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Someone earlier in the thread was disputing the 100,000 deaths figure because it comes from deaths within 28 days of a positive test, and was saying 'excess deaths' is the only reliable measure of the effect of Covid. In the autumn there was a fair difference between the two measures, but now they are almost the same:
3 measures Covid deaths.jpg
100,00 excess deaths due to negligence from the government.Originally Posted by Vindec
I cannot believe that HM Gov are still procrastinating about people arriving in the UK from abroad. Apart from British citizens who need to come back (although I would ask why are you abroad in the first place and why do you want to come back at this particular moment - presumably for some essential reason?), no-one should be allowed in at all, forget all this self isolation in hotels stuff. We are an island and yet we have the highest number of COVID deaths in Europe.
I must have missed the fact that there have been 100000 excess deaths due to negligence. Have you a link? Excess deaths mean those over and above deaths that occur annually due to illnesses such as flu. Are you really suggesting that all 100000 people died due to the government's negligence?
Thats in the link I posted above and is a good graphic that shows the impact Covid19 has had on theUK
Part of it is caused by indecision and incompetence by WG and UKG, but joe much has been caused by other factors such as
People not staying home?
The UK being one of the most densely populated countries
Heathrow bring a transport hub
Etc etc
There is no one single factor that has caused this
I think we can put a big majority of those deaths on the U.K. government yes.
Especially when half of them have happened since November.
You still haven't answered the question that 100000 deaths have been caused by negligence. You must know that is an outrageous statement which you cannot verify. Unless you are able to provide a link as requested I suggest we leave this conversation.
What type of evidence would you like? The Government during the first wave saying 20,000 deaths would be a catastrophe, other countries of similar population and density having a much lower death rate? Do you not thing a large majority of those 100,000 deaths is due to the negligence and slow reactions of this government?
Why have Japan, South Korea, Taiwan all done better than us despite being closer to the epicentre? Why does even the US have lower deaths per capita than us?
Which part of that 100,000 being the fault of the government do you disagree with?
Watched a documentary on Taiwan the other day, they said they’ve been preparing for this type event for 20 years, they were ready.
Reckon we had been?
The UK used to have one of the best pandemic response plans in the world. Lots of Asian countries actually copied it.
But in 2020, the UK government didn't follow it.
they have had much more experience of this than we have: SARS, MERS and so on. Its hardly surprising they are better prepared.
I would like the evidence to support your contention that 100000 deaths have been caused by negligence. It's not a difficult request; you either have it or you don't. I couldn't be clearer. All you are attempting to do is divert me from your original assertion that 100000 deaths have been caused by negligence. Your statements imply that every single death has been caused by negligence and all I am asking for is proof that your assertions are accurate. You now seem to be changing tack claiming the large majority of deaths are caused by by negligence. Stop being slimy. Just admit you are wrong.
Sorry mate yeah only about 80,000 of the deaths have been caused by negligence fomr the government. Glad you are here to hold the real villians to account while sticking up for the little men running the country like a dodgy business!
I'm not sure what sort of proof you want other than what's in the news every day.
Or would you like to wait until the enquiry into this happens?
for some reason you are quick to criticise the government for ignoring the scientists, but then choose to ignore the scientists for expediency when it suits.
The current thinking, back by genetic tracing, is that around 1300 different sources of Covid came into the UK, with quite a considerably number coming in via Heathrow without the carrier ever setting foot on UK soil. Heathrow is a significant travel hub with many of its passengers never actually venturing beyond UK border control. Closing the borders would have had little or no effect.
You conveniently ignore the density of the UK, with its major cities and the majority of its population being within 2-3 hours of each other. This has had a significant impact on the spread of the disease.
History and hindsight will show that many mistakes have been made and things could have been done better, not just by Boris and UKG, but by Drakeford and WG which is something you always ignore. A case in point is the current vaccine roll out in Wales, which is shambolic - people having their 2nd shot being cancelled is just not acceptable. Unsurprisingly you rather quiet on this particular issue.
The 4 home nations have got it wrong and the lack of joined up thinking and confusing rules that differed between the 4 nations, sometimes changing by the hour certainly didn't help. What also did not help was a large part of the UK population ignoring the advice and socialising as if nothing was happening.
There's little point in you responding, but if you do, as is your right, then in the interest of brevity why not just respond with "Labour Good, Tory Bad" which sums up just about every post you make on the subject.
I don't think labour good tory bad though, I don't even know why that comes into it. I do think the response in Wales has been shambolic, especially with the vaccine.
I'm not ignoring population density though am I? Equally dense countries have got half the deaths of the uk while not having the benefit of being an island nation.
So how did all the variants get into heathrow without the carrier ever getting onto UK soil?
It may be right to say that Drakeford and Sturgeon having slightly different rules about 12 year old's was wrong when clearly singing from same hymn sheet, but in practice this is often a veiled attack on devolution. Arguably, the worst each nation has done is when they had joined up thinking at the start of first wave (moving ill or untested people back into care homes) and their joined up plans for winter (proposed 5 days travel relaxation) but the best each nation has done is when it's been prepared to act more individually and boldly: Boris using the summer to give business a boost, Sturgeon going hard and early when needed especially at the start of winter, Drakeford putting whole of Wales into lockdown during winter and the better promotion of ventilation as part of the key message, NI....I still don't know enough about what they've done.
They should have been more willing to work together but, with knowledge gained up to this point, more often than not that would have meant Boris conceding ground to Sturgeon which you know was never going to happen.
Skip 5 Cobra meetings
Late lockdown
Shaking hands at a hospital
Ignoring emails about ventilators
Care homes tragedy
No mask mandate
PPE fiasco
Back Cummings
Sack civil servants
Exam confusion
Test trace farce
Eat out to help out
'Have Merry Little Xmas'
School confusion
Late lockdown
Vaccine hope
100k deaths
No border controls for first 3 months of pandemic
No strong border controls until now
At least he said sorry though, I can’t believe people aren’t angrier.
Calling the lack of available ventilators and process and sourcing for them ‘Operation Last Gasp’, which strangely didn’t upset the more sensitive flowers on here who have been outraged by a some comments on here. It’s ‘Boris’ though, such a character.
I’ll stand by my opinion that if Johnson had succumbed to Covid19, the UK would’ve combated the virus with a greater degree of success. *cue upset*
reminds me of Blackadder sending Baldrick and George into no mans land for operation "Certain Death"
I laughed at Johnson’s quote at the time. I was surprised it didn’t get picked up on more by the daisy brigade although the UK Covid-19 death toll was still under 100 and the cuuntwaffle hadn’t had the need to be hooked up to a ventilator himself yet.
reminds me of Blackadder sending Baldrick and George into no mans land for operation "Certain Death"
Heady days.
No.
There is far more than a few basic mistakes.
This doesnt go close.
I didn't intend to go into fine detail. I think the three headings are appropriate and you can add as much detail as you like to each
do you agree that Mark Drakeford and the Welsh government have made significant mistakes too?
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