Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[Feedback]

USA has just recently reached the tragic milestone of 200,000 Covid deaths. This in a country where the loony previous administration's mismanagement of the crisis has rightly attracted global distain. One wonders how many more would have succumbed had they taken the former President's advice and ingested disinfectant.

The USA has a population 5 times greater than the UK so in broad terms even if we had only suffered 40,000 deaths our Government should have been ashamed of their failure. Just what perspective does that put on losing 100k people? "Eat out to help out", "Get back to work if you're able", "Have yourselves a merry little Christmas'..... criminal?

I take your point but the Covid19 deaths in the USA is 425k as of today, not 200k. Its still not as bad as the UKs rate but its pretty grim.

"Dine out, help out" was a policy that was lauded at time, and helped a lot of business. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it

[Vindec]

Why does the welsh government being useless get the U.K. government off the hook for being absolute shite and killing 100,000 people

So the government has killed 100000 people? Is this the most ridiculous comment yet?

[jon1959]

Someone earlier in the thread was disputing the 100,000 deaths figure because it comes from deaths within 28 days of a positive test, and was saying 'excess deaths' is the only reliable measure of the effect of Covid. In the autumn there was a fair difference between the two measures, but now they are almost the same:

3 measures Covid deaths.jpg

[Croesy Blue]

So the government has killed 100000 people? Is this the most ridiculous comment yet?

100,00 excess deaths due to negligence from the government.

[Gofer Blue]

I cannot believe that HM Gov are still procrastinating about people arriving in the UK from abroad. Apart from British citizens who need to come back (although I would ask why are you abroad in the first place and why do you want to come back at this particular moment - presumably for some essential reason?), no-one should be allowed in at all, forget all this self isolation in hotels stuff. We are an island and yet we have the highest number of COVID deaths in Europe.

[Feedback]

Someone earlier in the thread was disputing the 100,000 deaths figure because it comes from deaths within 28 days of a positive test, and was saying 'excess deaths' is the only reliable measure of the effect of Covid. In the autumn there was a fair difference between the two measures, but now they are almost the same:

3 measures Covid deaths.jpg

Thats in the link I posted above and is a good graphic that shows the impact Covid19 has had on theUK

[Feedback]

100,00 excess deaths due to negligence from the government.

Part of it is caused by indecision and incompetence by WG and UKG, but joe much has been caused by other factors such as

People not staying home?
The UK being one of the most densely populated countries
Heathrow bring a transport hub

Etc etc

There is no one single factor that has caused this

[Vindec]

100,00 excess deaths due to negligence from the government.

I must have missed the fact that there have been 100000 excess deaths due to negligence. Have you a link? Excess deaths mean those over and above deaths that occur annually due to illnesses such as flu. Are you really suggesting that all 100000 people died due to the government's negligence?

[Jordi Culé]

he was saying that he took total responsibility for 100,000 deaths. But you know, I know and the country knows that health is devolved and his responsibilites for health are for England only. Glad to say he did not get into dividing the cake, he took it on in total.

Why on earth have we got a health minister in Wales who keeps on telling us that he makes this decision, that decision, the vaccine programme roll out etc?

Suppose, just suppose that Wales had got really low levels of Covid and a low death rate to go with it compared to other parts of UK. Do you really think Drakeford would say thanks to Boris for doing that. You can't have it both ways.

Health is devolved to the home nations and whatever you infer the responsibility for Wales health rests totally with the Senedd.

Thanks for that response.

Next question, as Johnson stated in his apology do you believe the government did everything they could do to minimise the loss of life?

[Croesy Blue]

I must have missed the fact that there have been 100000 excess deaths due to negligence. Have you a link? Excess deaths mean those over and above deaths that occur annually due to illnesses such as flu. Are you really suggesting that all 100000 people died due to the government's negligence?

I think we can put a big majority of those deaths on the U.K. government yes.

Especially when half of them have happened since November.

[Croesy Blue]

https://academictimes.com/south-kore...0-lives-in-uk/

[Croesy Blue]

Skip 5 Cobra meetings
Late lockdown
Shaking hands at a hospital
Ignoring emails about ventilators
Care homes tragedy
No mask mandate
PPE fiasco
Back Cummings
Sack civil servants
Exam confusion
Test trace farce
Eat out to help out
'Have Merry Little Xmas'
School confusion
Late lockdown
Vaccine hope
100k deaths
No border controls for first 3 months of pandemic
No strong border controls until now

At least he said sorry though, I can’t believe people aren’t angrier.

[Jordi Culé]

Skip 5 Cobra meetings
Late lockdown
Shaking hands at a hospital
Ignoring emails about ventilators
Care homes tragedy
No mask mandate
PPE fiasco
Back Cummings
Sack civil servants
Exam confusion
Test trace farce
Eat out to help out
'Have Merry Little Xmas'
School confusion
Late lockdown
Vaccine hope
100k deaths
No border controls for first 3 months of pandemic
No strong border controls until now

At least he said sorry though, I can’t believe people aren’t angrier.

Calling the lack of available ventilators and process and sourcing for them ‘Operation Last Gasp’, which strangely didn’t upset the more sensitive flowers on here who have been outraged by a some comments on here. It’s ‘Boris’ though, such a character.

I’ll stand by my opinion that if Johnson had succumbed to Covid19, the UK would’ve combated the virus with a greater degree of success. *cue upset*

[Vindec]

I think we can put a big majority of those deaths on the U.K. government yes.

Especially when half of them have happened since November.

You still haven't answered the question that 100000 deaths have been caused by negligence. You must know that is an outrageous statement which you cannot verify. Unless you are able to provide a link as requested I suggest we leave this conversation.

[Feedback]

Calling the lack of available ventilators and process and sourcing for them ‘Operation Last Gasp’, which strangely didn’t upset the more sensitive flowers on here who have been outraged by a some comments on here. It’s ‘Boris’ though, such a character.

I’ll stand by my opinion that if Johnson had succumbed to Covid19, the UK would’ve combated the virus with a greater degree of success. *cue upset*

reminds me of Blackadder sending Baldrick and George into no mans land for operation "Certain Death"

[Croesy Blue]

You still haven't answered the question that 100000 deaths have been caused by negligence. You must know that is an outrageous statement which you cannot verify. Unless you are able to provide a link as requested I suggest we leave this conversation.

What type of evidence would you like? The Government during the first wave saying 20,000 deaths would be a catastrophe, other countries of similar population and density having a much lower death rate? Do you not thing a large majority of those 100,000 deaths is due to the negligence and slow reactions of this government?

Why have Japan, South Korea, Taiwan all done better than us despite being closer to the epicentre? Why does even the US have lower deaths per capita than us?

Which part of that 100,000 being the fault of the government do you disagree with?

[Jordi Culé]

reminds me of Blackadder sending Baldrick and George into no mans land for operation "Certain Death"

I laughed at Johnson’s quote at the time. I was surprised it didn’t get picked up on more by the daisy brigade although the UK Covid-19 death toll was still under 100 and the cuuntwaffle hadn’t had the need to be hooked up to a ventilator himself yet.

Heady days.

[lisvaneblue]

Thanks for that response.

Next question, as Johnson stated in his apology do you believe the government did everything they could do to minimise the loss of life?

There have been some basic mistakes :

Firstly an ill prepared health service. Lack of PPE, lack of specialist equipment, lack of capacity. An organisation now ruled by bureaucracy and slow to react. There is no doubt the service needs more money and an organisational overall.

Secondly...Reluctance to act fast on lockdowns, then easing them too quickly, coupled with lax compliance by sectors of the public, modest punishment for rule breakers, plus a soft touch police force. A four nations approach caused confusion.

Third....muddled thinking...politics v science...created some big mistakes...care home residents returning after hospitalisation without tests, an inadequate track and trace system, delay in insistence on mask wearing, airports open etc

The one big plus for me is the speed in which we procured vaccines, and in quantity

[Hilts]

There have been some basic mistakes :

Firstly an ill prepared health service. Lack of PPE, lack of specialist equipment, lack of capacity. An organisation now ruled by bureaucracy and slow to react. There is no doubt the service needs more money and an organisational overall.

Secondly...Reluctance to act fast on lockdowns, then easing them too quickly, coupled with lax compliance by sectors of the public, modest punishment for rule breakers, plus a soft touch police force. A four nations approach caused confusion.

Third....muddled thinking...politics v science...created some big mistakes...care home residents returning after hospitalisation without tests, an inadequate track and trace system, delay in insistence on mask wearing, airports open etc

The one big plus for me is the speed in which we procured vaccines, and in quantity

No.

There is far more than a few basic mistakes.

This doesnt go close.

[lisvaneblue]

No.

There is far more than a few basic mistakes.

This doesnt go close.

I didn't intend to go into fine detail. I think the three headings are appropriate and you can add as much detail as you like to each

[surge]

While the EU vaccine fight heats up worth remembering that many countries haven't been able to vaccinate anyone yet. In the whole of Sub-Saharan Africa there have been 55 vaccinations.

https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1354495159396925440

We're either going to have to close our borders to these parts of the world for a long, long time or start helping out more. Probably both.

[Croesy Blue]

We're either going to have to close our borders to these parts of the world for a long, long time or start helping out more. Probably both.

In Fairness the one thing the UK has done well with is procurement of vaccines and being involved in covax which aims to give poorer countries access to vaccines.

Also we do have great scientists in this country so our sequencing of the cases has been excellent too.

[Feedback]

There have been some basic mistakes :

Firstly an ill prepared health service. Lack of PPE, lack of specialist equipment, lack of capacity. An organisation now ruled by bureaucracy and slow to react. There is no doubt the service needs more money and an organisational overall.

Secondly...Reluctance to act fast on lockdowns, then easing them too quickly, coupled with lax compliance by sectors of the public, modest punishment for rule breakers, plus a soft touch police force. A four nations approach caused confusion.

Third....muddled thinking...politics v science...created some big mistakes...care home residents returning after hospitalisation without tests, an inadequate track and trace system, delay in insistence on mask wearing, airports open etc

The one big plus for me is the speed in which we procured vaccines, and in quantity

I don't know why you bother, you're trying to push water uphill

[goats]

What type of evidence would you like? The Government during the first wave saying 20,000 deaths would be a catastrophe, other countries of similar population and density having a much lower death rate? Do you not thing a large majority of those 100,000 deaths is due to the negligence and slow reactions of this government?

Why have Japan, South Korea, Taiwan all done better than us despite being closer to the epicentre? Why does even the US have lower deaths per capita than us?

Which part of that 100,000 being the fault of the government do you disagree with?

Watched a documentary on Taiwan the other day, they said they’ve been preparing for this type event for 20 years, they were ready.
Reckon we had been?

[lardy]

Watched a documentary on Taiwan the other day, they said they’ve been preparing for this type event for 20 years, they were ready.
Reckon we had been?

The UK used to have one of the best pandemic response plans in the world. Lots of Asian countries actually copied it.

But in 2020, the UK government didn't follow it.