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Thread: The Hillary Clinton thread

  1. #1

    The Hillary Clinton thread

    Watching the Hillary docu's it's sad the number that has been done on her by the right wing press to keep her out of office, also the discrimination she has had to put up with because of her gender, her husband's womanising done her no favours.
    Then when she was set to be President being the highly intelligent experienced candidate up against a buffoon, she wins the 3 TV debates against the buffoon as expected and still loses due to the right wing press, female jealousy (which lots of women are known for) and the Russians interfering in the election to get Trump elected as Trump is their weak poodle and they were well scared of Hillary.
    Given America's position in the World it's a pity that such an intelligent leader didn't get the top job, she had tried to get universal health care for all Americans in the past but the powers that be went all out to stop it, I wonder if her political dna is influenced by her strong Welsh roots.

  2. #2

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Hillary was said to be ahead of her time, the tip of the spear, change she was was advocating was too much of a change at the time she was proposing it which was a pity for her on a personal level but she gets the ball rolling making it easier for others in the future.

  3. #3
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Hillary Clinton is intelligent, usually competent and rational and she genuinely pushes a number of progressive causes - but she is also a representative of the corporate elite, a warmonger and more than averagely corrupt for a career politician. Had she been elected in 2016 the USA would have maintained most of the Obama course (for good and bad) and would have remained the primary imperialist power in the world at the heart of all the alliances and agencies that support that. She is well to the right in the Democratic Party.

    I agree that symbolically a Clinton presidency would have changed perceptions about gender roles - as Obama's victory did about racial glass ceilings. That would have been a major positive.

    There seems to be a new batch of books and documentaries (maybe some re-releases) coming out that are giving Hillary Clinton a PR polish - maybe to emphasise the difference in ability and character with Trump. I would have Clinton or Biden any day over Trump and his white supremacist gang of crooks - but both of them are deeply flawed and dangerous (just not as dangerous as Trump). Don't buy into the spin.

  4. #4

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Seems like the voting public either strongly like or strongly dislike Hillary .

  5. #5

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Hillary Clinton is intelligent, usually competent and rational and she genuinely pushes a number of progressive causes - but she is also a representative of the corporate elite, a warmonger and more than averagely corrupt for a career politician. Had she been elected in 2016 the USA would have maintained most of the Obama course (for good and bad) and would have remained the primary imperialist power in the world at the heart of all the alliances and agencies that support that. She is well to the right in the Democratic Party.

    I agree that symbolically a Clinton presidency would have changed perceptions about gender roles - as Obama's victory did about racial glass ceilings. That would have been a major positive.

    There seems to be a new batch of books and documentaries (maybe some re-releases) coming out that are giving Hillary Clinton a PR polish - maybe to emphasise the difference in ability and character with Trump. I would have Clinton or Biden any day over Trump and his white supremacist gang of crooks - but both of them are deeply flawed and dangerous (just not as dangerous as Trump). Don't buy into the spin.
    Strongly to the left of the Democratic party on economic policy I would say but an imperialist war hawk like you say.
    For America at home she would have been good (unless she got involved in foreign wars), very strong and capable on policy, education, health, business and social policies but for the rest of the World bad imo as she would take sides on the foreign stage and no doubt sided with other imperialists and American puppets.

  6. #6

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    As regards a couple of your other observations jon, I do think of her as a career politician myself because she seems to have always been in politics but she was a lawyer at one point, on the corruption allegations that have dogged her they have been unfounded which is ironic in the current circumstances, right wing opponents and right wing press have accused her of this and that in the past but nothing criminal proven, yet after years of this the minute the other side get accusations levelled against them they go into a tail spin and the thing is there was nothing proven against Hillary yet the latest stories the other way round there was Russian involvement in helping Trump get in, so there is a case to answer there, ironic in it.

  7. #7

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Hillary Clinton is intelligent, usually competent and rational and she genuinely pushes a number of progressive causes - but she is also a representative of the corporate elite, a warmonger and more than averagely corrupt for a career politician. Had she been elected in 2016 the USA would have maintained most of the Obama course (for good and bad) and would have remained the primary imperialist power in the world at the heart of all the alliances and agencies that support that. She is well to the right in the Democratic Party.

    I agree that symbolically a Clinton presidency would have changed perceptions about gender roles - as Obama's victory did about racial glass ceilings. That would have been a major positive.

    There seems to be a new batch of books and documentaries (maybe some re-releases) coming out that are giving Hillary Clinton a PR polish - maybe to emphasise the difference in ability and character with Trump. I would have Clinton or Biden any day over Trump and his white supremacist gang of crooks - but both of them are deeply flawed and dangerous (just not as dangerous as Trump). Don't buy into the spin.
    Do agree , don't like these Dynasties either, how could one be objective ?

  8. #8

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    On checking Hillary's voting record and subsequent political ranking by various different groups she comes out very left wing, occupying a similar place to Bernie Sanders the self proclaimed socialist who is often called a communist yet her ranking is out there with him, there are not many ranked further left than her, she was ranked more left wing than Obama even, but of course when it comes to foreign policy she has a right wing expansionist attitude.

  9. #9
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    On checking Hillary's voting record and subsequent political ranking by various different groups she comes out very left wing, occupying a similar place to Bernie Sanders the self proclaimed socialist who is often called a communist yet her ranking is out there with him, there are not many ranked further left than her, she was ranked more left wing than Obama even, but of course when it comes to foreign policy she has a right wing expansionist attitude.
    We will have to agree to disagree on that.

    I accept that she has championed a number of progressive causes - LGBT rights etc - but I don't think she is anywhere near Bernie Saunders. And even Bernie has bent to the corporations, the lobbies and the PACs holding the electoral purse-strings more than he likes to admit.

  10. #10

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    We will have to agree to disagree on that.

    I accept that she has championed a number of progressive causes - LGBT rights etc - but I don't think she is anywhere near Bernie Saunders. And even Bernie has bent to the corporations, the lobbies and the PACs holding the electoral purse-strings more than he likes to admit.
    I've got the rankings from various different sources that position her well to the left, they rank senators on how left or right they are (based on voting record for one) and come out with league tables.
    I mention it because I was somewhat surprised myself but that seems to be where various different ranking people put her (strange why she doesn't get called a commie by opponents but that might be because she is very anti communist and verbally attacks Russia and China).

  11. #11

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Unless of course Jon the Yankee understanding of what is left and what is right is different to our own understanding this side of the pond.
    And comparing her to Bernie out on the left was comments I read analysing some of the rankings, not my own take.

  12. #12
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Unless of course Jon the Yankee understanding of what is left and what is right is different to our own understanding this side of the pond.
    And comparing her to Bernie out on the left was comments I read analysing some of the rankings, not my own take.
    It used to be the case that popular ideas of left and right were different in the USA from Europe (and most other places). When I was a youngster I understood the Democrats to be the equivalent of One-Nation Tories and the Republicans to be the same as Tories from Thatcher to modern day UKIP. They both relied on big donors. They both bent to the pressure of lobbyists. They were both supporters of American big business and did what they could to guarantee profits (often through massive exploitation of workers - including children - and poorer countries' natural resources, lobsided trade deals, manipulation through the IMF and World Bank and creation of new markets for arms manufacturers). Both backed tyrants if the tyrants backed the USA.

    The difference was that the Democrats had more structural connections to organised labour and progressive movements (even if the leadership of the AFL-CIO was often crooked most of the affiliated locals were not).

    I think American politics has polarised more in recent decades and more differences have opened up between the main parties. There hasn't been anyone like Bernie Saunders in the Democrat tent for a few generations, and the emergence of social media and more single issue campaigns has changed the map and the access to ideas and information. I don't think the consensus has broken down between the R and D camps in Washington - but out in the country it looks as if it has.

  13. #13

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    It used to be the case that popular ideas of left and right were different in the USA from Europe (and most other places). When I was a youngster I understood the Democrats to be the equivalent of One-Nation Tories and the Republicans to be the same as Tories from Thatcher to modern day UKIP. They both relied on big donors. They both bent to the pressure of lobbyists. They were both supporters of American big business and did what they could to guarantee profits (often through massive exploitation of workers - including children - and poorer countries' natural resources, lobsided trade deals, manipulation through the IMF and World Bank and creation of new markets for arms manufacturers). Both backed tyrants if the tyrants backed the USA.

    The difference was that the Democrats had more structural connections to organised labour and progressive movements (even if the leadership of the AFL-CIO was often crooked most of the affiliated locals were not).

    I think American politics has polarised more in recent decades and more differences have opened up between the main parties. There hasn't been anyone like Bernie Saunders in the Democrat tent for a few generations, and the emergence of social media and more single issue campaigns has changed the map and the access to ideas and information. I don't think the consensus has broken down between the R and D camps in Washington - but out in the country it looks as if it has.
    Snap, that is my take and my historical understanding as well Jon.

  14. #14

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    What you get from Democrats and Republicans is that America is great theme , both will to go to war , bomb , apply regime change and operate internal diversion politics . Real left wing has no chance, old Hilary is a smug politician and can turn quite nasty , she said old Bernie He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done," Clinton says. :

    "He was a career politician. Its all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it. When asked if her assessment of the presidential candidate still holds as we enter the 2020 caucuses, she said it does.*

  15. #15

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Bernie the American Corbyn.

  16. #16

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Bernie the American Corbyn.
    I don't think so ,there is no socialism in the USA .

  17. #17

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I don't think so ,there is no socialism in the USA .
    There is no socialism in the UK.

  18. #18

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    I am sure that when the Comet Ping Pong Benghazi Podesta Bleached Hard drive Uranium One Clinton Foundation Collusion Delusion investigation pronounces it's bombshell then the recent reappraisal of Hilary's political talents will get the hammering they deserve.

    Anyone know where we are with this as we have been promised the day of reckoning is coming for over four years now!

  19. #19

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    I am sure that when the Comet Ping Pong Benghazi Podesta Bleached Hard drive Uranium One Clinton Foundation Collusion Delusion investigation pronounces it's bombshell then the recent reappraisal of Hilary's political talents will get the hammering they deserve.

    Anyone know where we are with this as we have been promised the day of reckoning is coming for over four years now!
    Wheels of justice turn slowly,

  20. #20

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Hillary has lots of Welsh roots come to think of it the recent ex Aussie prime minister was the same, Welsh women traditionally rule the roost so it's no surprise really.

  21. #21

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    There is no socialism in the UK.
    Really wow ,thanks for that .

  22. #22

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Hillary has lots of Welsh roots come to think of it the recent ex Aussie prime minister was the same, Welsh women traditionally rule the roost so it's no surprise really.
    Did she go to a Welsh Hairdresser to get them done ?

  23. #23

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Did she go to a Welsh Hairdresser to get them done ?
    She uses Hair Dai.

  24. #24

    Re: The Hillary Clinton thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    She uses Hair Dai.
    😀

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