Justice for George Floyd petition

[Croesy Blue]

Will there be a call next for places like Auschwitz to be demolished ? These places and statues should always remain, as a constant reminder to each generation of what kind of evil mankind can portray.
Its called the history of the world so far, and trying to erase it is like trying to deny it ever happened.

Surely you can see the difference between a statue which is a glorification and a historical location though?

It’s more akin to having a statue of a Nazi in Germany.

[jon1959]

Cultural marxism is the rewriting of history.

'Cultural marxism' is an invention of the cultural fascists!

A version of history was written by the victors - and statues and street names were erected by the victors. It is history through a particular lens. There are other views of history and many untold stories. I don't want to see all imperialist or slave-owning monuments or references removed, but some of them should go if the local people want that. The ones that remain should be put into a context so they can be understood by current generations and the public should debate, argue and understand far better than they do now what these relics represent.

But of course the pyramids are OK!

[life on mars]

As Bristol has been a Labour controlled council since 2016 and with an elected black mayor why have they not dealt with the statue and names of Colston before now , it seems well meaning peaceful activists on the radio today have been attempting to have this statue removed for years ??

[xsnaggle]

'Cultural marxism' is an invention of the cultural fascists!

A version of history was written by the victors - and statues and street names were erected by the victors. It is history through a particular lens. There are other views of history and many untold stories. I don't want to see all imperialist or slave-owning monuments or references removed, but some of them should go if the local people want that. The ones that remain should be put into a context so they can be understood by current generations and the public should debate, argue and understand far better than they do now what these relics represent.

But of course the pyramids are OK!

Tell a jew that!

[blue matt]

You only have to look at vegetarian Bluematt defending choloronated chicken just because he voted for brexit.

for someone who loves to be factual, you really do have a bad habit for posting Lies and repeating them till they become a fact in your own mind

can you show me where i defended chlorinated chicken

just to save you from searching for the post, i have them here

Here i am pointing out that the consumer will have the right to choose not to buy them, i can only see british farmers labelling UK chickens as such, so if you dont want to eat USA chickens, dont

I guess people could choose not to eat that chicken

we will see UK bred chickens labelled as such and people will have a choice to buy US or UK chicken, alot like we do with free range eggs

you have said i am arguing chlorinated chickens are not bad, once again, i call you out on this, where have i said that, once again, i pointed out that you have a choice to buy them or not

This shows how biased people are, Matt is a vegetarian because he worries about animal welfare.

But because he voted brexit he’s now arguing that this isn’t bad.

Why can’t people realise things aren’t black and white and you can still criticise things even if you voted for them.

I have never said this isnt bad, i have said people will have a choice, UK chickens will be labelled as such and people will choose what they want to eat, just like they do eggs

Personally i dont want to see any animals killed for food, but thats another argument

I hope this helps, at no point have i " defended " or " argued that chlorinated chicken isn’t bad " I simply pointed out that in the UK we will have a choice to eat it or not, the argument that we will not label UK BRED CHICKEN is a joke, we see " Welsh Lamb " and Scotch Beef **** " so why not chickens

**** Scotch Beef PGI is whole chain assured beef from Scotland. In a nutshell, Scotch Beef PGI is from specific animals that are sourced from selected Scottish farms, adopting best practice which includes animal welfare and natural production methods. ... Scotch Beef has long held this coveted PGI status.

[life on mars]

I'm from most of your generations. Cardiff was/is multi cultural because of the docks i guess (please correct me)
In our school we had a few black guys, one from cyncoed and one from pennsylvania.
The guy from Penn was renamed Onga,Don't tell me that we are not a bunch of racists

Yes i'm sure that happened back then as did signs in windows saying no blacks or Jews ,Irish , Gypsy Travelers , I do think we have moved on though ,hatred will never be eradicated , you smell that on this board at football matches and in pubs everywhere.

It is clear that BAME folk deserve to be given a level platform ,its interesting the evil Tories have 6 high ranking BAME in their cabinet, whcih should be more and they have 22 in total as MP against Labours increased and admiral 41 MP's .

Wouldn't it be nice to see Rishi Sunak , I was hoping that Labour would be democratic and brave enough to put in a BAME female leader in Lisa Nandy

[xsnaggle]

Yes i'm sure that happened back then as did signs in windows saying no blacks or Jews ,Irish , Gypsy Travelers , I do think we have moved on though ,hatred will never be eradicated , you smell that on this board at football matches and in pubs everywhere.

It is clear that BAME folk deserve to be given a level platform ,its interesting the evil Tories have 6 high ranking BAME in their cabinet, whcih should be more and they have 22 in total as MP against Labours increased and admiral 41 MP's .

Wouldn't it be nice to see Rishi Sunak , I was hoping that Labour would be democratic and brave enough to put in a BAME female leader in Lisa Nandy

I have never seen a sign in any window like that in Cardiff, and I went to most areas as a youth and later. There was always a huge Irish community in Cardiff and i'm fairly sure any sign banning them would have seen the place wrecked in days in the 50's or before. Most of the boys I knew from the bay were black and I never experienced any of them being barred from any place I went.
there were places where someone could be made to feel 'uncomfortable' or alien but that was more to do with not being from the right 'post code' more than any religious or national reason, as can be seen in the thread about pubs.

[William Treseder]

Surely you can see the difference between a statue which is a glorification and a historical location though?

It’s more akin to having a statue of a Nazi in Germany.

Colstons statue may have been erected in the 1st place to commentate him, but as time has gone on, it is there for all people( locals, visitors of all colours and creed) to realise who he was, and what a vile trade he worked in.
A man with despicable ideals and traits, who is now a part of our history that will hopefully never come back.
Whether or not locals like it, it was part of Bristol history, and it should have remained as a constant reminder of a dark episode. Nobody was forced to salute him every time they passed it.
Its akin to executing a murderer, instead of keeping him alive to rot in his cell.
Thats just my opinion, and i’m entitled to it 👍

[lisvaneblue]

Good thread with lots of debate, but how about someone remembering Martin Gugino in all this

[William Treseder]

Surely you can see the difference between a statue which is a glorification and a historical location though?

It’s more akin to having a statue of a Nazi in Germany.

Also meant to say, that you describe Auschwitz as a historical location, like its the rebuild of the Vulcan in St Fagans castle!

[William Treseder]

Good thread with lots of debate, but how about someone remembering Martin Gugino in all this

Another sickening incident to witness.
The guy was posing no threat, and the brutality shown was once again unacceptable.

[Heisenberg]

It is clear that BAME fits interesting the evil Tories have 6 high ranking BAME in their cabinet, whcih should be more and they have 22 in total as MP against Labours increased and admiral 41 MP's

Who are the 6? Genuine question as that appears to be 100% more BAME members of cabinet than I calculated.

[cyril evans awaydays]

for someone who loves to be factual, you really do have a bad habit for posting Lies and repeating them till they become a fact in your own mind

can you show me where i defended chlorinated chicken

just to save you from searching for the post, i have them here

Here i am pointing out that the consumer will have the right to choose not to buy them, i can only see british farmers labelling UK chickens as such, so if you dont want to eat USA chickens, dont



you have said i am arguing chlorinated chickens are not bad, once again, i call you out on this, where have i said that, once again, i pointed out that you have a choice to buy them or not





I hope this helps, at no point have i " defended " or " argued that chlorinated chicken isn’t bad " I simply pointed out that in the UK we will have a choice to eat it or not, the argument that we will not label UK BRED CHICKEN is a joke, we see " Welsh Lamb " and Scotch Beef **** " so why not chickens

**** Scotch Beef PGI is whole chain assured beef from Scotland. In a nutshell, Scotch Beef PGI is from specific animals that are sourced from selected Scottish farms, adopting best practice which includes animal welfare and natural production methods. ... Scotch Beef has long held this coveted PGI status.

Isn't PGI an EU protection?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Colstons statue may have been erected in the 1st place to commentate him, but as time has gone on, it is there for all people( locals, visitors of all colours and creed) to realise who he was, and what a vile trade he worked in.
A man with despicable ideals and traits, who is now a part of our history that will hopefully never come back.
Whether or not locals like it, it was part of Bristol history, and it should have remained as a constant reminder of a dark episode. Nobody was forced to salute him every time they passed it.
Its akin to executing a murderer, instead of keeping him alive to rot in his cell.
Thats just my opinion, and i’m entitled to it 👍

The writing on colstons statue said what a fine man he was, as far as I am aware it didnt have an additional bit saying he was a slave trader , had despicable traits and ideals and what shame he brought on bristol and what a vile trade he worked in

If it did , I stand corrected

If it didnt then lots of people , who just like you are entitled to their opinion, would walk past that statue and feel very uncomfortable

You say that as time has gone the statue has been there to remind people of what a bad person he was

How do you know it's been left there for that reason , as a reminder to people of how bad he was?

That's what you think or what you want to believe but it's not a fact . The city council have not put , as far as I am aware a sign up saying this is the bloke that shamed bristol

[William Treseder]

The writing on colstons statue said what a fine man he was, as far as I am aware it didnt have an additional bit saying he was a slave trader , had despicable traits and ideals and what shame he brought on bristol and what a vile trade he worked in

If it did , I stand corrected

If it didnt then lots of people , who just like you are entitled to their opinion, would walk past that statue and feel very uncomfortable

You say that as time has gone the statue has been there to remind people of what a bad person he was

How do you know it's been left there for that reason , as a reminder to people of how bad he was?

That's what you think or what you want to believe but it's not a fact . The city council have not put , as far as I am aware a sign up saying this is the bloke that shamed bristol

You’ve littered this whole thread with your opinions which aren't fact. In deed you seemed to have lived in every city in the UK, and claim to know everything about them.
Im sure if a Cowbridge country bumpkin like you knows the history of Colston, then I'm sure the Bristolians would know as well.
If they didn't, why did they pull it down.?

[blue matt]

Isn't PGI an EU protection?

yes it is, but that wasnt the point, it will be easy enough to advertise " UK CHICKENS " just like it is " welsh lamb " or " scotch beef "

we can have a UK run PGI, doesnt need to be run by the EU

so a UK run PGI would just mean you can be confident that the chicken was born, reared and processed in the UK

[blue matt]

The writing on colstons statue said what a fine man he was, as far as I am aware it didnt have an additional bit saying he was a slave trader , had despicable traits and ideals and what shame he brought on bristol and what a vile trade he worked in

I moved down this way 20 odd years ago and certain sections of society have been campaigning for the statue to be removed as long as i can remember , Bristol council agreed a few years back to include on the plaque details that Colston was a slave trader, it then went quiet about it

[Croesy Blue]

Also meant to say, that you describe Auschwitz as a historical location, like its the rebuild of the Vulcan in St Fagans castle!

site of historical significance is maybe better.

I don’t have a dog in the fight either way tbh. I can see why ripping down auschwitz would have made sense before it was reclaimed as a museum for education, the same as Jon was saying about those statues.

I can also see why people would want to pull down the statue of someone famous for the slave trade.

[xsnaggle]

I moved down this way 20 odd years ago and certain sections of society have been campaigning for the statue to be removed as long as i can remember , Bristol council agreed a few years back to include on the plaque details that Colston was a slave trader, it then went quiet about it

They interviewed the Mayor of Bristol on the news today. He basically said he had been busy and he had more important things to deal with like fighting for racial and social justice today. He also said that if the statue was to be removed it should have been properly removed and not as a result of mob criminal damage.It's an interesting interview from more than one aspect.

[cyril evans awaydays]

yes it is, but that wasnt the point, it will be easy enough to advertise " UK CHICKENS " just like it is " welsh lamb " or " scotch beef "

we can have a UK run PGI, doesnt need to be run by the EU

so a UK run PGI would just mean you can be confident that the chicken was born, reared and processed in the UK

Think we are diverting this thread but a British run PGI or PDO (the other world-wide recognised EU food /type copyright) will only be relevant in the territory it is applied, ie the UK. So every time we set such a protectionist rule we limit the benefits of trade with the rest of the non-EU world we see as the future.

[Heisenberg]

yes it is, but that wasnt the point, it will be easy enough to advertise " UK CHICKENS " just like it is " welsh lamb " or " scotch beef "

we can have a UK run PGI, doesnt need to be run by the EU

so a UK run PGI would just mean you can be confident that the chicken was born, reared and processed in the UK

So you're not defending the practice of chlorinating chicken, just hypothetically defending that consumers will know that they're getting it and hypothetically suggesting that the UK will adopt the same principles of food standards that we have as part of the EU?

As the Govt. categorically said that chlorinated chicken was off the menu in any trade deals (as well as the other lies that have been spun about Brexit)... hypothetically, it's possible that any trade agreement with the US would state that it won't be labelled as such, if it will replace the the cheapest chicken prices we have that low-income families can afford and therefore have no choice what they purchase and hypothetically, the UK could decrease its standards of chicken farming because people end up not caring any more and we end up having a system like the States where farms are in competition with each other to produce the most meat and all animal rights go out the window then.

It's all hypothetical, innit.

[Heisenberg]

They interviewed the Mayor of Bristol on the news today. He basically said he had been busy and he had more important things to deal with like fighting for racial and social justice today. He also said that if the statue was to be removed it should have been properly removed and not as a result of mob criminal damage.It's an interesting interview from more than one aspect.

'The slave trader statue that was toppled in Bristol was an "affront", the city's mayor has said - but it will still "highly likely" end up in a museum.

Speaking on Kay Burley@Breakfast, Marvin Rees said that "as an elected politician I cannot condone criminal damage".

But he added: "I can't pretend, as the son of a Jamaican migrant myself, that the presence of that statue to a slave trader in the middle of the city was anything other than a personal affront to me and people like me."

Mr Rees continued: "We will get the statue back and it will highly likely end up in one of our museums.

"What's happened to this statue is part of this city's history and it's part of that statue's story." '

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

You’ve littered this whole thread with your opinions which aren't fact. In deed you seemed to have lived in every city in the UK, and claim to know everything about them.
Im sure if a Cowbridge country bumpkin like you knows the history of Colston, then I'm sure the Bristolians would know as well.
If they didn't, why did they pull it down.?

Your response suggests to me you are aware you have made a number of assumptions about this statue that have claimed to be fact but which clearly are not , you have spoken claiming that the statue should be preserved as it is there to remind people what a bad thing slavery was . I dont think think there is any evidence of that at all.

I have lived in neath , manchester , oxford , bradford and cardiff , I am certainly not a country pumpkin but if you want to believe that and use it as an insult then it doesnt bother me

[J R Hartley]

You’ve littered this whole thread with your opinions which aren't fact. In deed you seemed to have lived in every city in the UK, and claim to know everything about them.
Im sure if a Cowbridge country bumpkin like you knows the history of Colston, then I'm sure the Bristolians would know as well.
If they didn't, why did they pull it down.?

He’s also an expert on gang culture in every city in the UK.

The Welsh Ross Kemp.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

They interviewed the Mayor of Bristol on the news today. He basically said he had been busy and he had more important things to deal with like fighting for racial and social justice today. He also said that if the statue was to be removed it should have been properly removed and not as a result of mob criminal damage.It's an interesting interview from more than one aspect.

He said as an elected official he couldn't condone violence but as a son of a west indian immigrant he was deeply offended by it .

Which is slightly different