UK Covid-19 death figures

[lisvaneblue]

Westminster were responsible for the ridiculous delays in announcing the lockdown, which is one the biggest causes in the spread of Covid-19 and leading to so many avoidable deaths.

They hold all of the blame on that account, I'm sure you'll agr... Nope, what am I thinking. You wouldn't dare hold them responsible for that.

Wales could have, should have, made their own decisions on lockdown. Small European countries went ahead. It doesn't sit easy but we have our own Public Health system, our own Medical officers and Scientific advisors, and our own parliament. if overall they decided to wait for England to declare lockdown or go with a UK position before acting then that's the Senedd's decision and their responsibility.
Nothing at all to do with England, Scotland or Northern Ireland

[CCFCC3PO]

Wales could have, should have, made their own decisions on lockdown. Small European countries went ahead. It doesn't sit easy but we have our own Public Health system, our own Medical officers and Scientific advisors, and our own parliament. if overall they decided to wait for England to declare lockdown or go with a UK position before acting then that's the Senedd's decision and their responsibility.
Nothing at all to do with England, Scotland or Northern Ireland

Wales locking down without England locking down would have been incredibly ineffective in my opinion. Firstly, we would have the cases of people crossing the border for work purposes. People would still be arriving in large numbers from England to Welsh beauty spots. Also, there would have been no furlough scheme - the result being that retailers would be able to continue trading in their English branches, but not the Welsh. That could, arguably, have led to shops being closed, and people being made redundant in large numbers.

[lisvaneblue]

Wales locking down without England locking down would have been incredibly ineffective in my opinion. Firstly, we would have the cases of people crossing the border for work purposes. People would still be arriving in large numbers from England to Welsh beauty spots. Also, there would have been no furlough scheme - the result being that retailers would be able to continue trading in their English branches, but not the Welsh. That could, arguably, have led to shops being closed, and people being made redundant in large numbers.

But, to a degree, what you say would have been ineffective is happening now. We are much more restricted in Wales by our lockdown than England is. Their shops are opening ours less so. Wales has more people furloughed per capita.

[CCFCC3PO]

But, to a degree, what you say would have been ineffective is happening now. We are much more restricted in Wales by our lockdown than England is. Their shops are opening ours less so. Wales has more people furloughed per capita.

There is no way that furlough payments would have been handed out if Wales went it alone. The early success of the lockdown was party down to people being paid to stay at home. I also think Wales' guidelines are less effective because of Johnson's messages.

[insider]

Wales could have, should have, made their own decisions on lockdown. Small European countries went ahead. It doesn't sit easy but we have our own Public Health system, our own Medical officers and Scientific advisors, and our own parliament. if overall they decided to wait for England to declare lockdown or go with a UK position before acting then that's the Senedd's decision and their responsibility.
Nothing at all to do with England, Scotland or Northern Ireland

Wales couldn't do anything on there own until the covid act was passed through Parliament.
Which was delayed because Johnson had his thumb stuck up his arse for ages.

[lisvaneblue]

Wales couldn't do anything on there own until the covid act was passed through Parliament.
Which was delayed because Johnson had his thumb stuck up his arse for ages.

The act covered lots of day to day things, like retired doctors re-registering etc, but the Senedd was free to do whatever in strategic healthcare issues, including its own lockdown. Whether it would have been practical, I don’t know. Buts let’s stop blaming Westminster for the Senedd decisions, or lack of.

[insider]

The act covered lots of day to day things, like retired doctors re-registering etc, but the Senedd was free to do whatever in strategic healthcare issues, including its own lockdown. Whether it would have been practical, I don’t know. Buts let’s stop blaming Westminster for the Senedd decisions, or lack of.

So how could people be kept off the street and in Lockdown without the act then?

[lisvaneblue]

So how could people be kept off the street and in Lockdown without the act then?

The Public Health Act 1984

[ToTaL ITK]

The Public Health Act 1984

it would seem that a lockdown was maybe!!!! not required but common sense wasn't being applied in the early stages.

[Heisenberg]

Wales could have, should have, made their own decisions on lockdown. Small European countries went ahead. It doesn't sit easy but we have our own Public Health system, our own Medical officers and Scientific advisors, and our own parliament. if overall they decided to wait for England to declare lockdown or go with a UK position before acting then that's the Senedd's decision and their responsibility.
Nothing at all to do with England, Scotland or Northern Ireland

How were Wales supposed to enter lockdown before the UK Govt. introduced the job retention scheme and also the means for businesses and the self-employed to apply for help so that they could be financially secure during said lockdown? Seriously lisvaneblue, you seem to have an answer for everything - so I'm sure you've got something for us regarding this question.

[lisvaneblue]

How were Wales supposed to enter lockdown before the UK Govt. introduced the job retention scheme and also the means for businesses and the self-employed to apply for help so that they could be financially secure during said lockdown? Seriously lisvaneblue, you seem to have an answer for everything - so I'm sure you've got something for us regarding this question.

I don't know how they were supposed to. The money side of it, which is so very important, is from UK Government.
I'm sure the Senedd would have discussed the options and come up with what they thought best for Wales

All I've been saying all along is that healthcare is devolved and bugger all to do with the other three nations. But some on this board seem hell bent on pulling Boris et al into it as if it's his fault, because they can't see any further than he's a Tory.

All healthcare for Wales decisions are the responsibility of the Senedd, end of. Personally I don't think they have done a good job so far, but the game isn't over yet.

[Heisenberg]

I don't know how they were supposed to. The money side of it, which is so very important, is from UK Government.
I'm sure the Senedd would have discussed the options and come up with what they thought best for Wales

All I've been saying all along is that healthcare is devolved and bugger all to do with the other three nations. But some on this board seem hell bent on pulling Boris et al into it as if it's his fault, because they can't see any further than he's a Tory.

All healthcare for Wales decisions are the responsibility of the Senedd, end of. Personally I don't think they have done a good job so far, but the game isn't over yet.

Exactly.

[the other bob wilson]

I don't know how they were supposed to. The money side of it, which is so very important, is from UK Government.
I'm sure the Senedd would have discussed the options and come up with what they thought best for Wales

All I've been saying all along is that healthcare is devolved and bugger all to do with the other three nations. But some on this board seem hell bent on pulling Boris et al into it as if it's his fault, because they can't see any further than he's a Tory.

All healthcare for Wales decisions are the responsibility of the Senedd, end of. Personally I don't think they have done a good job so far, but the game isn't over yet.

And there it is, the point where your argument about how blame is apportioned between Welsh and UK Governments completely falls down. In one of your replies, you talked of small European nations who had gone it alone in taking on the virus, but, assuming your intention was to show the Welsh Government in a bad light in comparison to them, you're indulging in the same sort of comparing apples with oranges argument that UK Government apologists apply to anyone who makes direct comparisons between UK statistics and those of other European countries.

The devolution we have is not on a par with those countries you seek to compare us to - Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are in a kind of halfway house, they have some freedom to do what they wish, but not complete freedom. As I said in a post I did about this time yesterday in this thread, it would be a different matter if Wales had full devolution, but it doesn't and so allowances have to be made for that.

[lisvaneblue]

And there it is, the point where your argument about how blame is apportioned between Welsh and UK Governments completely falls down. In one of your replies, you talked of small European nations who had gone it alone in taking on the virus, but, assuming your intention was to show the Welsh Government in a bad light in comparison to them, you're indulging in the same sort of comparing apples with oranges argument that UK Government apologists apply to anyone who makes direct comparisons between UK statistics and those of other European countries.

The devolution we have is not on a par with those countries you seek to compare us to - Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are in a kind of halfway house, they have some freedom to do what they wish, but not complete freedom. As I said in a post I did about this time yesterday in this thread, it would be a different matter if Wales had full devolution, but it doesn't and so allowances have to be made for that.

You know my views...ie healthcare is devolved, its not a halfway house, its devolved just as Education is. Please tell me what authority Westminster has in law to make decisions about the healthcare of the people in Wales.

And when it comes to small Europen countries that are members of the EU, many would say that they are not truly independent because of the EU regulations that they have to follow. But that's a different argument

[the other bob wilson]

You know my views...ie healthcare is devolved, its not a halfway house, its devolved just as Education is. Please tell me what authority Westminster has in law to make decisions about the healthcare of the people in Wales.

And when it comes to small Europen countries that are members of the EU, many would say that they are not truly independent because of the EU regulations that they have to follow. But that's a different argument

Hang on, you're getting into real hair splitting territory now. This should be a straightforward matter, is Wales "devolved" in the same manner as, say, Luxembourg, Malta and Iceland are? I think I'm right in saying they all have full autonomy in a way that we don't.

[lisvaneblue]

Hang on, you're getting into real hair splitting territory now. This should be a straightforward matter, is Wales "devolved" in the same manner as, say, Luxembourg, Malta and Iceland are? I think I'm right in saying they all have full autonomy in a way that we don't.

Certain things are devolved. Two key ones are healthcare and education.We have full autonomy and responsibility for these