Justice for George Floyd petition

[William Treseder]

So if your not black and living in a “developed” country, you cant have an opinion on racist matters ?
Very backward thinking in my opinion.

[the other bob wilson]

So if your not black and living in a “developed” country, you cant have an opinion on racist matters ?
Very backward thinking in my opinion.

Show me where I said that. Following your logic through, I shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on basketball. As I admit, my opinion of that sport is blinkered and biased, but I'm allowed my opinion on it even though it's probably a load of bollox.

[Croesy Blue]

Yeah that delmbox argument really spoke to me. Very well put.

You can be anti racist and still say inappropriate things and have inappropriate opinions too, you just have to try and improve yourself. I’ve said racist things I regretted when I was younger thinking it was just a joke and am probably guilty of it at times now too. Life Is about continuously trying to improve yourself as a person, none of us are perfect.

[William Treseder]

So because of this you think it’s ok that black people are treated differently to white people by the state in the U.K. and the US then?

All these are arguments that you think black lives don’t matter. Is that the case?

Maybe when you see a group of people protesting for justice you need to ask yourself why your first reaction to this is “what about this and what about that”

Why do you always try to twist things?
Do you get some perverse thrill?
My initial post in this thread explains my opinion on the topic matter. No where in it does it say that i don't think black lives matter. Thats all in your head.

[Croesy Blue]

Why do you always try to twist things?
Do you get some perverse thrill?
My initial post in this thread explains my opinion on the topic matter. No where in it does it say that i don't think black lives matter. Thats all in your head.

So you think the protests have value then

[William Treseder]

So you think the protests have value then

Of course the protests have value. The rioting and looting definitely don't 👍

[Croesy Blue]

Of course the protests have value. The rioting and looting definitely don't 👍

So why do people keep bringing them up?

It’s a small minority of people. They aren’t part of the protests if they’re looting and rioting.

The people judging the whole movement of blm on a tiny proportion of people must hate the American police based on the actions of the minority of the police who shoot people.

[Croesy Blue]

So if your not black and living in a “developed” country, you cant have an opinion on racist matters ?
Very backward thinking in my opinion.

He hasn’t said that, he said maybe we can’t fully comprehend what it’s like being the subject of it, so it’s hard to have a fully formed opinion of what it’s like.

[trampie09]

Racism is not just a colour issue.

[William Treseder]

He hasn’t said that, he said maybe we can’t fully comprehend what it’s like being the subject of it, so it’s hard to have a fully formed opinion of what it’s like.

Thats just nonsense. Its quite easy to imagine what it would be like to be persecuted and treated like 2nd class citizens on a daily basis. Thats why the majority of people of all colours all over the world are sickened by it.

[William Treseder]

Show me where I said that. Following your logic through, I shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on basketball. As I admit, my opinion of that sport is blinkered and biased, but I'm allowed my opinion on it even though it's probably a load of bollox.

This whole thread is going round in circles. Its not my logic I'm talking about. Its your logic .
You wrote a long winded post about it about 20 mins ago 😁

[the other bob wilson]

This whole thread is going round in circles. Its not my logic I'm talking about. Its your logic .
You wrote a long winded post about it about 20 mins ago ��

No, you said that I thought people like you cannot have an opinion on "racist matters". I didn't say that at all, you are free to think what you like, but the difference between us would appear to be that I am able to recognise and accept when my opinions don't stand up to close scrutiny.

You talk about "my logic", but you have come to a conclusion on what I said that does not apply.

[Croesy Blue]

Thats just nonsense. Its quite easy to imagine what it would be like to be persecuted and treated like 2nd class citizens on a daily basis. Thats why the majority of people of all colours all over the world are sickened by it.

We appreciate that it’s bad but we underestimate how difficult it is. We don’t know what it’s like to be completely judged just on how we look and having to be on our guard at all times of day.

Black people, in the US at least, have to be taught growing up how to behave with the police because they’re more likely to be approached and more likely to be injured than a white person. Can you actually imagine what that’s like to be so afraid of that every time you leave the house? Because I can’t.

We don’t notice how lucky we are to be white because we are so used to it. That’s what makes it so hard for us to understand exactly how bad it is for non white people.

[William Treseder]

So why do people keep bringing them up?

It’s a small minority of people. They aren’t part of the protests if they’re looting and rioting.

The people judging the whole movement of blm on a tiny proportion of people must hate the American police based on the actions of the minority of the police who shoot people.

It doesn’t matter if its a small minority. Its distracting from the protest. We all know what damage a small minority can do. It wasn't that long ago, that all City fans were tarred with the same brush because of the soul crew.

[Croesy Blue]

It doesn’t matter if its a small minority. Its distracting from the protest. We all know what damage a small minority can do. It wasn't that long ago, that all City fans were tarred with the same brush because of the soul crew.

But the people doing the looting aren’t part of the protests.

[William Treseder]

But the people doing the looting aren’t part of the protests.

So why was George Floyds brother so an angry and upset by it. Obviously, because its distracting from the peaceful protests. Surely you can see that?

[Croesy Blue]

So why was George Floyds brother so an angry and upset by it. Obviously, because its distracting from the peaceful protests. Surely you can see that?

Yeah I can but you're doing the job of detracting from it by bringing it up.

They aren't part of the protest and they shouldn't detract from it but people will use it as an excuse to detract from it.

[William Treseder]

We appreciate that it’s bad but we underestimate how difficult it is. We don’t know what it’s like to be completely judged just on how we look and having to be on our guard at all times of day.

Black people, in the US at least, have to be taught growing up how to behave with the police because they’re more likely to be approached and more likely to be injured than a white person. Can you actually imagine what that’s like to be so afraid of that every time you leave the house? Because I can’t.

We don’t notice how lucky we are to be white because we are so used to it. That’s what makes it so hard for us to understand exactly how bad it is for non white people.

I disagree with you once again. I for one, don't under estimate how difficult it is, and millions of others all over the world don't either.
It can be a sick and cruel world we live in. Ask gay people, transexual people, fat people , ugly people,
Disabled people etc, what its like to be persecuted and taunted. Its getting better, but we still have a million miles to go on eradicating it all together, and sadly i don't think we ever will.

[William Treseder]

No, you said that I thought people like you cannot have an opinion on "racist matters". I didn't say that at all, you are free to think what you like, but the difference between us would appear to be that I am able to recognise and accept when my opinions don't stand up to close scrutiny.

You talk about "my logic", but you have come to a conclusion on what I said that does not apply.

Still going round in circles here. My opinion on the way black Americans are treated, would stand up to the closest and tightest scrutiny.

[the other bob wilson]

Still going round in circles here. My opinion on the way black Americans are treated, would stand up to the closest and tightest scrutiny.

Yeah, but I'm not talking about in your head.

[Croesy Blue]

So you think you know exactly how it is to live your life as a minority every day and how that affects every part of your life?

[William Treseder]

Yeah I can but you're doing the job of detracting from it by bringing it up.

They aren't part of the protest and they shouldn't detract from it but people will use it as an excuse to detract from it.

So shall we just pretend its not happening?
Why did George Floyds brother even mention it then? He mentioned it, because it sickened him that a minority of people were taking advantage of his brothers murder to run wild. You cant pick and choose. These rioters and looters have got to be shamed and condemned, just as much as the racist cops involved in this whole sorry affair.

[J R Hartley]

So shall we just pretend its not happening?
Why did George Floyds brother even mention it then? He mentioned it, because it sickened him that a minority of people were taking advantage of his brothers murder to run wild. You cant pick and choose. These rioters and looters have got to be shamed and condemned, just as much as the racist cops involved in this whole sorry affair.

Lewis Hamilton has also mentioned it. He has called out Formula 1 and other celebrities for their silence. He says he stands together with the protesters, but he doesnt stand with the violence and the looting. Maybe hes a detractor too?

Perhaps he should have got Rudys permission first but hey-ho. It is what it is.

[William Treseder]

So you think you know exactly how it is to live your life as a minority every day and how that affects every part of your life?

Yes i do. Thats why I'm sickened to the core about institutionalised racism and all racism of any kind.

[trampie09]

I've seen the recently released Netflix series on Michael Jordan described as the best sports documentary ever - I've not watched it and I doubt if I ever will. With apologies to anyone who might think this is a clumsy and inappropriate analogy given that i would have thought the large majority of professional basketball players in the USA are Afro Caribbean, I can't stand basketball, it's too easy to score and games are decided by how often you don't score the expected points when you attack.

The thing is though, my opinion of basketball is blinkered and biased, I come up with a bunch of preconceived notions about it which, almost certainly, makes it impossible for me to be objective about it.

I wrote a weekly column for the Echo on City for about eighteen months a few years back, but, by far and away, the most comment any of the pieces I wrote during that time attracted was one I did where I told a story against myself at the time of the Malky Mackay racism controversy. I won't go into too much detail now, but, back in the early eighties, I made a racist comment (I called them a P*k*) about a member of the public I'd just had a fairly troublesome phone conversation with in work. I thought the Sri Lankan gentleman who worked close by I was quite friendly with was at lunch at the time, but it turned out he heard me. We barely spoke again after that, but word got back to me that he was very disappointed with me because "he thought I was better than that".

That comment was absolutely perfect if it was meant to upset me and make me think. It had a profound effect on me and drove a coach and horses through my opinion of myself that I was a "right on" non racist. However, I would say in partial mitigation that I was a product of my time and anyone who is not old enough to have, first, lived through and, second, understood what was being said in so much of the print you read and the television and radio you watched and heard in that decade, cannot really comprehend the way my generation was being influenced to think of people with a skin colour that wasn't white in derogatory terms.

Nevertheless, there is so much thinking on a par with my attitude towards basketball in this thread - people pontificating and agreeing sagely on a subject they know very little about (i.e. what it is like to be black in countries in the "developed" world). I freely admit that I don't know what it's like because I cannot do, but, based on this thread, there are plenty of white, middle aged/old men who think they know exactly what it's like.

The thing is, Delmbox absolutely nailed this it with this argument in another thread when he said;-

"The question I think you need to ask yourself is when you see a group of people protesting because they're clearly angry and upset about something, why your reaction is to think of "what about, what about" reasons why they shouldn't, rather than thinking about why they are."

End of argument as far as I'm concerned.

Don't beat yourself up butt, I'm reminded of the Big Ron thing, he did great things for the advancement of certain groups but just happened to make a comment, most people are to a greater or lesser extent products of their environment, strange the Sri Lankan, Pakistan thing mind you, did the Sri Lankan have links to Pakistan then ?, not that that matters.
The last dance thing was interesting, there is a cross over in many sports, Jordan at one point went on to play rounders or whatever the Yanks call it, the characters were interesting, the scoring in baseball is opposite to football, in football it's hard to score (some games there are no goals), in football the crowd will often chant 'attack, attack, attack attack attack' in Basketball the crowd will often chant 'DEFENCE'.