UK Covid-19 death figures

[lisvaneblue]

For those who still want to see things in party political terms, I'll say that the figures in Wales are dreadful (six out of the top ten worst districts for rate of infection according to this

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...cases-near-you

and getting worse it would appear when compared to other areas of the country). Therefore, like many left leaning contributors on here, I have no problem with being critical of Welsh Labour, because, while there is evidence in those figures that the danger is easing in the other countries in the UK, it looks like Wales is stuck and so it would be stupid to slavishly defend the Welsh Government.

However, I do have some sympathy with Drakeford and co because we are not truly independent. If we were, it would be a different matter, but, in some respects, the Welsh Government is having to tackle the virus with one hand tied behind its back because it is still beholding to the UK Government. That's why, if we are playing the blame game, I still hold the UK Government more responsible for the high figures in this country.



Also, as pointed out earlier in this thread, the Ferguson modelling was a projection of what would have happened if there had been no intervention from Government (in essence, if we had relied on herd immunity and just allowed the virus to have run its course). Its relevance stemmed from the fact it seems to be the one single thing that persuaded the UK Government to ignore advice advocating a herd immunity approach, but, once that decision was taken, it became irrelevant straight away because it referred to a set of circumstances that no longer applied.

I agree the figures in Wales are terrible, but don't agree that we can blame the UK Government in part. Health is devolved and Wales seemed determined to do its own thing, as did Scotland and N Ireland. From the start we lagged behind in testing and are still way off the 5,000 a day promised in the early days.
Drakeford rightly announced that industrial South Wales was at particular risk, but then did nothing about it. Now he has the cheek to say Tracking and Tracing is up and running but not just yet because the IT is not quite right.

Our 5 colour zone plan on easing seems sensible but we are all over the place with it so it no longer makes any sense at all.

The latest easing guidance is confusing especially the 5 mile rule. There are clear hot spots in Wales..RCT, NE Wales, Cardiff...so we can meet up more, but because of the travel restrictions if we live in a hot spot we can only meet in the hot spot. A recipe for escalation.

On TV news last night I saw the frustration of car showroom owners who can't understand why they remain shut, fearing they will lose business to England. Car showrooms are not like supermarkets crowded with shoppers, and the owners say it's not difficult to ensure customers are kept safe.

I think the people of Wales have been generally great at compliance with the guidance. All along we have been hindered by a Senedd that is out of its depth, and a public health system that has been slow off the mark and not fit for purpose.

[The Lone Gunman]

I agree the figures in Wales are terrible, but don't agree that we can blame the UK Government in part.

Really? I'm amazed.....

The assertion that the UK government doesn't share the blame for the Covid-19 situation in Wales is so mind-numbingly stupid it doesn't warrant a proper response. It's almost on a par with the rubbish you wrote about your proposed shopping trip to Brecon, but not quite.

[lisvaneblue]

Really? I'm amazed.....

The assertion that the UK government doesn't share the blame for the Covid-19 situation in Wales is so mind-numbingly stupid it doesn't warrant a proper response. It's almost on a par with the rubbish you wrote about your proposed shopping trip to Brecon, but not quite.

If something is devolved it means...and Im sure you know this... that the responsibility has been passed on...ie to the Senedd

If the Senedd chooses to be led by England then it does not take away the fact that the Senedd holds total responsibility for our healthcare. Nothing to do with England or the rest of the UK

So I think it may not be me that is mind numbingly stupid. Don't let our Welsh politicians fob you off by thinking that Westminster is somehow to share the blame for the mess it has got us in.

[The Lone Gunman]

I think it may not be me that is mind numbingly stupid. Don't let our Welsh politicians fob you off by thinking that Westminster is somehow to share the blame for the mess it has got us in.

Of course they share responsibility for this mess. If you genuinely believe otherwise, you're an idiot. It's no more complicated than that.

[lisvaneblue]

Of course they share responsibility for this mess. If you genuinely believe otherwise, you're an idiot. It's no more complicated than that.

Your OP was about UK deaths, so the UK Gov must share responsibility for that. My comments related to Wales and the responsibility for healthcare rests solely with the Senedd. Its pretty straightforward, but you just don't seem to get it

[jon1959]

Your OP was about UK deaths, so the UK Gov must share responsibility for that. My comments related to Wales and the responsibility for healthcare rests solely with the Senedd. Its pretty straightforward, but you just don't seem to get it

I think everyone gets it.

They also get that any effective lockdown that the WAG might theoretically have put forward at an earlier stage couldn't have worked without an economic package alongside - and that means the UK government. They also get that the main public health messages received by the Welsh public have come from the UK government. I think that is also the case in Scotland where Nicola Sturgeon has been effective with a Scottish information campaign, but one that inevitably follows London.

You even suggested a few posts back that the WAG could have introduced quarantine for Welsh people flying into UK airports. How could that possibly work - without the full co-operation of other UK authorities. It is a very useful demonstration of how many holes there are in your assertion that 'responsibility for healthcare rests solely with the Senedd'. In practice there are major limits on how that devolved responsibility can be exercised.

[lisvaneblue]

I think everyone gets it.

They also get that any effective lockdown that the WAG might theoretically have put forward at an earlier stage couldn't have worked without an economic package alongside - and that means the UK government. They also get that the main public health messages received by the Welsh public have come from the UK government. I think that is also the case in Scotland where Nicola Sturgeon has been effective with a Scottish information campaign, but one that inevitably follows London.

You even suggested a few posts back that the WAG could have introduced quarantine for Welsh people flying into UK airports. How could that possibly work - without the full co-operation of other UK authorities. It is a very useful demonstration of how many holes there are in your assertion that 'responsibility for healthcare rests solely with the Senedd'. In practice there are major limits on how that devolved responsibility can be exercised.

Thanks for the balanced response. Under the Public Health act 1984 ( England and Wales)which is specifically about control of infectious diseases WAG could have instructed residents in Wales returning to a UK airport or a Welsh seaport like Pembroke, to quarantine/ self isolate for a period of time once back in their main residence. The same act allows us to stop sporting events, close schools, in fact much of what we term as lockdown. But rightly or not we initially went with a unified approach with the other home nations, and when it didn't work as well as expected in Wales, people like many who have made comments on this board, blamed Westminster, even when Westminster has no authority over healthcare in Wales.

And yes, co-operation is needed with other UK authorities, but the decisions made for Wales are made by the Senedd and they are totally responsible because healthcare is devolved.

We have not led on anything in Wales except maybe being very cautious. We could have because we have the authority to, but sadly we didn't.

[The Lone Gunman]

Your OP was about UK deaths, so the UK Gov must share responsibility for that. My comments related to Wales and the responsibility for healthcare rests solely with the Senedd. Its pretty straightforward, but you just don't seem to get it

Here's a questions for you:

If, as you have relentlessly maintained, the UK government bears no responsibility for combating Covid-19 in Wales, which is within the UK, then why did UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson send a letter to every household in Wales during the first week of April 2020 outlining the steps the UK government was taking to combat coronavirus and detailing the UK government's instructions to the public?

[life on mars]

Here's a questions for you:

If, as you have relentlessly maintained, the UK government bears no responsibility for combating Covid-19 in Wales, which is within the UK, then why did UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson send a letter to every household in Wales during the first week of April 2020 outlining the steps the UK government was taking to combat coronavirus and detailing the UK government's instructions to the public?

Perhaps a welsh one was planned , you and I dont know that detail ( you could raise that question though to your MP ) perhaps as medical officers speak more on a regular basis than the politician leaders leaders could it have been decided not to duplicate a standard message , of stay at home ,wash your hands , keep 2 meters etc , what could have be done differently to combat is the actual logistics knockdown

[lisvaneblue]

Here's a questions for you:

If, as you have relentlessly maintained, the UK government bears no responsibility for combating Covid-19 in Wales, which is within the UK, then why did UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson send a letter to every household in Wales during the first week of April 2020 outlining the steps the UK government was taking to combat coronavirus and detailing the UK government's instructions to the public?

Probably because he is PM of UK and felt the need to communicate to 30 million households to emphasise the importance of the stay at home message. He mentioned each home nation and their NHS staff in his letter.
He did not do it because his Government is in charge of UK healthcare because its not.....it’s devolved, that’s a fact.
I hope he got the approval of the first ministers of each country, but he is pig headed enough to go it alone. In Scotland households got two letters. Nicola Sturgeon sent her own at the same time, possibly to emphasise that she’s in charge of Public health and to take the wind out of his sails