Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

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Rubbish.

If you think Johnson and his actions have no consequence on Wales you are seriously deluded.

Cummimgs , accusing the Labour leader of trying to ruin Christmas , have a merry little Christmas , no furlough extension then a U turn , over promising.

The most useless govt in history with serious out of depth brexiteers in charge of departments where they are completely out of their depth.

the response to the pandemic by all 4 home nations has been terrible. Lets not kid ourselves that any home nation has done better than any other.

no one had experience of handling this, its new to everyone, even that idiot Drakeford.

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At least he said sorry ****ing hell I’ve seen it all now.

Responsible for 88000? Is he not the prime minister of the United Kingdom?

health is a devolved matter.

[Croesy Blue]

In case you hadn't noticed Wales Gov and First Minister Drakeford is responsible for health of population of Wales...nothing to do with Boris at all.

Nor is he responsible for health matters in Scotland and N Ireland

You'll be blaming him for school closures in Wales next and for closing Castle St to cars.

Isn’t this beyond just health though? The deaths aren’t caused because of how hospitals are run but how Covid was allowed to run rampant through the whole of the U.K.

I’m not saying drakeford and sturgeon completely escaped criticism but to defend Johnson just because you’re a Tory voter is just tribalism at it’s worst.

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Isn’t this beyond just health though? The deaths aren’t caused because of how hospitals are run but how Covid was allowed to run rampant through the whole of the U.K.

I’m not saying drakeford and sturgeon completely escaped criticism but to defend Johnson just because you’re a Tory voter is just tribalism at it’s worst.

Boris is responsible for England, Drakeford for Wales. Why are we even discussing England on this forum. Its just Tory bashing and nothing more.

[Heisenberg]

Id like our first minister to say sorry publicly too. The Wales figures are every bit as bad as England.

Swerved the question nicely there. Have you considered becoming a Tory MP?

[Heisenberg]

It's not as simple as that. The government have control over the borders. Not doing testing at airports will have been responsible for a lot of cases. That's just one example.

PPE, sporting events, delaying lockdown, playing down the seriousness of the virus ("I was shaking hands with Covid patients" etc") care homes, track and trace.

There's another 7 things off the top of my head.

[lardy]

PPE, sporting events, delaying lockdown, playing down the seriousness of the virus ("I was shaking hands with Covid patients" etc") care homes, track and trace.

There's another 7 things off the top of my head.

"Nothing to do with Joris at all"

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PPE, sporting events, delaying lockdown, playing down the seriousness of the virus ("I was shaking hands with Covid patients" etc") care homes, track and trace.

There's another 7 things off the top of my head.

how does any of that affect health policy in Wales?

[lisvaneblue]

PPE, sporting events, delaying lockdown, playing down the seriousness of the virus ("I was shaking hands with Covid patients" etc") care homes, track and trace.

There's another 7 things off the top of my head.

Let's unpick this because you are obviously a bit confused.

PPE in Wales is the responsibility of PHW( primarily) and NHS Wales. The fact that we in Wales did not have enough is not the fault of England ( they didn't have enough either.)

Sporting events...Those that foolishly took place in England are well known as was the Stereophonics concert in Cardiff. PHE could have stopped the English events. PHW the Welsh ones as a risk to the population.

Delaying lockdown....Wales Gov could have insisted on lockdown early but didn't. It drifted along with England.

Track and Trace...Wales has it's own strategy published April 2020...To quote them ...'Our aim is to maintain a UK wide approach'

There seems to be a misunderstanding from many on this board that although Wales Gov is 100% responsible for the health of its people, the overall responsibility is with Boris and Westminster. Well that's wrong. Drakeford as first minister plus his ministers are 100% responsible.

[Feedback]

Let's unpick this because you are obviously a bit confused.

PPE in Wales is the responsibility of PHW( primarily) and NHS Wales. The fact that we in Wales did not have enough is not the fault of England ( they didn't have enough either.)

Sporting events...Those that foolishly took place in England are well known as was the Stereophonics concert in Cardiff. PHE could have stopped the English events. PHW the Welsh ones as a risk to the population.

Delaying lockdown....Wales Gov could have insisted on lockdown early but didn't. It drifted along with England.

Track and Trace...Wales has it's own strategy published April 2020...To quote them ...'Our aim is to maintain a UK wide approach'

There seems to be a misunderstanding from many on this board that although Wales Gov is 100% responsible for the health of its people, the overall responsibility is with Boris and Westminster. Well that's wrong. Drakeford as first minister plus his ministers are 100% responsible.

no no no no no.

Tories bad Labour good.

you should read the memo

[Heisenberg]

Also...

Defending Dominic Cummings' jaunt to County Durham and eliminating all of the public togetherness that was created during the first lockdown.

They set a great example of how it's one rule for them and another for the rest of us with that farce.

[Heisenberg]

"Nothing to do with Joris at all"

"I believe that shaking hands is a devolved law".

[surge]

The truly sobering statistic is that half of the 100,000 deaths have happened since November. The virus was not “unprecedented” then; we’d had the precedent of the preceding nine months. https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status...29716052160513

I haven't fact checked this but it's extraordinary if true.

In terms of how each nation has applied it's resources, compare winter strategies.

[Croesy Blue]

I haven't fact checked this but it's extraordinary if true.

In terms of how each nation has applied it's resources, compare winter strategies.

Yep that is true, and we are still getting over 1000 deaths a day so expect another 50,000 in the next couple of months.

Hopefully the deaths start to decrease with the number of infections decreasing again but it's going to be going on for a while yet.

[Hilts]

I still remember him laughing at Starmer for saying a lockdown was needed in November and then changing his mind 2 weeks later.

He did the same thing when the devolved nations were worried about Christmas and said he was going to save Christmas.

He has ****ed up at every turn and trying to equate blame to the devolved nations is about as pathetic as you can get.

Its depressing.

At least the loons in this country dont demand the right to be armed.

[xsnaggle]

Can we all get off our political horses for a moment and be serious?

Covid 19 is a reportable disease so if there is any chance of the person dying having had it then the certifying doctor is obliged to put it on the death certificate. If one of us had a positive test and within 28 days got run over by a bus then covid would be declared on the death certificate. We would be part of the 'unacceptable' deaths that are reported every day.
The more realistic figure to look at is the difference between the figures and what would normally be expected. (I think they average it over the previous 5 years) and thecurrent figures.
now that figure is quite probably still too high but it is a lot less than 100,000.
Also, although Westminster was in charge of the initial response it is fair to say that reaction to the second wave was the responsibility of devolved administrations and so they should bear a proportion of the blame, if there is any, for deaths since perhaps october or november.
It is far to simplistic and frankly an insult to peoples intelligence to try to say that all this is the fault of 1 person. It is rediculous.

[Hilts]

Can we all get off our political horses for a moment and be serious?

Covid 19 is a reportable disease so if there is any chance of the person dying having had it then the certifying doctor is obliged to put it on the death certificate. If one of us had a positive test and within 28 days got run over by a bus then covid would be declared on the death certificate. We would be part of the 'unacceptable' deaths that are reported every day.
The more realistic figure to look at is the difference between the figures and what would normally be expected. (I think they average it over the previous 5 years) and thecurrent figures.
now that figure is quite probably still too high but it is a lot less than 100,000.
Also, although Westminster was in charge of the initial response it is fair to say that reaction to the second wave was the responsibility of devolved administrations and so they should bear a proportion of the blame, if there is any, for deaths since perhaps october or november.
It is far to simplistic and frankly an insult to peoples intelligence to try to say that all this is the fault of 1 person. It is rediculous.

My bet is Xsnaggle that far more people have died of the after effects or complications of Covid after 28 days than been hit by a bus and been recorded as a Covid death.

[Croesy Blue]

I don’t think anyone is saying it is the fault of any one person but do you seriously think the U.K. government aren’t responsible for what’s happened in the U.K.?

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I don’t think anyone is saying it is the fault of any one person but do you seriously think the U.K. government aren’t responsible for what’s happened in the U.K.?

no, thats excusing the 3 other devolved administrations for their own shortcomings.

[Croesy Blue]

My bet is Xsnaggle that far more people have died of the after effects or complications of Covid after 28 days than been hit by a bus and been recorded as a Covid death.

Definitely, it seems a disingenuous way of trying to disguise this mess we are in.

[xsnaggle]

Definitely, it seems a disingenuous way of trying to disguise this mess we are in.

I'm not trying to diguise anything. That fact is that 100,000 people have not been directly killed by the virus. The majority would have died anyway sooner rather than later, given the figures on underlying health conditions. As I said what matters is the excess deaths and whilst these or some of them may be attributable to government acting too late, the figure is nowhere near the 100,000 that people are using as a stick to beat people with. And of those excess deaths some are certainly attributal to the acts or omissions of central government and some to devolved governments.

Two other points: It was recorded in the summer when the first wave abated that there were less than normal numbers of deaths being recorded presumably because some poor folks had died earlier. So that adjusts the figure a little more.
the same will undoubtedly be true after this wave subsides.
I know a lot of people on here dont want to accept these things but it doesn't alter the fact that they remain true.

The seocod thing is when comparing UK's death trate to other countries we need to be careful that we compare like with like. We don't know how other countries may be gathering and collating their information nor how they may massage figures for domestic consumption

[Feedback]

I'm not trying to diguise anything. That fact is that 100,000 people have not been directly killed by the virus. The majority would have died anyway sooner rather than later, given the figures on underlying health conditions. As I said what matters is the excess deaths and whilst these or some of them may be attributable to government acting too late, the figure is nowhere near the 100,000 that people are using as a stick to beat people with. And of those excess deaths some are certainly attributal to the acts or omissions of central government and some to devolved governments.

Two other points: It was recorded in the summer when the first wave abated that there were less than normal numbers of deaths being recorded presumably because some poor folks had died earlier. So that adjusts the figure a little more.
the same will undoubtedly be true after this wave subsides.
I know a lot of people on here dont want to accept these things but it doesn't alter the fact that they remain true.

The seocod thing is when comparing UK's death trate to other countries we need to be careful that we compare like with like. We don't know how other countries may be gathering and collating their information nor how they may massage figures for domestic consumption

we don't know what the true Covid19 death count is, but this article has a good graphic that tries to explain various measurements of Covid19 deaths

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55814751

[Hilts]

Definitely, it seems a disingenuous way of trying to disguise this mess we are in.

I havent looked but with Social distancing etc flu deaths I thought would be down.

[Hilts]

Boris is responsible for England, Drakeford for Wales. Why are we even discussing England on this forum. Its just Tory bashing and nothing more.

Boo hoo.

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Boo hoo.

well you've won the internet today with that response