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Once the furore over BLM dies down, the game should reflect seriously in the disproportional representation of non Black BAME - there's a lack of Asian, Jewish et al footballers in the British game.Originally Posted by life on mars
Sadly, I doubt that cause will be championed as much as BLM.
Once the furore over BLM dies down, the game should reflect seriously in the disproportional representation of non Black BAME - there's a lack of Asian, Jewish et al footballers in the British game.
Sadly, I doubt that cause will be championed as much as BLM.
How about answering the questions I asked you? Would you take the knee if you were playing in the Premier League today and, if you wouldn't, why?
Why do people get so worked up about something that they deride as a pointless gesture? Seems like snowflake behaviour to me, but it can't because we all know that description only applies to young, over sensitive, types types don't we.
banned in 3..2..1
funny as hell tho
How about checking your old, white privilege when demanding others answer YOUR questions?
No, I'd not take the knee. What is the goal? Recognising racism? Well, duh... we all recognise there's racism. Kneeing isn't fixing it anymore than wearing "Black Lives Matter" on the back of shirts fixes it. Focus on constructive solutions rather than knee-jerk gestures aimed at looking yourself look good.
As for your last comment, pathetic. You carry on backing empty gestures rather than constructive solutions if it makes yourself feel good.
You mentioned 'white privilege'. For me, the irony of the protests/riots was the university-educated, middle-class, London-centric white protesters, and on the other site the ill-educated, mainly working-class, non- London white men on the other site. It perfectly summed up the hypocrisy of the whole BLM business. If you're white, working class, poorly educated, there's no-one shouting for you..
I must say Ronnie....... telling it........sorry ccfc fc is my life that you're definitely coming across as very snowflakish today.
Can I ask how me wanting you to answer a couple of questions is anything to do with my white privilege? Seems to me that you don't really understand the issue here.
As for your second paragraph, are you trying to say that you wouldn't join in with a gesture that is now supported by the NFL and, apparently, is not frowned on by the Premier League and other leagues throughout the world because you're more noble than those who are doing it?
Your "constructive solutions" appears to involve saying that you would do something in refusing to take the knee that would, for right or wrong, be seized upon by all sorts of people at the extremes of both sides of this argument for the wrong reasons - reasons that would, almost certainly, lead to a worsening of the situation.
You might think it's an empty gesture but if 10 year olds across the country ask their mum or dad why their footie heroes are taking a knee and that starts a conversation that wouldn't otherwise be had then it's 100% worthwhile.
And your Liverpool point is some of the most ridiculous whattaboutery I've seen in a while, so because of an incident 9 years ago involving a player that left the club 6 years ago, anything this completely different set of players says or does in regard to racism is invalid? That's such an utterly pathetic attempt to try and find something to invalidate the protest it's embarrassing.
I don't have multi-accounts. Nice assumption on your part though.
Your problem is that you appear to want to project your own view into things written. I don't believe I'm more noble than anyone. I just believe in concrete measures rather than something that achieves basically nothing. Doing something for PR reasons achieves no end product in effect.
Your final paragraph is nothing more than conjecture. Clearly you're an empty vessel trying to speak loudest, so not worth responding to anymore.
Conversations are of course good but to little effect. Nobody is born racist, they learn to be racist from their environment, the biggest factor of which are direct family members. I very much doubt racist parents are going to magically be enlightened by this. If the parents aren't racist, then there's a very high chance the children have been raised to know racism is wrong.
Now would those children learn about casual racism and the issues BAME face, sure I'd agree with you. Education always good, but it would merely confirm their view racism is bad, not change a racist into a non-racist.
The Liverpool example points to the double standards within football. Suarez racist? But... he can't be... he scores goals. Leicester academy players fired for a racist video - Vardy doing similar gets a nice training course because he scores goals. Alli make racist video? 1 game ban. Asian players? Forget that...
Kneeling, putting BLM on the back of shirts isn't going to address or fix the fundamental problems football has with racism, merely conveniently ignore them for good PR.
Come on then, let's hear some of these "concrete measures". I assume that they must be more than the normal talking shops which achieve nothing that we have tended to see on the occasions when racism has been an urgent issue until things then returned to how they've always been.
Give Sludge a shout. He’ll willingly become offended on their behalf
Feck me theres some bollocks spouted on here
White blokes telling other white blokes that racism isnt a problem in wales despite our main centre of multi culturalism , butetown , being excluded from the rest of the city
Go to mermaid quay and it's all white people sucking on ice cream whilst half a mile away you have one of the country's most deprived communities living in tower blocks
And most people who live there are black , unlike the posters on here who tell us racism isnt a problem
Well, it wouldnt be for them , would it ?
A third of welsh school teachers report racist behaviour in the classroom
There is an excellent article written by sara robinson , a cardiff city fan who used to post on here , published in today's western mail ........its called the truth about racism in wales
In it she states that the physical wall separating butetown from the trendily called bay development kept the people of butetown segregated . The new bay are couldnt be less representative of cardiffs maritime cultural history if it tried .
There is not one statue dedicated to the people who helped build cardiff
Later on sara tells how she was walking in a city park and one of the other people in the park is black , he is stopped by the police .
On welsh Twitter a succession of white people , again fecking ironic , que up to post that racism isnt a problem in wales
Get off your knees, this is not america !
It is staggering arrogance for white welsh people to tell people from ethnic minorities living here that their experience is somehow imagined , exaggerated or invented .
How can white people who have never experienced persecution , racist taunts and jokes presume to be experts on how people who have and do experience it should feel or protest about it ?
The whitewashing of butetown extends to the workplace , our cultural life , our institutions
Black people are 8 times more likely to be stopped that white people
Racism may be less lethal , overt here but to deny it's a problem is to deny gravity , we continue to criminalise and discriminate against people of colour in 2020
We have a lot of work to do in wales before we are in any position to judge or tell protestors they have nothing to protest or that BLM is just a bunch of white middle class rich kids .....footage from the demo in cardiff shows people of all backgrounds and races were represented
An excellent article by sara , she is active on Twitter
As for the white working class none were born racist and your class does not make you a racist .
Do you think that the people on the cardiff demo BLM were university educated white middle class people ?
I would suggest you take a look at some of the tv coverage because it clearly shows you are incorrect
Several years ago the racist and fascist english defence league came to cardiff and over 1000 people from all races and backgrounds told them in no uncertain terms that they were not welcome . I was standing next to a cardiff lad of west indian descent and a white guy from grangetown who was a bricklayer . Betty Campbell one of the first west indian headteachers in the country was there with her family , there were people from the valleys , there were people of mixed race .
Now I know that you have an issue with BLM and you are entitled to that view however much I disagree with it but please dont label the movement as a bunch of bored liberal white university types as that's nonsense .
Quite.
I'd love to know how many messageboard posters regularly challenge supposedly innocent racist comments. I'd love to know how many actually know if such comments are racist.
Definitely Ronnie Bird.
Laura McAllister, another cardiff city fan , from bridgend , who is professor at cardiff university wales governance centre and a former captain of wales international football team has also written an article on racism , particularly in sport .
Shes on twitter , it's an excellent read
Carolyn Hitt is rugby obsessed and writes for wales online and the western mail
Her rugby bias aside she is a very sharp journalist
She is also on twitter and has written several articles on the denial of racism in cardiff by the establishment who are essentially white males
Her documentary the rugby code breakers talks about butetown legends like billy Boston who went north after being ignored by wales
There were others , most of whom were black
They were accused of taking the money but in the documentary she suggests and many agree with her , that institutional racism was the core of the problem
There is even a statute of billy boston in wigan
Yet he was a tiger bay boy , a cardiffian , and no statue is here for him
Oh that was a long time ago say some
But that's been said so many times before
Cardiff has one of the oldest multi racial communities in the uk yet the denial of racism by white people in cardiff is as much a part of cardiffs history as tiger bay . Beatrice Campbell in her book Goliath wrote those words and they are very relevant .
There is a Weatherspoons just outside the town centre at Wigan (can’t remember the name of it), and it is absolutely plastered with photos of Billy
Me!
I don't have a 'racist bone in my body'.
But for those who are (racist), I wonder whether all the BLM protests and is going to change their opinion.
no .. it won't but it might rally those that havent woken up to the situation that exsists
What is it you're fed up with mate?
People begruding of the fact that other people, whether they be of color or not, even mention that racism is a problem. Read a ****ing book, look in the mirror, realise how ****ing ignorant you are, apologise, and then get back to us with something constrauctive. PLEASE.
Some people really can't appreciate that not everyone has a similar experience in life or sees things through a different lens.
A good example is to think of job interviews. Two people are the leading candidates, both as strong as each other and both give great interviews. One is white, and one is black. The interview team are white. They are more likely to side with the white candidate (much more likely) NOT because they are racist, but because humans are tribal and are drawn towards others similar to them. They will find ways, subconsciously, to justify it.
This is very common and one of the solutions is quotas, which seems to upset many people because they don't understand the reason. An argument you hear against it is 'the job should go to the best person' but anyone who's ever done recruitment will know that there's normally not one miles ahead stand out person.
With a mainly white recruiting team, a white person will normally win the 50-50 calls. So a black person has to be much better than the white person to get the job. That doesn't seem fair, does it?
(all this is interchangable by the way. It could be a white person in China or Botswana who struggles. These kind of barriers exist all over the place, it's human nature)
I always see people on here saying racism is not really a problem any more, because black kids don't get called all sorts of names at school, or black families don't get 'GO HOME' graffitied on their house. But it definitely still exists and it's quite sad that so many don't want to listen about what it's really like to be in a minority.
Credit where its due Lardy. Thats a great post.
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