?". It's a useful line because it is purely hypothetical, and in the hypothesis it is assumed that Corbyn would have made a mess of it. It's difficult to argue against without hypothesising yourself.

lisvaneblue, who seems to be very anti-Drakeford and not very anti-Johnson (despite the Welsh handling of the crisis post lockdown being much better than the English), has replied to the video by pointing out one inaccuracy and has completely ignored the roll of shame.

I defended the Government when locking down, I still think it was the right thing to do and it very likely saved a lot of lives and saved the NHS. However, during the lockdown huge mistakes were made, not least the decision to release hospital patients into the care system. In time, that will be seen as the most idiotic decision made by a British Government in decades. The decision to rush out of lockdown (in light of removing the spotlight from Cummings and onto good news) will also be seen to be negligent in time. Labour, and Blair, may be accused of introducing "spin" into politics (although Thatcher had a very good spin team) - but Johnson spins us out of the stratosphere. Diverging from the science to divert attention from Cummings was obvious to anyone with half an ounce of sense, as is the increase in anti-migration rhetoric whenever his Government has a bad day.

As for bad days, well the BTEC results were held back today affecting 450,000 young kids. We had the A level fiasco last week affecting thousands of kids. Did we have any statement from Johnson, or is his holiday still of paramount importance?

[lisvaneblue]

Politically, I have never voted for one singular party. It very often changes. However, there is one mainstream party I have never been able to vote for, and that is the Conservative Party. That is purely because they have never struck me as a party that cares for people who fall on hard times, and I have always said that hard times are only a bad day away for most people. I find the concept of voting for one party all through a lifetime a bit strange because parties evolve. The Labour Party that my granddad voted for in 1997 was not the same beast as the one he voted for in 1983.

So, it is sad to see that "staunch Tory voters" are reduced to saying nonsense like "imagine how much worse it would have been if Corbyn had got in?". It's a useful line because it is purely hypothetical, and in the hypothesis it is assumed that Corbyn would have made a mess of it. It's difficult to argue against without hypothesising yourself.

lisvaneblue, who seems to be very anti-Drakeford and not very anti-Johnson (despite the Welsh handling of the crisis post lockdown being much better than the English), has replied to the video by pointing out one inaccuracy and has completely ignored the roll of shame.

I defended the Government when locking down, I still think it was the right thing to do and it very likely saved a lot of lives and saved the NHS. However, during the lockdown huge mistakes were made, not least the decision to release hospital patients into the care system. In time, that will be seen as the most idiotic decision made by a British Government in decades. The decision to rush out of lockdown (in light of removing the spotlight from Cummings and onto good news) will also be seen to be negligent in time. Labour, and Blair, may be accused of introducing "spin" into politics (although Thatcher had a very good spin team) - but Johnson spins us out of the stratosphere. Diverging from the science to divert attention from Cummings was obvious to anyone with half an ounce of sense, as is the increase in anti-migration rhetoric whenever his Government has a bad day.

As for bad days, well the BTEC results were held back today affecting 450,000 young kids. We had the A level fiasco last week affecting thousands of kids. Did we have any statement from Johnson, or is his holiday still of paramount importance?

im not very anti-Drakeford, just pointing out that it was not factually accurate. Like you I am 'not died in the wool' attached to any particular party as TOBW is. Last time around I voted Boris in for no other reason than to get Brexit done. If an election was held tomorrow Starmer would probably get my vote.

As for the current situation under Boris, it's shambolic. Everyday we seem to be exposed to another mess and no end in sight. He is a delegator but his team is young and inexperienced and it shows. Sad thing is it doesn't seem to be getting any better

[Jordi Culé]

im not very anti-Drakeford, just pointing out that it was not factually accurate. Like you I am 'not died in the wool' attached to any particular party as TOBW is. Last time around I voted Boris in for no other reason than to get Brexit done. If an election was held tomorrow Starmer would probably get my vote.

As for the current situation under Boris, it's shambolic. Everyday we seem to be exposed to another mess and no end in sight. He is a delegator but his team is young and inexperienced and it shows. Sad thing is it doesn't seem to be getting any better

The bumbling beanbag is a “delegator...” You’re giving the colossal fuuckwit far too much credit.

By the way, he picked or chose his team and filled it with people who blow smoke up his arse and who are as competent as he is.

Best description I can give them is a gaggle of fuuckwits.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

The bumbling beanbag is a “delegator...” You’re giving the colossal fuuckwit far too much credit.

By the way, he picked or chose his team and filled it with people who blow smoke up his arse and who are as competent as he is.

Best description I can give them is a gaggle of fuuckwits.

I'm actually coming round to think Drakeford hasn't done too bad - certainly wouldn't call him a fuuuckwit..

[Jordi Culé]

I'm actually coming round to think Drakeford hasn't done too bad - certainly wouldn't call him a fuuuckwit..

*Raises eyebrow then smirks*

Nice try Monkfish.

[CCFCC3PO]

im not very anti-Drakeford, just pointing out that it was not factually accurate. Like you I am 'not died in the wool' attached to any particular party as TOBW is. Last time around I voted Boris in for no other reason than to get Brexit done. If an election was held tomorrow Starmer would probably get my vote.

As for the current situation under Boris, it's shambolic. Everyday we seem to be exposed to another mess and no end in sight. He is a delegator but his team is young and inexperienced and it shows. Sad thing is it doesn't seem to be getting any better

It is completely shambolic; he was caught in no-man's-land between saving people, retaining freedoms, and not trashing the economy. I have sympathy for him, I know I'd be completely incapable of managing the situation and would have run a mile. Maybe he should have done so too.

My view of him is that he is incapable of taking responsibility for past failings, there is nothing wrong in holding up hands and saying "sorry, we have got it wrong". The Cummings episode was the thread that led most of the previous hard work to unravel.

Allowing people to travel to Europe to holiday while, at the same time, stopping people from visiting relatives at home? Opening pubs before opening schools? No briefings giving people the impression this is "all over" (I have heard someone actually say this in Sainsburys), a necessary furlough scheme that has seen people refuse to go to work (neighbours are my anecdotal evidence), kids out in the street during April clamouring around an ice-cream van who was getting paid by the tax-payer precisely not to do that?

The lockdown was necessary, the speed at which England came out of it was not. We are still breaching the 1,000 cases limit on an almost daily basis, yes there is more testing meaning that we are recording more minor cases than previously but the 1,000 cases limit is based on those parameters.

It is shambolic. There doesn't seem to be any strategy, and the scientists seem to have become nodding dogs with more political than scientific answers (during briefings it was interesting to see scientists look at Johnson whilst giving answers).

We hear of upcoming unemployment figures, the cliff-edge that is the end of furlough but we still have the Brexit cliff-edge to come! I was never convinced that we were in a "strong bargaining position" when it came to the EU or anyone else worldwide, I am even less convinced now.

We are not hearing, though, of people on zero hour contracts. My partner works in a care home where some carers were placed on furlough on the last day of the scheme in June. When the burden of NI payments was passed back to the care home last month, they took the people off furlough. Guess what? Because they are on zero hour contracts, they haven't worked since meaning that the care home have jettisoned the NI burden and the wages.

Personally, I have taken a significant pay cut (supposedly my hours were cut) but my workload has meant I have continued working full time. I think there are probably many people experiencing the same thing, but nobody has mentioned this as a national problem yet - that we will have fewer people working, and those that are working will be on reduced wages or reduced hours.

I am not sure that I would vote for Starmer at this stage, although he impresses me the depth of "skill" in the labour party is particularly shallow, as it is in the Tory Party where incompetence caused by undying devotion to the leader seems to be a key requirement for getting to the cabinet. It is a terrible shame that most PMQs seem to retain attacks on party lines, although that tends to be more Johnson than Starmer with Johnson's answers insufficiently blaming Labour for "supporting going back to schools, but not supporting going back to schools" for example. Even though it is completely legitimate to support going back to schools, and to oppose the Government's plans for returning to schools.

[the other bob wilson]

im not very anti-Drakeford, just pointing out that it was not factually accurate. Like you I am 'not died in the wool' attached to any particular party as TOBW is. Last time around I voted Boris in for no other reason than to get Brexit done. If an election was held tomorrow Starmer would probably get my vote.

As for the current situation under Boris, it's shambolic. Everyday we seem to be exposed to another mess and no end in sight. He is a delegator but his team is young and inexperienced and it shows. Sad thing is it doesn't seem to be getting any better

It's true I have voted Labour most of my life, but not entirely so - I'd say I've almost voted as much for other parties as I've voted for Labour in local, general and EU elections in the last twenty years. Also, if you were sad enough to go looking through my posts on here around early March time, you'd see my saying that I didn't want to be political when it came to the virus because the UK Government had been landed with a hell of a task, worse than anything I could remember in my lifetime.

I was also critical of the Welsh Government as well as the UK one in the spring when I had realised that it was impossible for me not to bring politics into what was happening, but, increasingly, it seems to me that Drakeford and Welsh Labour are outperforming Johnson and the Conservatives - although, as Rjk rightly points out, the latter are setting a very, very low bar.

As mentioned earlier, the present UK Government are facing a test that much more able administrations than this one would have struggled with, but has the situation changed much in the last few months when it seems to me that only a Chancellor who has had things relatively easy in so far as he has been, mainly, giving money out up to now has suggested he has the competence to succeed in a Cabinet that seems to have too many in it who have been rewarded for their loyalty to both Brexit and the Prime Minister?

I'm not naive enough to believe that we would not see instances of the sort of cronyism involving Dido Harding, her husband and Alun Cairns if there was another party running the UK, but it just seems more blatant and out in the open under this lot.

I may not have been Labour all of my life, but I have been, and always will be anti the Conservative Party. Johnson and co aren't bothered about someone like me I'm sure, but they should certainly be very concerned about what some of their friends are saying about them. For example, the Daily Mail front page has made for some very interesting reading at times during the past few months - this article, written this month, is also hardly the sort of thing you'd expect to read in that paper;-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...R-trouble.html

[CCFCC3PO]

It's true I have voted Labour most of my life, but not entirely so - I'd say I've almost voted as much for other parties as I've voted for Labour in local, general and EU elections in the last twenty years. Also, if you were sad enough to go looking through my posts on here around early March time, you'd see my saying that I didn't want to be political when it came to the virus because the UK Government had been landed with a hell of a task, worse than anything I could remember in my lifetime.

I was also critical of the Welsh Government as well as the UK one in the spring when I had realised that it was impossible for me not to bring politics into what was happening, but, increasingly, it seems to me that Drakeford and Welsh Labour are outperforming Johnson and the Conservatives - although, as Rjk rightly points out, the latter are setting a very, very low bar.

As mentioned earlier, the present UK Government are facing a test that much more able administrations than this one would have struggled with, but has the situation changed much in the last few months when it seems to me that only a Chancellor who has had things relatively easy in so far as he has been, mainly, giving money out up to now has suggested he has the competence to succeed in a Cabinet that seems to have too many in it who have been rewarded for their loyalty to both Brexit and the Prime Minister?

I'm not naive enough to believe that we would not see instances of the sort of cronyism involving Dido Harding, her husband and Alun Cairns if there was another party running the UK, but it just seems more blatant and out in the open under this lot.

I may not have been Labour all of my life, but I have been, and always will be anti the Conservative Party. Johnson and co aren't bothered about someone like me I'm sure, but they should certainly be very concerned about what some of their friends are saying about them. For example, the Daily Mail front page has made for some very interesting reading at times during the past few months - this article, written this month, is also hardly the sort of thing you'd expect to read in that paper;-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...R-trouble.html

Oddly, John Major is the one Tory PM who I had some respect for. Wouldn't have voted for them though, and a minority Government might have tempered his actions, but he speaks brilliantly on Brexit.

Johnson lives in the knowledge that he probably won't be leader at the time of the next election but his party are giving an impression of fiddling while Rome burns.

[Jordi Culé]

Oddly, John Major is the one Tory PM who I had some respect for. Wouldn't have voted for them though, and a minority Government might have tempered his actions, but he speaks brilliantly on Brexit.

Johnson lives in the knowledge that he probably won't be leader at the time of the next election but his party are giving an impression of fiddling while Rome burns.

He was obviously not Tory enough for some within their party but another conservative who I always had respect for was Ken Clarke. He would’ve been an interesting Tory leader.