Seems care homes suffering across Europe

[life on mars]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836

Care home residents account for nearly half of deaths linked to Covid-19 in Sweden. Some healthcare workers believe an institutional reluctance to admit patients to hospital is costing lives.

Sweden did ban visits to care homes on 31 March. But as in many European countries, relatives, staff and union officials have shared concerns that protective clothing arrived too late, and that some staff may have gone to work at the start of the crisis despite showing symptoms of Covid-19.

Now, increasing numbers of workers are also coming forward to criticise regional healthcare authorities for protocols which they say discourage care home workers from sending residents into hospital, and prevent care home and nursing staff from administering oxygen without a doctor's approval, either as part of acute or palliative (end-of-life) services.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836

Care home residents account for nearly half of deaths linked to Covid-19 in Sweden. Some healthcare workers believe an institutional reluctance to admit patients to hospital is costing lives.

Sweden did ban visits to care homes on 31 March. But as in many European countries, relatives, staff and union officials have shared concerns that protective clothing arrived too late, and that some staff may have gone to work at the start of the crisis despite showing symptoms of Covid-19.

Now, increasing numbers of workers are also coming forward to criticise regional healthcare authorities for protocols which they say discourage care home workers from sending residents into hospital, and prevent care home and nursing staff from administering oxygen without a doctor's approval, either as part of acute or palliative (end-of-life) services.

Isn't Sweden one of those countries that have gone for herd immunity? I've even read (unconfirmed) reports of coronavirus parties out there where people are actively trying to get the virus.

[Wales-Bales]

It's a huge scandal what happened in many care homes around the world and somehow they all managed to follow the same course of action, which begs the question where did the directive come from, or was it coincidental that the same thing occurred in many different countries?

[jon1959]

It's a huge scandal what happened in many care homes around the world and somehow they all managed to follow the same course of action, which begs the question where did the directive come from, or was it coincidental that the same thing occurred in many different countries?

You think there was a 'directive'?

I won't believe it unless I hear it direct from Organ Morgan!

[Wales-Bales]

You think there was a 'directive'?

I won't believe it unless I hear it direct from Organ Morgan!

[jon1959]

You were saying there was 'a directive' that led to the scandal of 'many care homes around the world' that 'all managed to follow the same course of action'. As if it was a global plan.... You have posted a directive issued in New York. That wasn't issued to care homes in St Albans, Malmo or Brussles! You are claiming or implying a conspiracy when there wasn't one.

Elwood has probably got it right - they all got it wrong.

The ones who got it less wrong were the ones who had an effective test and tracing system in place, where care homes had adequate PPE, and where patients who were discharged from hospital to care homes were quarantined for 14 days whether or not they had Covid 19 symptoms.

[Wales-Bales]

You were saying there was 'a directive' that led to the scandal of 'many care homes around the world' that 'all managed to follow the same course of action'. As if it was a global plan.... You have posted a directive issued in New York. That wasn't issued to care homes in St Albans, Malmo or Brussles! You are claiming or implying a conspiracy when there wasn't one.

Elwood has probably got it right - they all got it wrong.

The ones who got it less wrong were the ones who had an effective test and tracing system in place, where care homes had adequate PPE, and where patients who were discharged from hospital to care homes were quarantined for 14 days whether or not they had Covid 19 symptoms.

You better read what I said again.

[Elwood Blues]

It's a huge scandal what happened in many care homes around the world and somehow they all managed to follow the same course of action, which begs the question where did the directive come from, or was it coincidental that the same thing occurred in many different countries?

I've seen reports from Germany France Italy and Spain saying that they have all made mistakes as far as Care Homes are concerned.

Same with PPE.

[Wales-Bales]

I've seen reports from Germany France Italy and Spain saying that they have all made mistakes as far as Care Homes are concerned.

Same with PPE.

New York was a massacre, the governor even passed a directive stating the care homes had to accept the Covid-19 infected patients who were cleared out from the hospital's.

[Elwood Blues]

You think there was a 'directive'?

I won't believe it unless I hear it direct from Organ Morgan!

I think they just all got it wrong.

[life on mars]

It's a huge scandal what happened in many care homes around the world and somehow they all managed to follow the same course of action, which begs the question where did the directive come from, or was it coincidental that the same thing occurred in many different countries?

I think medical and viral scientists have a very clinical view on matters like herding and the elderly, that might shock us .

[life on mars]

I've seen reports from Germany France Italy and Spain saying that they have all made mistakes as far as Care Homes are concerned.

Same with PPE.

Surely not I thought that was all the Tories fault ?

[the other bob wilson]

Surely not I thought that was all the Tories fault ?

I've noticed that, increasingly, Conservative party supporters like you (and no matter how much you try to deny that, it is how you are coming over on here) are having to resort to a "they're doing their best" defence when it comes to the virus. This follows on from weeks of answers from Ministers at briefings about how hard the Government are working on something when they're asked an awkward question - frankly, that's the very least we should expect from a Government in the situation we find ourselves in.

The irony is that at least some of these Government supporters have always jumped on the Labour was to blame for the world wide crisis which occurred in 2008 bandwagon, so, if I was to use that sort of logic, then I should be saying that the Conservative party is responsible for COVID 19. I won't do that because it is plainly a ludicrous argument, just as ludicrous as the one about the UK Government being culpable for the 2008 crash.

However, what happened in 2008 in this country may not have been quite so serious were it not for the haste and enthusiasm the Labour Government showed for the sort of financial deregulation which led to the dodgy dealings by banks that caused the problem - we were always going to take a hit, but it wouldn't have been such a big one were it not for the desire of Conservative and Labour Governments to "cut red tape" so much.

It may well be that problems in care homes turn out to be something of a common theme throughout the world when there is the chance to conduct an unbiased and forensic analysis of the subject, but, just as in 2008, it is a question of degree and all but the most sycophantic and one eyed opinion we see so far on how the Government dealt with the virus is critical of it to varying degrees - for example;-

https://www.civilserviceworld.com/ar...2%80%99-spread

While accepting that, currently, claims such as we are "top of the league" when it comes to deaths in Europe are arguable because of the different ways of collecting and interpreting such data in the countries that make up the continent, I can say though that I know of no statistical or more general analysis which concludes that the UK has dealt with the virus well - as always, I admit I'm biased against the Conservatives, but that's of little consequence here because hardly anybody is coming up with a convincing defence of the Government, hence the prevalence of the "they're doing their best" line.

[life on mars]

It's an awful plan , presume it was too enable bed space for Corvid victims , I should imagine this was mirrored by many countries throughout world.

As the life expectancy of care homes is sadly 20 months it will be intresting to view the fatalities next year if Corvid is gone by then which I doubt.

This awful virus does prey on the weak and vulnerable ??

Thanks China we owe you one .
🤔

[tell it like it is]

Just 21% of UK Covid deaths come from care homes, a lower percentage than most comparable EU countries.

No doubt that's the evil Tories fault, Bob et al will probably claim Johnson et al are stealthily going into EU care homes and deliberately poisoning their residents.

[the other bob wilson]

Just 21% of UK Covid deaths come from care homes, a lower percentage than most comparable EU countries.

No doubt that's the evil Tories fault, Bob et al will probably claim Johnson et al are stealthily going into EU care homes and deliberately poisoning their residents.

Talk about clutching at straws! I purposely did not single out care homes because I don't think there is the data out there yet to draw firm conclusions about them, but, assuming the 21 per cent figure is correct, that must mean that something has gone badly wrong elsewhere given the total number of deaths in England.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Just 21% of UK Covid deaths come from care homes, a lower percentage than most comparable EU countries.

The problem for everyone is statistics are being generated on the fly, we're potentially seeing issues across nations in terms of the way they are collated etc. I don't think any nation will have "true" figures for a very long time.

confused.com

[Trigger]

Mix of clearing out of hospitals, proximity of x amount of residents to each other and the private companies that run them failing to purchase and keep enough ppe for staff, particularly at the start.

Mistakes everywhere.

[tell it like it is]

Mix of clearing out of hospitals, proximity of x amount of residents to each other and the private companies that run them failing to purchase and keep enough ppe for staff, particularly at the start.

Mistakes everywhere.

Seems a lot of EU nations, including Germany, have made more mistakes around care homes than UK government...

[Croesy Blue]

Seems a lot of EU nations, including Germany, have made more mistakes around care homes than UK government...

That's ok then we should just let them away with it

[jon1959]

You better read what I said again.

Twice was enough.

[Wales-Bales]

Twice was enough.

You missed the "or" then.

[jon1959]

You missed the "or" then.

No.

But if it makes you happy your Organ-lite post was a proposing a genuine choice between conspiracy and coincidence to explain care home deaths across Europe. Coincidence would be the right answer - even if you doubled down on your original purpose of promoting conspiracy with a post of a directive (not from Europe) to move elderly patients from hospital into care homes.

It seems like many countries made the same mistake whilst trying to free up hospital beds for Covid patients - but some mitigated that mistake with PPE, testing, tracing and quarantine whilst others (UK and USA at top of the list) did not.

[Wales-Bales]

No.

But if it makes you happy your Organ-lite post was a proposing a genuine choice between conspiracy and coincidence to explain care home deaths across Europe. Coincidence would be the right answer - even if you doubled down on your original purpose of promoting conspiracy with a post of a directive (not from Europe) to move elderly patients from hospital into care homes.

It seems like many countries made the same mistake whilst trying to free up hospital beds for Covid patients - but some mitigated that mistake with PPE, testing, tracing and quarantine whilst others (UK and USA at top of the list) did not.

I already knew people were going from hospitals into care homes without prior testing, or even displaying Covid-19 symptoms, so it's hardly a conspiracy. It's a fact that Keir Starmer brought up in PMQ today.

[jon1959]

I already knew people were going from hospitals into care homes without prior testing, or even displaying Covid-19 symptoms, so it's hardly a conspiracy. It's a fact that Keir Starmer brought up in PMQ today.

Did he get the directive OR did he not get the directive? Zzzzzz.....