Reply With QuoteBelieving that China 'would embrace democratic norms' is unbelievable naiveté by anyone's standards.Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
As for 'loving China' or not, it's important to separate opinions about the regime and the people.
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Saw this on Twitter and the author has quite a lot to say about China. Are his views realistic, or do we all love China?
THREAD: #Covid19 exposes grave political miscalculations behind decades of western geo-strategic relations with China. We sleepwalked into a supply-side over-dependency, believing China would embrace democratic norms. We’ve been played. China is now on a war footing. Here’s how:
— أبو عمّار (@MaajidNawaz) April 16, 2020
Believing that China 'would embrace democratic norms' is unbelievable naiveté by anyone's standards.
As for 'loving China' or not, it's important to separate opinions about the regime and the people.
Facebook version: https://www.facebook.com/13577528315...1412362592676/
Did you read the whole thing?
Wow!
IMHO, he is spot on.
We have our c*nting politicians to thank for this mess. They take inducements from the globalists, who just want to get even richer at everyone else’s expense; hence the ubiquitous ‘Made in China’ tags on everything. China has gotten filthy rich as a result and can now buy/bribe its way into other nations’ natural resources. Again, politicians take bribes and allow this to happen.
Having worked in government and seen the machinations of fraud and deceit, I’d say we are ****ed.
And as for covid19 - the governments will borrow from the globalist banks, who will create the money out of nothing, and our children will be debt slaves.
Governments are getting more totalitarian and our rights are eroding.
Still. Got to keep cheery, eh? 😊👍
No, I haven't - although the author seems to acknowledge that he was wrong in having that belief, whatever that belief was based on.
Happy to read about the fine tuning after my morning's session at work and I should add that I don't need to embed myself on any side of a dogmatic argument of any description per se. I don't know it all and don't pretend that I do.
Interesting, allegedly worth £750,000 a year to them.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...d-for-by-china
The Daily Telegraph has stopped publishing paid-for propaganda on behalf of Chinese state media, amid growing scrutiny of how Beijing is using the pandemic to grow its influence in English-language media aimed at western audiences.
Torygraph.jpg
The long-running China Watch section appeared in print supplements and on the Telegraph website.
He may well be right (stopped clock etc) but maajid is no more than a shock jock these days. He has forged himself himself quite a lucrative career and so it is no shock to see him not 'on the fence'.
The Americans supported by the West should not ring China with their missiles, they have done the same to Russia, America did not like it when the Russians had missiles on their doorstep in Cuba in the past so America should remember the Cuban missile crisis and realise that obviously the Chinese and Russians don't like it when they have military build ups on their doorsteps either.
I don't think you have to take a side per se, the guy is expressing a strong opinion upon which people will either agree or disagree. I've seen him on UK & US TV and read a few print interviews, and I believe he's also on LBC radio too. He definitely isn't naive, although the piece could very well end up swaying public opinion against China, whether it's intentional or not.
Pilger done one of his documentary films on this back in 2016.
The Facebook Post with its READ AND SHARE rejoinder is written as if it is some kind of startling insight. China has prospered because it exports far more than it imports whilst countries like the US are the opposite. That has to be paid for somehow so countries like China own a lot of US bonds, capital and debt. They have also used this surplus cash to invest in areas such as West Africa on infrastructure projects to harness the raw materials there. To suggest that the rest of the world sleep-walked into this is nonsense.
I think the biggest thing that has changed and an area for worry is turning President Xi into President for life rather than a two term as previously. This sort of dictatorship rarely ends well for the country concerned or the world at large. The transparency around their early handling of the emergence of Covid-19 may be one symptom of this.
The OP posed only questions rather than his views. I know he has been previously forthright that China was on the wane due to some sort of global realignment so would be interested in the case for this argument in the light of what has just been posted.
Pilger's docu film on the topic is called 'The coming war on China', it's about 2 hours long.
That's one anomaly, the author is an anti-Trumper, and yet he is advocating for Trump's economic policies. I think a big reason for China's success is that they have managed to bribe countless foreign politicians and other assorted persons of influence, which has helped them considerably over the years.
BTW the FISA abuse declassification is available for browsing, and since you showed such a great interest in the topic I look forward to hearing your views, even though it goes against everything that you had to say on the subject.
Some staggering insight there. It would never have occurred to me that politicians and persons of influence could be bribed. Amazing stuff.
Not on this scale, and to such a detriment of the host country.
The international situation is quite fragile at the moment. Trump in the Whitehouse (and the eternal influence in American politics of big money), Putin's oligarchy in Russia and the expansionist actions of the Chinese in the South China Sea.
If countries in the latter area were to co-operate even a bigger shift would take place to the power and influence in that area. However, there are huge tensions between many of the players concerned. In the very first international meeting I attended between UK government officials and officials from several of those countries I was merely employed as a 'bed bolster' to separate two particular parties.
Funnily enough I never mentioned Trump. Do you some kind of syndrome about him or something?
Spot on, and that is why I posted this on the main board, as I don't think everybody realises just how close to the edge we really are.
You wrote "China has prospered because it exports far more than it imports whilst countries like the US are the opposite". Maajid highlighted that fact, and Trump is putting an end to it, so they are on the same page politically which is a bit of an anomaly. Let me know if you need any more help.
Donald Trump is President of the USA and you think people don't realise we're in big trouble? Seriously?!?
Yeah I need help with this bit!
The OP posed only questions rather than his views. I know he has been previously forthright that China was on the wane due to some sort of global realignment so would be interested in the case for this argument in the light of what has just been posted.
I thought that was pretty obvious, America changed their econmic priorities, while simultaneously renegotiating the trade deal with China. I don't think anybody is blaming China for what they did, because it was the previous administrations that let them get away with it.
You mean the reason we are in trouble is because he is president?
I don't beleive it either, its nonsense.
I think he must have been bribed to say that!
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