Is England allowing Wales and Scotland to go without PPE ?

[xsnaggle]

What about £100,000,000,000 which is what they are projecting its costs as being? How is that money being spent on a high speed railway in England going to benefit the taxpayer? Is £100bn going to be the final cost or will it keep growing exponentially as it has done so far?

Sorry, I've got a lot of questions about how idiotic I think this 'project' is.

I understand your point but part of the increase in cost is due to the length of time it has taked to overcome all the objections, both good and bad, and the resolution systems that deal with them. In a lot of other country (Good or bad) they would have been dismissed or upheld by a committee and the work would have started years ago. A little like the M4 relief which has been banging on for years. god knows how much it has cost, probably more than if they had just built the thing. I can recall 10/11 years ago listening to the then Chancellor Alistair Darling discussing HS2 on the phone, and then he was saying that it could run up to £50 million, and that was before all the delays.
All that said I think on balance it is better for the country as a whole that it is built rather than not built.

[Wozza16]

All the devolved laws that have been given by the UK Government are ones that the UK Government want to give away, NHS etc. They don't care how the money is used as it's given by the barnett formula which more than likely saves them money in the long run, set up, admin, maintenance etc considering most of the infrastructure is already old.

A huge issue is how HS2 can use Welsh tax payers money as it is a Wales/England railway due to rail not being devolved, this is absolutely criminal as not 1 metre of track will be in Wales. All while it has been forecast it will negatively impact the Welsh economy by £100million per year. I wonder if the devolution of the Valley lines has been halted on purpose so Westminster doesn't have to give any of the 100Billion HS2 forecast via the Barnett formula? Once work has started then the devolution of the valley infrastructure will magically be completed.

In regards to the Assembly, Labour is the issue, not devolution. Anybody in charge for 20+ years will be complacent due to the confidence of being voted in time after time, if Labour get voted out of the Senedd next year they will improve by the time the next election comes around. I was originally a Labour supporter but due to their incompetency I will be voting Plaid next year, I would even prefer the Tories get in over Labour next year if Plaid aren't able to raise enough support as Labour are in need of a wake up call.

[Penywaun gentrified]

'People haven't been mentioning proportional partners' because it's bleedin' obvious and doesn't need explaining. Do you really think those of us who believe we get short changed by London think we should get 'equal' funding- 3 million people getting the same as 50 odd million? Per person in relation to the population. Jesus wept.
That's the simple part, but you have to consider socio-economic factors and reflect that in the funding to address the disparity between the wealthier areas of England and most areas of Wales. Sorry, this is probably over your head.

[tell it like it is]

What about £100,000,000,000 which is what they are projecting its costs as being? How is that money being spent on a high speed railway in England going to benefit the taxpayer? Is £100bn going to be the final cost or will it keep growing exponentially as it has done so far?

Sorry, I've got a lot of questions about how idiotic I think this 'project' is.

Benefit the taxpayer? Increased connections, faster travel mean more attractive for companies to locate outside South East bubble for example... stimulate economy midlands / north etc...

[Heisenberg]

Benefit the taxpayer? Increased connections, faster travel mean more attractive for companies to locate outside South East bubble for example... stimulate economy midlands / north etc...

How long until that £100,000,000,000 moves back into the UK economy do you reckon... with all of this projected stimulation in the Midlands/north etc?

[tell it like it is]

How long until that £100,000,000,000 moves back into the UK economy do you reckon... with all of this projected stimulation in the Midlands/north etc?

It's always going to be a long term issue... which tbf is bleedingly obvious.

[Heisenberg]

It's always going to be a long term issue... which tbf is bleedingly obvious.

That's fine then. As long as it's just "long term" and the experts in the Govt. haven't given any projections of when we can start seeing some positive economic difference from it. Why should they, it's only doubling in cost every few years and they aren't known for spending money on vanity projects.

It's not as if the rest of the country (UK) couldn't use better transport networks for prospective businesses is it? Not even high speed networks, just an actual rail service.

One hundred billion pounds is f**king mental for building something that isn't required and they have been cutting services for over a decade because "we can't afford them"

I have an inkling that if it was a Labour project then you might be looking at it differently. Something along the lines of it would show how they messed up the planning so badly that costs have spiralled, there have been countless delays and they can't manage the economy.

I also have an inkling that you'll say that you'd be saying the same thing as you're saying now, but we all know that would be a lie.

[xsnaggle]

Heisenberg, I've never been a great lover of centralisation but if I could vote on 1 thing that should never be de-nationalised it would be the railways. It never made sense and it still doesn't, and any party that promises to re-nationalise it for the good it will do and not just for party political reasons would get my vote. I love train travel and if the service was good enough I'd choose it over driving every time. But I'm afraid its a big IF.
I think the new metro system is essensial and now is a good time to start the work as the train numbers are so greatly reduced.

[Heisenberg]

Heisenberg, I've never been a great lover of centralisation but if I could vote on 1 thing that should never be de-nationalised it would be the railways. It never made sense and it still doesn't, and any party that promises to re-nationalise it for the good it will do and not just for party political reasons would get my vote. I love train travel and if the service was good enough I'd choose it over driving every time. But I'm afraid its a big IF.
I think the new metro system is essensial and now is a good time to start the work as the train numbers are so greatly reduced.

That sounds like a reasoned response, cheers :cheers:

I just don't understand how spending £100bn on a high speed rail network between London and Wigan (it will take another 20 years before it will be totally completed though) can be defended
by people when there's probably thousands of more pressing concerns in this country which will get overlooked because "we don't have the budget for it".

Just pisses me off, if I'm being totally honest.

[Penywaun gentrified]

Agree with all the above re. HST. The real twist of the knife was defining it as a 'national ' scheme and not an English scheme. This ensured Westminster didn't have to trigger extra compensatory transport funding to Wales. Cynical.