Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[Baloo]

If they wanted to divert from covid, they would probably choose something non-covid.

It looks like Michael Gove has been researching possible diversions.

[Heisenberg]

I certainly wasn't trying to defend the government, it was just that I had that Private Eye article to hand so I felt able to answer TOBW's question. I thought the headline of the article EC put up was a bit misleading and the use of 'appears' three words into it probably wasn't the best way to back it up. He's got a masters in journalism though so what do I know?

Private Eye were completely cynical about the government campaign and, I'm sure, will have more to say about it next time round. They do that kind of stuff really well, there's no need to sex it up.

I wasn't suggesting that you were trying to defend the Govt. Sorry if that's how it came across.

I was just bringing this story back as I thought it was relevant - it shows that the Tory Govt. have previous in paying newspapers to print their truth so it shouldn't be much of a surprise to people that they're doing similar now.

[Loramski]

I wasn't suggesting that you were trying to defend the Govt. Sorry if that's how it came across.

I was just bringing this story back as I thought it was relevant - it shows that the Tory Govt. have previous in paying newspapers to print their truth so it shouldn't be much of a surprise to people that they're doing similar now.

I was just looking for the Lance Armstrong trailer for a new documentary about him, your post reminded me of it. It finishes off with him saying 'I'm not going to lie to you Marina, I'm going to tell you...' then there's a momentary pause as he chooses his words '...my truth'. I'm sure it's always been the case but I'm more and more aware that truth and reality are becoming subjective concepts. Lance, Trump and Boris have been trailblazers in that regard.

[the other bob wilson]

I was just looking for the Lance Armstrong trailer for a new documentary about him, your post reminded me of it. It finishes off with him saying 'I'm not going to lie to you Marina, I'm going to tell you...' then there's a momentary pause as he chooses his words '...my truth'. I'm sure it's always been the case but I'm more and more aware that truth and reality are becoming subjective concepts. Lance, Trump and Boris have been trailblazers in that regard.

Funnily enough, I noticed that with the Lance Armstrong trailer - you are so right about truth and reality.

[CCFCC3PO]

Lockdown is being eased too soon, so say the scientists.

It appears that, for all of the people knocking him, Drakeford is still following the science. Johnson clearly isn't. Since we can't really close the border with England, if England catches a second wave, so will we and so will Scotland.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...n-sage-adviser

Are Johnson and Cummings easing the lockdown to remove the bad stories? Are they doing it based on London's figures only? Or are they doing it because other countries in Europe, who have not been anywhere near as badly hit as the UK, are easing their lockdowns?

Or is there some other reason?

Edmunds and Farrar are basically saying we are taking a risk in easing lockdown.

[The Lone Gunman]

Are Johnson and Cummings easing the lockdown to remove the bad stories? Are they doing it based on London's figures only? Or are they doing it because other countries in Europe, who have not been anywhere near as badly hit as the UK, are easing their lockdowns?

Or is there some other reason?

You've neglected to mention a crumbling economy, rising unemployment, a variety of other health issues and the fact that a significant and ever-growing percentage of the population are sick to the back teeth of living like this.

The simple fact of the matter is that a full-scale lockdown was always going to be a temporary measure. There are valid arguments to suggest it began too late or it wasn't stringent enough in the UK, but that's effectively in the past now. You only have to have walked the streets in recent weeks to realise that things have changed significantly and many of the predictions about how things will work going forward are fanciful at best.

The ideas of either an indefinite continuation of the current restrictions or a reintroduction of earlier restrictions if the infection rate rises again are unworkable. Personally, I don't see any value at all in suggestion the lockdown should continue. It's just pointless.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

You've neglected to mention a crumbling economy, rising unemployment, a variety of other health issues and the fact that a significant and ever-growing percentage of the population are sick to the back teeth of living like this.

The simple fact of the matter is that a full-scale lockdown was always going to be a temporary measure. There are valid arguments to suggest it began too late or it wasn't stringent enough in the UK, but that's effectively in the past now. You only have to have walked the streets in recent weeks to realise that things have changed significantly and many of the predictions about how things will work going forward are fanciful at best.

The ideas of either an indefinite continuation of the current restrictions or a reintroduction of earlier restrictions if the infection rate rises again are unworkable. Personally, I don't see any value at all in suggestion the lockdown should continue. It's just pointless.

Bloody hell. Never thought I'd read that !

[The Lone Gunman]

Bloody hell. Never thought I'd read that !

Why? It's been my pretty much my position all along.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Why? It's been my pretty much my position all along.

Hang on. I remember 'discussing' with you around 8 weeks ago about the authorities telling an old couple to clear off from Llandaff Fields. I've been a sceptic [as I am with a lot of things] about lockdown from day 1.

[xsnaggle]

You've neglected to mention a crumbling economy, rising unemployment, a variety of other health issues and the fact that a significant and ever-growing percentage of the population are sick to the back teeth of living like this.

The simple fact of the matter is that a full-scale lockdown was always going to be a temporary measure. There are valid arguments to suggest it began too late or it wasn't stringent enough in the UK, but that's effectively in the past now. You only have to have walked the streets in recent weeks to realise that things have changed significantly and many of the predictions about how things will work going forward are fanciful at best.

The ideas of either an indefinite continuation of the current restrictions or a reintroduction of earlier restrictions if the infection rate rises again are unworkable. Personally, I don't see any value at all in suggestion the lockdown should continue. It's just pointless.

I agree, I've said for weeks that people will push back against it eventually, and the bigger the divergence between governing bodies the harder people will push.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

I agree, I've said for weeks that people will push back against it eventually, and the bigger the divergence between governing bodies the harder people will push.

As Mark Drakeford says ".. this is not an invitation to go into a garden, have a few beers ...".

[The Lone Gunman]

As Mark Drakeford says ".. this is not an invitation to go into a garden, have a few beers ...".

People haven't needed an invitation for that. They've been doing it for at least a month already.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

To be honest, I think a large percentage of people have long since stopped considering the specifics (if they were ever concerned with them in the first place). Personally, I've never really understood the 'R' number. It's never made sense to me. I'm sure if I sat down and studied the theory I'd get it eventually, but I've not bothered to try and I'm absolutely certain that's the case with the majority of the public.

R is the number of pirate sightings within British waters.

[delmbox]

Is this true? Not been keeping up with the death counts this week. Crazy if it is

https://twitter.com/MikeCordingley/s...916943360?s=20

[CCFCC3PO]

Is this true? Not been keeping up with the death counts this week. Crazy if it is

https://twitter.com/MikeCordingley/s...916943360?s=20

That is true.

Today it is

Spain
Italy 111
Germany (so far 4 today)
France
Turkey
Belgium 23
Sweden 45
Portugal 13
Ireland
Poland 10
Romania 11
Hungary 7
Netherlands 20
UK 215

Average UK deaths per day over last 7 days (incl today) 243 (down 22.9%)
Same time last week, average was 315 (down 23.4%)
2 weeks ago, daily average was 411

New cases.
Average UK over last 7 days (incl today) 1948 (down 28.3%)
Same time last week, average was 2719 (down 23.6%)
2 weeks ago, daily average was 3557

[life on mars]

So have you as you know f all about me. Born Cardiff, raised on a council estate, made some money playing music in teens. Dad a fitter who had TB for years and we lived on the breadline. Only Christmas present I had one year was from the local Conservative Club. Pulled myself together after an ordinary education and made something of my life.

My wife's from Ton Pentre, dyed in the wool valley's girl and very proud of her history. I worked for many years as a rep in the Valley's areas, made many friends and have fond memories.

As for politics, Starmer would get my vote if there was an election tomorrow, but Drakeford wouldn't.

And I hope you do raise the Rhondda issue at your next Labour meeting because its cost lives

Nice. I know a lot of RCT folk who would agree with you .

One has to move on

[life on mars]

I do understand the concept (at least to a degree), but I think it's something the scientists, medical experts and politicians should have kept to themselves rather than make a key factor in their public discussions about the pandemic. I don't think it's helped at all. Indeed, I think it's not only confused the issue but it may have even given some people a false sense of security.

If they had said at the outset that if you have this virus you are likely to infect at least three more people and simply left it at that, I think the public would have understood it and the message would have been far more effective. However, by talking about getting the 'R' number down, saying stuff like 'the R is now between 0.5 and 0.8,' and displaying graphics claiming that one infected person is now infecting just 0.6 others, they've served only to complicate the issue.

I do agree .

The other worthless reported matter are graphs by country, it's never going to match whilst countries report differently , they a have different links to the outside world , some have ageing communities, different ethnicities, obesity, diabetics , Immne systems , reporting of covid on death certs are different , some countries have less care homes , some countries are less dense than ours , etc etc .

[Baloo]

I do agree .

The other worthless reported matter are graphs by country, it's never going to match whilst countries report differently , they a have different links to the outside world , some have ageing communities, different ethnicities, obesity, diabetics , Immne systems , reporting of covid on death certs are different , some countries have less care homes , some countries are less dense than ours , etc etc .

Does basing comparisons on excess deaths help to deal with these variables as suggested by the government?

[MOZZER2]

a cardiff city member of staff tests positive

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52863552

[CCFCC3PO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-52864454

[the other bob wilson]

Here's a couple of articles from May claiming the r rate is probably as low outside hospitals and care homes as you suggest;-

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...laims-11985343

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ostly-affects/

One is from an individual who it appears has some expertise on the subject and the other is a "government source" - I've always been cynical about quotes from Government sources, a feeling that has increased an awful lot over the last couple of months.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Here's a couple of articles from May claiming the r rate is probably as low outside hospitals and care homes as you suggest;-

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...laims-11985343

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ostly-affects/

One is from an individual who it appears has some expertise on the subject and the other is a "government source" - I've always been cynical about quotes from Government sources, a feeling that has increased an awful lot over the last couple of months.

Thanks Bob.

[Jordi Culé]

Thanks Bob.

That’ll teach me for acting the gobby twat.

I’m standing corrected and give myself the ‘dull as dogshit’ title.

Interesting that Tim Spector take is not being explored more by government. It suggests that containing the virus would be easier to manage and requires a more focus on certain areas.

[Jordi Culé]

Here's a couple of articles from May claiming the r rate is probably as low outside hospitals and care homes as you suggest;-

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...laims-11985343

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ostly-affects/

One is from an individual who it appears has some expertise on the subject and the other is a "government source" - I've always been cynical about quotes from Government sources, a feeling that has increased an awful lot over the last couple of months.

Another Professor Tim finding.

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/...missed-expert/

Me confused.

[delmbox]

I don't quite understand. England are currently on level 4 of the Covid alert system but they've now announced that the vulnerable people who've been shielding can leave the house on Monday. So how have they jumped from level 4 to level 1 overnight?

levels.jpg

It feels a bit like let's see what happens and hope for the best over the bridge at the moment, I'm glad we're letting them plough the road