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Thread: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

  1. #1

    Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836

    Care home residents account for nearly half of deaths linked to Covid-19 in Sweden. Some healthcare workers believe an institutional reluctance to admit patients to hospital is costing lives.

    Sweden did ban visits to care homes on 31 March. But as in many European countries, relatives, staff and union officials have shared concerns that protective clothing arrived too late, and that some staff may have gone to work at the start of the crisis despite showing symptoms of Covid-19.

    Now, increasing numbers of workers are also coming forward to criticise regional healthcare authorities for protocols which they say discourage care home workers from sending residents into hospital, and prevent care home and nursing staff from administering oxygen without a doctor's approval, either as part of acute or palliative (end-of-life) services.

  2. #2

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836

    Care home residents account for nearly half of deaths linked to Covid-19 in Sweden. Some healthcare workers believe an institutional reluctance to admit patients to hospital is costing lives.

    Sweden did ban visits to care homes on 31 March. But as in many European countries, relatives, staff and union officials have shared concerns that protective clothing arrived too late, and that some staff may have gone to work at the start of the crisis despite showing symptoms of Covid-19.

    Now, increasing numbers of workers are also coming forward to criticise regional healthcare authorities for protocols which they say discourage care home workers from sending residents into hospital, and prevent care home and nursing staff from administering oxygen without a doctor's approval, either as part of acute or palliative (end-of-life) services.
    Isn't Sweden one of those countries that have gone for herd immunity? I've even read (unconfirmed) reports of coronavirus parties out there where people are actively trying to get the virus.

  3. #3
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    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    It's a huge scandal what happened in many care homes around the world and somehow they all managed to follow the same course of action, which begs the question where did the directive come from, or was it coincidental that the same thing occurred in many different countries?

  4. #4

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    It's a huge scandal what happened in many care homes around the world and somehow they all managed to follow the same course of action, which begs the question where did the directive come from, or was it coincidental that the same thing occurred in many different countries?
    I've seen reports from Germany France Italy and Spain saying that they have all made mistakes as far as Care Homes are concerned.

    Same with PPE.

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    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    I've seen reports from Germany France Italy and Spain saying that they have all made mistakes as far as Care Homes are concerned.

    Same with PPE.
    New York was a massacre, the governor even passed a directive stating the care homes had to accept the Covid-19 infected patients who were cleared out from the hospital's.

  6. #6
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    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    It's a huge scandal what happened in many care homes around the world and somehow they all managed to follow the same course of action, which begs the question where did the directive come from, or was it coincidental that the same thing occurred in many different countries?
    You think there was a 'directive'?

    I won't believe it unless I hear it direct from Organ Morgan!

  7. #7

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    You think there was a 'directive'?

    I won't believe it unless I hear it direct from Organ Morgan!
    I think they just all got it wrong.

  8. #8

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    It's a huge scandal what happened in many care homes around the world and somehow they all managed to follow the same course of action, which begs the question where did the directive come from, or was it coincidental that the same thing occurred in many different countries?

    I think medical and viral scientists have a very clinical view on matters like herding and the elderly, that might shock us .

  9. #9

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    I've seen reports from Germany France Italy and Spain saying that they have all made mistakes as far as Care Homes are concerned.

    Same with PPE.
    Surely not I thought that was all the Tories fault ?

  10. #10
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    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    You think there was a 'directive'?

    I won't believe it unless I hear it direct from Organ Morgan!

  11. #11

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post

    It's an awful plan , presume it was too enable bed space for Corvid victims , I should imagine this was mirrored by many countries throughout world.

    As the life expectancy of care homes is sadly 20 months it will be intresting to view the fatalities next year if Corvid is gone by then which I doubt.

    This awful virus does prey on the weak and vulnerable ??

    Thanks China we owe you one .
    🤔

  12. #12

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Surely not I thought that was all the Tories fault ?
    I've noticed that, increasingly, Conservative party supporters like you (and no matter how much you try to deny that, it is how you are coming over on here) are having to resort to a "they're doing their best" defence when it comes to the virus. This follows on from weeks of answers from Ministers at briefings about how hard the Government are working on something when they're asked an awkward question - frankly, that's the very least we should expect from a Government in the situation we find ourselves in.

    The irony is that at least some of these Government supporters have always jumped on the Labour was to blame for the world wide crisis which occurred in 2008 bandwagon, so, if I was to use that sort of logic, then I should be saying that the Conservative party is responsible for COVID 19. I won't do that because it is plainly a ludicrous argument, just as ludicrous as the one about the UK Government being culpable for the 2008 crash.

    However, what happened in 2008 in this country may not have been quite so serious were it not for the haste and enthusiasm the Labour Government showed for the sort of financial deregulation which led to the dodgy dealings by banks that caused the problem - we were always going to take a hit, but it wouldn't have been such a big one were it not for the desire of Conservative and Labour Governments to "cut red tape" so much.

    It may well be that problems in care homes turn out to be something of a common theme throughout the world when there is the chance to conduct an unbiased and forensic analysis of the subject, but, just as in 2008, it is a question of degree and all but the most sycophantic and one eyed opinion we see so far on how the Government dealt with the virus is critical of it to varying degrees - for example;-

    https://www.civilserviceworld.com/ar...2%80%99-spread

    While accepting that, currently, claims such as we are "top of the league" when it comes to deaths in Europe are arguable because of the different ways of collecting and interpreting such data in the countries that make up the continent, I can say though that I know of no statistical or more general analysis which concludes that the UK has dealt with the virus well - as always, I admit I'm biased against the Conservatives, but that's of little consequence here because hardly anybody is coming up with a convincing defence of the Government, hence the prevalence of the "they're doing their best" line.

  13. #13
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    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    You were saying there was 'a directive' that led to the scandal of 'many care homes around the world' that 'all managed to follow the same course of action'. As if it was a global plan.... You have posted a directive issued in New York. That wasn't issued to care homes in St Albans, Malmo or Brussles! You are claiming or implying a conspiracy when there wasn't one.

    Elwood has probably got it right - they all got it wrong.

    The ones who got it less wrong were the ones who had an effective test and tracing system in place, where care homes had adequate PPE, and where patients who were discharged from hospital to care homes were quarantined for 14 days whether or not they had Covid 19 symptoms.

  14. #14

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Just 21% of UK Covid deaths come from care homes, a lower percentage than most comparable EU countries.

    No doubt that's the evil Tories fault, Bob et al will probably claim Johnson et al are stealthily going into EU care homes and deliberately poisoning their residents.

  15. #15

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by tell it like it is View Post
    Just 21% of UK Covid deaths come from care homes, a lower percentage than most comparable EU countries.

    No doubt that's the evil Tories fault, Bob et al will probably claim Johnson et al are stealthily going into EU care homes and deliberately poisoning their residents.
    Talk about clutching at straws! I purposely did not single out care homes because I don't think there is the data out there yet to draw firm conclusions about them, but, assuming the 21 per cent figure is correct, that must mean that something has gone badly wrong elsewhere given the total number of deaths in England.

  16. #16
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    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    You were saying there was 'a directive' that led to the scandal of 'many care homes around the world' that 'all managed to follow the same course of action'. As if it was a global plan.... You have posted a directive issued in New York. That wasn't issued to care homes in St Albans, Malmo or Brussles! You are claiming or implying a conspiracy when there wasn't one.

    Elwood has probably got it right - they all got it wrong.

    The ones who got it less wrong were the ones who had an effective test and tracing system in place, where care homes had adequate PPE, and where patients who were discharged from hospital to care homes were quarantined for 14 days whether or not they had Covid 19 symptoms.
    You better read what I said again.

  17. #17

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Mix of clearing out of hospitals, proximity of x amount of residents to each other and the private companies that run them failing to purchase and keep enough ppe for staff, particularly at the start.

    Mistakes everywhere.

  18. #18
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    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    You better read what I said again.
    Twice was enough.

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    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe


  20. #20

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    Mix of clearing out of hospitals, proximity of x amount of residents to each other and the private companies that run them failing to purchase and keep enough ppe for staff, particularly at the start.

    Mistakes everywhere.
    Seems a lot of EU nations, including Germany, have made more mistakes around care homes than UK government...

  21. #21
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    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Twice was enough.
    You missed the "or" then.

  22. #22

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Which country has the highest death rate in europe ?

    The uk

    Which party runs the country ?

    The conservatives

    Their governance of this episode has been shambolic from start to finish and the history books will show it

  23. #23

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by tell it like it is View Post
    Seems a lot of EU nations, including Germany, have made more mistakes around care homes than UK government...
    That's ok then we should just let them away with it

  24. #24

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by tell it like it is View Post
    Seems a lot of EU nations, including Germany, have made more mistakes around care homes than UK government...
    Have they? Or is the fact that Germany's percentage is higher due to the fact that they have had around 27,000 less deaths than in the UK? The fact that the UK govt. f**ked up more than just the care homes in their response has meant that we've had far more deaths outside of care homes than was thought of as acceptable at the time (wasn't 20,000 the number that they gave us?)

    If you think Germany have made more mistakes around care homes... why have have they had less than half of the amount of deaths that England (not evening including Scotland, Wales and NI) have had?

    You'd defend anything this Govt. do and in the words of...you.

    ...now f**k off.

  25. #25

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    That's ok then we should just let them away with it
    Some may have, but his logic is f**ked up if he thinks that having twice the amount of deaths in care homes in England than in Germany is somehow the UK govt. making less mistakes in care homes.

    He's desperate for Germany to be doing worse than the UK in response to the coronavirus.

    If only far more Germans had died of coronavirus outside of care homes, they would have a much lower percentage of deaths in care homes than England and tell it like it is would be saying something else to defend his party.

  26. #26

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Some may have, but his logic is f**ked up if he thinks that having twice the amount of deaths in care homes in England than in Germany is somehow the UK govt. making less mistakes in care homes.

    He's desperate for Germany to be doing worse than the UK in response to the coronavirus.

    If only far more Germans had died of coronavirus outside of care homes, they would have a much lower percentage of deaths in care homes than England and tell it like it is would be saying something else to defend his party.
    Yeah I don't get his attitude at all. Wanting more deaths to happen somewhere else just to provide a defence for someone he voted for. It's quite scary how biased and one eyed people can be.

  27. #27

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Yeah I don't get his attitude at all. Wanting more deaths to happen somewhere else just to provide a defence for someone he voted for. It's quite scary how biased and one eyed people can be.
    If Germany had 5 deaths in total but they were all in care homes... Tell it like it is would be on here saying that they had a 100% care home death rate and that UK govt. were doing a better job with care homes. He's so biased that I actually struggle to comprehend it sometimes.

  28. #28

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    I just don't understand why anyone would have that mindset, it seems a bit mad.

    I find it weird enough with football clubs but at least that's mostly a laugh, this is defending the government at all costs even if they're doing shit and it affects him.

  29. #29

    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    This all started with a thread title which included "across Europe". It links to an article on the BBC website which (apart from a vague reference to "concerns" and quotes from care home reps in the UK, Germany and Denmark) is about Sweden. I have to question the motives of the OP. And the there's tell it like it is...

  30. #30
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Seems care homes suffering across Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    You missed the "or" then.
    No.

    But if it makes you happy your Organ-lite post was a proposing a genuine choice between conspiracy and coincidence to explain care home deaths across Europe. Coincidence would be the right answer - even if you doubled down on your original purpose of promoting conspiracy with a post of a directive (not from Europe) to move elderly patients from hospital into care homes.

    It seems like many countries made the same mistake whilst trying to free up hospital beds for Covid patients - but some mitigated that mistake with PPE, testing, tracing and quarantine whilst others (UK and USA at top of the list) did not.

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