A challenge to Organ Morgan

[Organ Morgan.]

For the record, I've posted under this moniker for circa 12 years. Before then I was Balderdash. Have never used any others. Organ Morgan relates to harmonicas (mouth organs, which I play and own many types of) and not Thomas' Under Milk Wood character. Trampie further up this thread has a similar writing style to I and I'm not surprised some have made a wrong conclusion.

[Organ Morgan.]

You've done all this research yet still haven't clicked that the death rate isn't the big issue with covid?

When was the last strain of flu that killed this many people and overwhelmed the hospitals in the UK?

When was the last strain of flu with an infection rate so bad that new hospitals had to be set up in the UK because all ICU beds were full?

I've said to you at least twice prior that I do not believe UK hospitals are overwhelmed. I haven't been inside one - have you? - and unlike you I don't readily believe much of what corporate media tells me is true. Again, 11 million Britons were infected in 1918 with Spanish Flu and the same again in 1957 with Asian Flu. You tell me how the UK economy remained open in those years and the health service managed to treat 11 million but somehow are overwhelmed with 100K COVID-19 cases currently, which is less than 1% of 11 million.

[Organ Morgan.]

I don't know who is at the end of this farce. Organ or the people entertaining it. Mind you, i suppose entertainment is at a premium for some at the moment.

I'll make a new thread at the Politics forum this afternoon which will be titled Plandemic.

It will be for the benefit of people like you who have been thoroughly suckered by this gigantic hoax. It's not a hoax in the sense that people are not dying with COVID-19. The hoax entails blowing the threat out of all proportion and by the restrictions used to contain it.

It will include two links:- one to a WHO page, another to a UK government one. I'm sure that even you amongst many others who simply refuse to consider you have been fed tons of arrant bullshit will have an extremely hard time reconciling what is stated at those links.

I'd create it at this forum but I made a promise to another user not to start a COVID-19 one here.

[Croesy Blue]

I've said to you at least twice prior that I do not believe UK hospitals are overwhelmed. I haven't been inside one - have you? - and unlike you I don't readily believe much of what corporate media tells me is true. Again, 11 million Britons were infected in 1918 with Spanish Flu and the same again in 1957 with Asian Flu. You tell me how the UK economy remained open in those years and the health service managed to treat 11 million but somehow are overwhelmed with 100K COVID-19 cases currently, which is less than 1% of 11 million.

My aunt is an ICU nurse and I have 2 friends who are doctors I can tell you hospitals are overwhelmed.

For your second points it’s because covid has a higher hospitalisation rate. That’s one of the reasons why it’s so bad.

What is the corporate media telling me? The statistics are there for all to see, you don’t have to see it through the media. The thing is you don’t seem to be willing to accept any fact that goes against your view. How can anyone ever discuss anything with you? As soon as something comes up that doesn’t back you up you call it spin or a hoax.

I know doctors, I know people who’ve had covid and I have colleagues who’ve lost people due to covid. It’s all really happening, maybe it’s harder to see if you live in some remote village and haven’t had reason to leave your house for 6 weeks but for me the effects of covid are very easy to see and very real.

[lardy]

You're another troll who cannot let prior disputes go because your ego is too precious and fragile. You're an overgrown kid. The miserly hermit comment marks a new low in your sulk-fest.

lardy's a meanie, a STINKY MEANIE

[rudy gestede]

I've said to you at least twice prior that I do not believe UK hospitals are overwhelmed. I haven't been inside one - have you? - and unlike you I don't readily believe much of what corporate media tells me is true. Again, 11 million Britons were infected in 1918 with Spanish Flu and the same again in 1957 with Asian Flu. You tell me how the UK economy remained open in those years and the health service managed to treat 11 million but somehow are overwhelmed with 100K COVID-19 cases currently, which is less than 1% of 11 million.

How much of a hermit are you that you can’t see all this going on? Maybe you should get off the Internet a bit and talk to some real people. This isn’t all going on in a far off place, it’s all happening in the real world right in front of you.

How can you not know 1 person who works in a hospital?

[Organ Morgan.]

lardy's a meanie, a STINKY MEANIE

After a period of reflection, I will concede you have a valid point - I'm as tight as feck!

[The Lone Gunman]

It will be for the benefit of people like you who have been thoroughly suckered by this gigantic hoax. It's not a hoax in the sense that people are not dying with COVID-19. The hoax entails blowing the threat out of all proportion and by the restrictions used to contain it.

Did you see the figures released yesterday relating to the large and disproportionate number of all deaths during the last few weeks? If so, what did you make of them?

Link here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52278825

[Organ Morgan.]

How much of a hermit are you that you can’t see all this going on? Maybe you should get off the Internet a bit and talk to some real people. This isn’t all going on in a far off place, it’s all happening in the real world right in front of you.

How can you not know 1 person who works in a hospital?

Let's say I know one person who works in a hospital. Would his or her experiences where they work be indicative of all other hospitals? I ask because I know you have a simplistic outlook.

Be sure to catch my Plandemic thread later today. It will be dumbed-down to an extent that you will be able to comprehend it.

[lardy]

How much of a hermit are you that you can’t see all this going on? Maybe you should get off the Internet a bit and talk to some real people. This isn’t all going on in a far off place, it’s all happening in the real world right in front of you.

How can you not know 1 person who works in a hospital?

I have a friend who is an occupational therapist. Not on the front line at all, but each day when she comes home from work, she sterilises the car, takes all her clothes off inside the front door, throws them in the washing machine and has a long hot shower.

Then she says hello to her young children and hugs them.

She's totally unconnected to the really horrible stuff that goes on in the hospital. It's sad that someone needs to see something with their own eyes to believe it. Although I genuinely hope Organ Morgan doesn't see it, because that would mean he's become seriously ill.

[rudy gestede]

Yes I agree I hope Organ is staying safe at least.

[Croesy Blue]

Let's say I know one person who works in a hospital. Would his or her experiences where they work be indicative of all other hospitals? I ask because I know you have a simplistic outlook.

Be sure to catch my Plandemic thread later today. It will be dumbed-down to an extent that you will be able to comprehend it.

I live a few miles from the excel would you like me to go and take some photos for you? I know someone who was involved in setting it up and will be involved in working there while it's needed. It's all real mate, maybe there is a ploy to use it to crash the economy (although that seems like a very simplistic conspiracy tbh), but how bad the virus is and how it's affecting hopsitals and hospital workers is not a hoax or an exaggeration, it's real.

[The Lone Gunman]

Credit to you for acknowledging you haven't spent a great deal of time researching COVID-19. I have paid a lot of attention to it and to previous pandemics. It's why I knew the death/infection numbers for Spanish and Asian Flu here and elsewhere, how many croak the world over from seasonal flu strains, which are also contagious viruses, that kill more people each year than COVID-19 has thus far, and that none of them were combated by closing down large areas of economic activity, social distancing and all the rest of what we're witnessing.

Isn't the section I've highlighted the most pertinent? As far as I can make out, we're not anywhere near the end of this global pandemic, so isn't quoting seasonal numbers of deaths from other illnesses a bit pointless at this stage? The consensus among scientists and medical experts seems to be that Covid-19 is highly infectious and allowing it to spread unchecked would be catastrophic. I'm not sure I understand why you and others won't acknowledge that relatively simple notion. It's not about the numbers that have died thus far and it never has been. It's about attempting to halt the progress of the virus and therefore limiting the amount of deaths and the strain on worldwide health services.

[Croesy Blue]

I have a friend who is an occupational therapist. Not on the front line at all, but each day when she comes home from work, she sterilises the car, takes all her clothes off inside the front door, throws them in the washing machine and has a long hot shower.

Then she says hello to her young children and hugs them.

She's totally unconnected to the really horrible stuff that goes on in the hospital. It's sad that someone needs to see something with their own eyes to believe it. Although I genuinely hope Organ Morgan doesn't see it, because that would mean he's become seriously ill.

Yeah my Grandad has heart issues and really needs to be hospital at the moment but can't because of how dangerous it is for an old person to be there.

My colleague has a graveside funeral for his mother in law today, only a small number of them are allowed to attend and they weren't allowed to see her at all while she was ill and dying.

I find it crazy that someone could ignore all the very real evidence of how bad this is. And it's this bad while all the restrictions are in place, I can only imagine how bad it would be otherwise.

[Croesy Blue]

Isn't the section I've highlighted the most pertinent? As far as I can make out, we're not anywhere near the end of this global pandemic, so isn't quoting seasonal numbers of deaths from other illnesses a bit pointless at this stage? The consensus among scientists and medical experts seems to be that Covid-19 is highly infectious and allowing it to spread unchecked would be catastrophic. I'm not sure I understand why you and others won't acknowledge that relatively simple notion. It's not about the numbers that have died thus far and it never has been. It's about attempting to halt the progress of the virus and therefore limiting the amount of deaths and the strain on worldwide health services.

He has ignored that question for weeks becasue it undermines his whole theory.

[Organ Morgan.]

Did you see the figures released yesterday relating to the large and disproportionate number of all deaths during the last few weeks? If so, what did you make of them?

Link here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52278825

I hadn't read it but saw a news item about it. Without wishing to sound callous, the numbers don't justify hamstringing the economy.

[Croesy Blue]

I hadn't read it but saw a news item about it. Without wishing to sound callous, the numbers don't justify hamstringing the economy.

So we've hamstrung the economy and we've already had 12,000+ deaths, how many do you think we would have without these restrictions in place?

[Organ Morgan.]

Yes I agree I hope Organ is staying safe at least.

At last, a post of yours that I fully endorse.

[The Lone Gunman]

Let's say I know one person who works in a hospital. Would his or her experiences where they work be indicative of all other hospitals?

I have five friends who work in hospitals and three of those work on what could be described as the front line. All of them are regularly posting messages on Facebook asking everyone to follow the guidelines. Thankfully, only one (who works in England) seems to be really struggling at the moment. The four who work in Wales appear busy but things where they work seem to be just about under control.

Meanwhile, my mate's mum, who retired as a nurse about eighteen months ago, has gone back to work on her old ward, freeing up another member of staff to concentrate on Covid-19 patients, and I noticed yesterday that the doctor who has been my GP for most of my life and who retired a couple of years ago has also gone back to work.

If this is all a hoax, it's a pretty far-reaching one.

[The Lone Gunman]

I hadn't read it but saw a news item about it. Without wishing to sound callous, the numbers don't justify hamstringing the economy.

During a pandemic of this nature, wouldn't the economy be pretty much hamstrung anyway? Sure, plenty of idiots would attempt to go about their daily routines as usual, but with a virus like this one on the loose doesn't it stand to reason that most people wouldn't be out and about shopping or eating or going to the pub or the theatre or spending money in their other normal ways anyway?

[Organ Morgan.]

So we've hamstrung the economy and we've already had 12,000+ deaths, how many do you think we would have without these restrictions in place?

That's anyone's guess. I'd say a similar number to that of leaving the economy open while urging those most at risk to stay indoors to protect their health by way of relaying government adverts with that message during every commercial break. I was struck yesterday by the percentage of oldies out and about... and of the say, 5%, of all people viewed who wore masks, I didn't spot any elderly with one on.

[Organ Morgan.]

During a pandemic of this nature, wouldn't the economy be pretty much hamstrung anyway? Sure, plenty of idiots would attempt to go about their daily routines as usual, but with a virus like this one on the loose doesn't it stand to reason that most people wouldn't be out and about shopping or eating or going to the pub or the theatre or spending money in their other normal ways anyway?

Gunman, I've grown weary of repeating the same message. In both 1918 and 1957 everyone just got on with it to let the virus burn through and do its worst. People were free to take their own precautions.

[Croesy Blue]

That's anyone's guess. I'd say a similar number to that of leaving the economy open while urging those most at risk to stay indoors to protect their health by way of relaying government adverts with that message during every commercial break. I was struck yesterday by the percentage of oldies out and about... and of the say, 5%, of all people viewed who wore masks, I didn't spot any elderly with one on.

It's not anyone's guess though, there are pretty accurate statistical models that look at this. Even if you look at the best case ones with no restrictions there would be an exponential increase in infections and deaths, even if you are isolating the most at risk.

I'm not sure what your point is about seeing people out and about, there's nothing wrong with getting some fresh air. Living in London the number of people on the streets and in the parks near us must be about 1% of what it normally is at this time of year, so keeping distance is very easy, I assume that's the same elsewhere too.

[Croesy Blue]

Gunman, I've grown weary of repeating the same message. In both 1918 and 1957 everyone just got on with it to let the virus burn through and do its worst. People were free to take their own precautions.

It's almost like the situtations are very different in all aspects of the virus and life since 1918!

We are likely to have 20,000 deaths by the end of next week. If we'd had zero restrictions we would have been looking at at least 100,000 (and that's being optimistic). Would having a couple of months without restrictions made enough difference to the economy for you to let 100,000 people die in a month?

Even with the restrictions this is going to alter our way of live at least for the next 6 months. Do you not think it would have been even worse without the restrictions?

[delmbox]

You're a troll, pure and simple. Even if you weren't I'd struggle to engage with you as you never have anything to add that's insightful.

Classic, I just won't let you carry on pretending you're knowledgable and that the previous utter nonsense you've spouted on this topic didn't happen.

In the very post of yours above the one I've quoted here you're trying to one up TLG by saying how much you know about this pandemic and others, yet just a few short weeks ago you were insisting (again, knowledgably) the Chinese invented it to control their population and that only Asian people would get it, which has turned out to be utter, utter embarrassing nonsense. You can't deny that, it's all there in writing, and it doesn't fit into this little picture you're trying to paint that you're a clever guy so when I point it out to you your only answer is to say you don't want to engage because "I'm a troll"

You can pretend you're anything other than a conspiracy theorist who doesn't have a clue as much as you want but unfortunately for you the proof is all there in your post history.

My hypothesis is it's a mild form of flu released by the ChiComs that's not life threatening to anyone other than east Asians and is less of a risk to east Asians themselves than the flu umpteen thousands die of every year when bronchitis or pneumonia set in. Put another way, it's tons of hype with very little substance to those who choose to look beyond the hype, which you and others appear incapable of.

And how many Brighton residents have turned their toes up?

Wake me up when just one amongst billions of non Asians snuff it. 1,000 coronavirus dead from a world population of 7.7 billion (says the latest UN estimate) is a gigantic nothing burger.

THAT'S how knowledgable you are about pandemics and we all know it