Reply With QuoteExcuse me saying this, but your the one that seems a tad biasedOriginally Posted by Croesy Blue
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I've never seen anyone go to such lengths and jump for such hoops to defend something, it's actually ****ing mad how biased people can be.
Just because you voted for a party doesn't mean you have to defend everything they do, you can still agree with them on some things while criticising them where they deserve to be criticised.
Excuse me saying this, but your the one that seems a tad biased
Ironic, really.
I see you edited
You are literally saying the UK Government has nothing to do with the Covid situation in Wales you plonker and just because you don't want to criticise Boris. There is no one more biased than that.
I hate the tories but I happily praised their furlough scheme. I've voted labour and libdem before and I love slagging them off.
Ok let's look at the detail: The Senedd is responsible for healthcare is Wales as it has been devolved.
So the Senedd is responsible for: Primary Care provision, Secondary Care, Recruitment including medical staff, Public Health,....and focusing on Covid, they are responsible for CCU bed capacity, Hospital drug procurement, Equipment..ie like ventilators and CPAP machines, PPE, tracking and tracing, and testing. Plus of course their own version of the current lockdown measures.
For the record I do not think much of the job Westminster has done in England, but the things mentioned above are not the responsibility of UK Gov they are the responsibility of the Senedd.
So tell me what UK gov has had to do with the Covid situation in Wales?
If you need this explained to you again it isn't worth my time.
Just explain it to me once that'll do
I feel I owe the OP and others who may have wanted to contribute to this thread an apology for posting that although I know the Welsh Government have done very poorly over the last few months, I did have a degree of sympathy for them because they are hamstrung to an extent by the partial devolution from the UK Government that they enjoy. This prompted a reply from someone who, it seems, wants to absolve the UK Government of responsibility for what has happened in this country and since then the thread has become almost entirely a back and forth between him and those who disagree with him.
To try and return to the matter addressed in the opening post, rjk has already posted in another thread about the graphic shown on yesterday's Newsnight, but, for those who haven't seen it, it shows that the 359 deaths recorded in the UK's official figures yesterday was thirty five more than the total number of people who had died with the virus in the same twenty four hours as the twenty seven member countries of the EU put together.
Yes, there have to be the usual caveats about different recording methods, a lag in recording deaths etc. but, come on, that isn't anywhere near enough to explain away the awfulness of that statistic. UK Government apologists are soon going to have to resort to claiming that we are the only country in the world to be recording deaths properly in their efforts to defend Johnson and his Cabinet of mediocrities - one of whom is, hopefully, not suffering from the virus after having to self isolate after looking distinctly poorly while delivering a speech a day after the idiotic decision, which he voted for, to end the virtual Parliament came into force.
I mentioned Newsnight earlier, last night's programme was devoted to how the virus has devastated care homes. It was sobering and sad stuff which left me thinking there had been so many unnecessary deaths because of blundering by Government and their advisers, but, in a way, it washed over me because it was just more of the same that I have become used to since Johnson took half of February off.
All of this on the day that our Prime Minister declared he took responsibility for the way the virus has been handled and that the people of the UK should be "proud" of our record. What I found startling is that the nonentities in charge of the UK are still polling at 40% plus, why?
The only answer I can come up with is that f*cking Brexit is still regarded as the be all and end all for a sizeable number of UK voters despite the fact that we will, very likely, be passing 40,000 deaths later today (most people know that, in reality, the figure is anything up to 50 per cent higher than that) and we are facing an economic situation that has not been seen before in most of our lifetimes.
Remember that forecast about two months ago that predicted that a highest in Europe 67,000 would die in the UK from Covid 19? Everyone ridiculed it and it was subsequently reduced to 36,000 - their original figure is not going to be too far from right is it (in fact it could end up being too low).
On the day after the election in December I had two Brexit supporting friends of mine saying in e-mails that they felt proud of Britain and the people who lived there. It was a refrain that was repeated in the media over the days that followed - do they, like our Prime Minister, feel proud today? Shame is more what I feel.
Id feel feckin ashamed if id voted for this lot.
I thought a few pages back that you were asking a genuine (if odd) question.
But you have ignored all the many posts explaining in detail why the WAG does not have full autonomy in making and implementing public health decisions in Wales - from the need to tie lock-down to a Treasury funded financial rescue package, from the dominant UK-wide messaging from the Westminster government, through to issues about the need for collective procurement (economies of scale, avoiding outbidding other nations/regions, size of orders to secure contracts). And other factors as well that other posters have spelt out.
So clearly you are just on a wind up - and getting some perverse pleasure out of constantly restating the same discredited mantra.
Crumbs off the table, rural and old population not taken into consideration.
Nice post as usual Bob.
Yet again top posting Jon.
Im not on a wind up, and I do have a very good understanding of how UK healthcare operates. Ive been trying keep a balanced view from the many comments critical of UK Gov and it's negative influence on the control of Covid in Wales.
Don't for the moment think I am supporting the UK gov, I think its record on this pandemic is wanting, but I feel similarly about Wales where lots of key things like testing, PHE etc...you don't need me to go on...have also been wanting
There have been a lot of comments explaining why WAG does not have full autonomy and Ive been critical of some of them.
You mention the need for collective procurement, where did that come from?. And in my extensive experience in NHS procurement Ive never come across a bidding war nation v nation.
There is regular, but hardly dominant UK wide messaging giving the UK Gov angle, but I like many get my updates from BBC News. If you enjoy listening to the political updates, then Wales has its own each day as well
PHW would be dismissive of comments that through WAG it does not have full autonomy. It has the same level of autonomy as the other UK PublicHealth bodies.
The other issue frequently raised is that UK Gov moved too slowly on lockdown, and Wales couldn't act sooner because of the Treasury funding packages.
Yes, UK was behind other nations and should have moved sooner. I believe from comments made by Mark Drakeford and Nicola Sturgeon that they were well involved with Westminster on details of the lockdown and it was a good example of working in unison. Could it have happened sooner, maybe, but The Covid bill was linked to it and the financial packages, so who knows.
But Wales could have done some things sooner, without waiting for the 'lockdown' and to be fair did. One example on the board was closing schools. Scotland too worked quicker than Wales and England in outlawing crowds. I believe Wales could have done more, and as the pandemic has evolved it has done some things differently to other home nations and at a different pace.
So there you have it. Some people agree my views, some don't, and some just set about with personal insults because they say Im a Tory and live in a leafy part of Cardiff. That's life
No one is absolving sturgeon or drakeford of any blame, but the majority of the blame has to be with the UK Government.
England effectively pinched our testing kits and PPE, there was indeed reports of bidding wars between US states and between sovereign nations across the World, because the Welsh had bested the English in getting kits and PPE the UK Government pulled rank on England's part and pirated our stuff conveniently for them they said they were now going to order kit and PPE for the whole of the UK and then proportionally dish it out from there.
I couldn’t care a fig about USA, I was talking as you know about the four home nations. As for getting testing kits you’re implying that Roche reneged on a deal. I don’t think so and the company itself said the contract was not finalised.PPE another potential disaster of our own making, and as for pulling rank, are you making this up?
Here we go again blame everyone else but our own shortcomings
Don't listen to trampie, he has an ulterior motive when there's anything to do with Wales, England or the USA for some reason.
Try to concentrate on your feeble attempts at dismantling the arguments of everyone else who has expressed why the UK Govt. cannot be absolved of any blame for the way Covid-19 has impacted Wales.
I don't make anything up, I followed the news at the time therefore I think you are making it up ?
I mentioned the states within America for a reason as I watched that NYC mayor or whoever he was giving a press conference (they had him on every day - what was that all about ?, little coverage of yellow vests and loads of coverage of some Yank, was he in charge of a state, or a city or a borough ?).
Anyway this guy they used rave about him over here and the one time I seen him for more than a few minutes he was explaining in detail the madness of US states bidding against each other for testing kits/PPE and how the price for stuff as a result of bidding wars went up through the roof and how they had outbidded several states and then lost out to California for the medical supplies (I think that was the case anyway) and he thought the central Government should buy the supplies and then the states buy them for a reasonable price on a basis of need from central Government, next thing I'm reading about our lot doing more or less that, reports about nation's all competing for kits and PPE and supply not meeting demand.
We (Wales) had agreement for loads of kits and PPE when at a late stage it was pirated by the UK Government who was then going to dish it out (obviously most of it was then going to go to England due to Englands size compared to Wales and the other 2 home nation's), clearly originally we was all fending for ourselves and we got in and thought we had secured plenty of medical stuff for our citizens when either the UK Government or the English health authorities realised England had Porthcawl and sabotaged our deal for their benefit, devolved health my hair arse.
It must have moved since I left.
This is utter tripe. How about some evidence?
https://www.rhunapiorwerth.cymru/en/...n-ap-iorwerth/
A key part of the above quote from the shadow Welsh health minister was "Public Health Wales confirmation today that the UK Government did step in to take 5000 tests a day off Wales and to subsume into the general testing pool raises serious and fundamental questions about how the UK Government views Wales. What we have seen is the gazumping of a deal negotiated for the Welsh public"
This was a story that died on virtually the day it appeared. How could England steal Welsh PPE they did not own. Any PPE acquired by England was used for distribution under the arrangements made with the 4 UK governments. Even the Scots where this story originated later said the so called plundering of PPE by the English was absolute rubbish as indicated below:
"We think it's rubbish'
The suggestion of PPE being diverted to England from Scotland had earlier in the day been dismissed by the Scottish government's clinical director.
Prof Jason Leitch, speaking on the Good Morning Scotland programme, said: "We have looked into it and we think it's rubbish.
"So the companies, and our colleagues at NHS England yesterday when we spoke to them, said it wasn't true."
So let's get this straight: you understand and don't dispute that the UK government has been central and pivotal to the policies that have been implemented throughout the UK to tackle Covid-19, and you understand and don't dispute that the public in Wales and the rest of the UK have been guided as much by the UK government in Westminster as they have by any of the devolved administrations, but nevertheless you are steadfastly maintaining that the UK government bears no responsibility whatsoever for the Covid-19 situation in Wales.
I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that you can't see the contradiction in what you're saying.
The quote from the shadow Welsh health minister was about testing kits involving Wales, you are talking about some Jock referring to PPE, who by the way knows porthcawl about Wales and our arrangements.
As regards PPE
https://nation.cymru/news/uk-governm...rs-in-england/
That is straight from the horses mouth, straight from the company, not some manager paid a fortune by the NHS who might have a vested interest, not a politician for a devolved administration or the UK Government but straight from the company, I can put a link/screen shot up to their website if you don't believe the article.
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