So England is re-opening

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I think we'll be ok over next couple of months, with most people, in Wales certainly, being sensible.

Have you been to the valleys?

[blue matt]

I know a few like that who are actually continuing to claim furlough money.

if they are self employed it is actually " Self-employment Income Support Scheme " you can claim and still work, it is designed to top up your SE income ( if effected )

for some this means a moral issue, for example Ive claimed for the 1st 3 months period ( i was off to 2 of them and unsure if i was going to work when i claimed ) my income is still effected, as i said, i am not doing about £900 of work a week due to them being closed or i have been told to pause my cleaning , so my income is effected

saying that, i have customers who are employed and not wanting to go back to work, one said to me last week " why go back and work when they are paying me 100% of my wage " he is saying he does not feel safe going back to work and his union has said they will back him, now he knows exactly what he is upto, he moans about the economy and the damage this will do, yet just plays the game and is staying home, now the 4th July is around the corner, he will be going down to his caravan for the summer

[Eric the Half a Bee]

if they are self employed it is actually " Self-employment Income Support Scheme " you can claim and still work, it is designed to top up your SE income ( if effected )

for some this means a moral issue, for example Ive claimed for the 1st 3 months period ( i was off to 2 of them and unsure if i was going to work when i claimed ) my income is still effected, as i said, i am not doing about £900 of work a week due to them being closed or i have been told to pause my cleaning , so my income is effected

saying that, i have customers who are employed and not wanting to go back to work, one said to me last week " why go back and work when they are paying me 100% of my wage " he is saying he does not feel safe going back to work and his union has said they will back him, now he knows exactly what he is upto, he moans about the economy and the damage this will do, yet just plays the game and is staying home, now the 4th July is around the corner, he will be going down to his caravan for the summer

However, it's government money going back into the economy. I've read some considerations that a universal income trial could be the best thing to kick start our economy.

[lardy]

And apparently the virus doesn't like the hot weather so we might not get a second wave until it gets colder, so in Scotland that will be July.

Two of the first countries to be affected in a big way after China were Singapore and Iran, so I'm not sure we can rely on that theory.

[bobh]

This is going to go badly in my opinion.

Unfortunately, I agree.

There's going to be a"second wave" around the end of July by the time the figures get reported.

[Jordi Culé]

Pubs, restaurants, hairdressers, campsites, holiday parks, hotels, B&B’s etc

2m rule halved.

Surely now Wales will have to all in to match England. If they remove the 5m local rule and nothing else then Wales is going to pile into England and leave the local economy behind

I think Boris is doing the right thing, we’ve all had enough of drinking in the house and it’s time to get back into the pubs and use them as we do as ‘Brits’ in our usual manner of quiet reserve, polite and civil behaviour. We all should be proud how as a nation we handle the effects of alcohol.

I also fully endorse ‘opening up’ without this nonsense of a ‘track n trace’ app as I can’t really see any point, I mean we handled the initial spread of the pandemic brilliantly by ensuring most parts of the UK got it’s fair share. We should be organising a number of big events to ensure this happens again. Anyone up for a late Glastonbury or perhaps just let people in to watch the football?

[bobh]

I think Boris is doing the right thing, we’ve all had enough of drinking in the house and it’s time to get back into the pubs and use them as we do as ‘Brits’ in our usual manner of quiet reserve, polite and civil behaviour. We all should be proud how as a nation we handle the effects of alcohol.

I also fully endorse ‘opening up’ without this nonsense of a ‘track n trace’ app as I can’t really see any point, I mean we handled the initial spread of the pandemic brilliantly by ensuring most parts of the UK got it’s fair share. We should be organising a number of big events to ensure this happens again. Anyone up for a late Glastonbury or perhaps just let people in to watch the football?

I think this is the trouble.
Boris is doing what the public wants, not what the science dictates.
The sensible brits will go to a pub, drink 1 metre away from others, gety pissed then mingle.

There'll be a second wave before Autumn.

[Trigger]

Boris can't really win though, whatever people's thoughts on him he can either continue to open up, which common sense would say puts people at a greater risk or continue to keep these businesses closed and in which case they permanently close putting thousands upon thousands out of work which in turn brings its own problems.

[delmbox]

Boris can't really win though, whatever people's thoughts on him he can either continue to open up, which common sense would say puts people at a greater risk or continue to keep these businesses closed and in which case they permanently close putting thousands upon thousands out of work which in turn brings its own problems.

You're right in one sense in that no matter how they try to come out of it they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. But he's quite clearly throwing out any attempt at a slow easing back to normality - why drop the 2m and open everything up in one fell swoop? Why not stagger it so you don't go off a cliff edge?

If nothing else, if there is a spike it'll be impossible to nail down what the reason was because such big changes were made at once.

[Jordi Culé]

Boris can't really win though, whatever people's thoughts on him he can either continue to open up, which common sense would say puts people at a greater risk or continue to keep these businesses closed and in which case they permanently close putting thousands upon thousands out of work which in turn brings its own problems.

I feel for Boris, obviously following the science and medical opinion has brought us to where we are. He’d have been better off undertaking a libertarian, nonchalant outlook to the pandemic underpinned by political ideals and a superiority complex. No room for pragmatism in this situation frankly.

He’s done alright so far and most expect to see it get better very soon.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53159918

[The Lone Gunman]

You're right in one sense in that no matter how they try to come out of it they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. But he's quite clearly throwing out any attempt at a slow easing back to normality - why drop the 2m and open everything up in one fell swoop? Why not stagger it so you don't go off a cliff edge?

The difficulty he and every other politician has is that as soon as they open up one area of activity, those employed in or representing or supporters of others are understandably upset and want to get back to some sort of normality themselves. It's only natural.

The more differences there are between businesses and sectors, the more confusion there is among the public. That's another major issue.

[Eric Cartman]

I'm not so sure. Through necessity, I think an awful lot of people have changed their habits in terms of working, shopping and socialising. I think we'll see a relatively slow return to normality, which will help to keep the virus under control for now. Of course, the winter months may be a different story.

How much of this change is enforced though. The main problem is that the majority of people know they aren't really at risk, what is stopping them slipping back to normality?

[The Bloop]

I think this is the trouble.
Boris is doing what the public wants, not what the science dictates.
The sensible brits will go to a pub, drink 1 metre away from others, gety pissed then mingle.

There'll be a second wave before Autumn.

I'm of the view that Boris is opening up parts of the tourism and hospitality sector now as it's the only chance that much it will have to survive. Nice weather, school holidays, 14 day isolation back in the uk should you holiday abroad.
Come the autumn when the weather cools, kids are back at school and more and more people are back at work , I'm certain we'll see a second wave and the lockdown will be back.

[Eric Cartman]

Boris can't really win though, whatever people's thoughts on him he can either continue to open up, which common sense would say puts people at a greater risk or continue to keep these businesses closed and in which case they permanently close putting thousands upon thousands out of work which in turn brings its own problems.

They are in a tricky position, caused primarily by their own inaction at the vital time.

London is an international hub, the government use that as an excuse right now, rather than a reason back then to take the precautions that were obviously necessary.

[The Lone Gunman]

How much of this change is enforced though. The main problem is that the majority of people know they aren't really at risk, what is stopping them slipping back to normality?

Very little, but the changes I've alluded to are noticeable. In my experience, a lot of the people who have been working at home during the pandemic are likely to continue to do that for some time, if not permanently then a lot more often. Most of the shops reopened in Cardiff on Monday but they were very quiet. Public transport is still very quiet. The traffic on the roads has increased but it's still quiet in normal terms. People have been getting into the habit of socialising in their gardens more often than before and I think that will continue as long as the weather holds.

Things will undoubtedly move back towards normality, but as I say I think it's going to be a gradual process.

[delmbox]

Very little, but the changes I've alluded to are noticeable. In my experience, a lot of the people who have been working at home during the pandemic are likely to continue to do that for some time, if not permanently then a lot more often. Most of the shops reopened in Cardiff on Monday but they were very quiet. Public transport is still very quiet. The traffic on the roads has increased but it's still quiet in normal terms. People have been getting into the habit of socialising in their gardens more often than before and I think that will continue as long as the weather holds.

Things will undoubtedly move back towards normality, but as I say I think it's going to be a gradual process.

You raise a good point here, in that even if things are completely relaxed there will from now on be an element of social distancing regardless because the last 3 months have changed working patterns so a lot more people will be working from home from now on, possibly permanently. That's a lot of potential situations for spreading the virus that will have disappeared

[splott parker]

Reopening in stages may have been a better option, with a number of places and businesses being allowed to open simultaneously it’s going to be very difficult to pinpoint which sector is the problem should there be a second wave. With the restrictions it seemed straightforward to realise that meat packing places were a problem, with a free for all opening of businesses will finding the source of a second wave be as easy?

[The Lone Gunman]

You raise a good point here, in that even if things are completely relaxed there will from now on be an element of social distancing regardless because the last 3 months have changed working patterns so a lot more people will be working from home from now on, possibly permanently. That's a lot of potential situations for spreading the virus that will have disappeared

About three weeks ago, my bosses asked me and my mate (who have been in the office throughout the pandemic) to do some social distancing work with our desks and the IT equipment to enable a few more people to come back in due course. Having seen the floor plans and photos of the new set-up, they said they were very pleased with the job we'd done. We got loads of plaudits for it. A few days later, my most senior boss let slip during a one-to-one discussion that she doesn't expect any more than a handful of staff to come back into the office before Christmas at the earliest as things have been working well under the current arrangements and productivity has actually increased in some areas.

For context, we have a staff of around 40. The most people we've had in the office at any one time during the lockdown is six, and even then a couple of those only called in for an hour or two to carry out specific tasks they couldn't do at home.

I'm sure there are lots of offices like ours. Indeed, the others on our site haven't reopened anywhere near fully. This has the knock-on effect of fewer people on the roads, less people on public transport, less people in the shops (we're a short walk from the city centre), etc.

I'm loving the new situation. It's often just me and my mate in the office, so there's nobody there for me to upset.

[delmbox]

About three weeks ago, my bosses asked me and my mate (who have been in the office throughout the pandemic) to do some social distancing work with our desks and the IT equipment to enable a few more people to come back in due course. Having seen the floor plans and photos of the new set-up, they said they were very pleased with the job we'd done. We got loads of plaudits for it. A few days later, my most senior boss let slip during a one-to-one discussion that she doesn't expect any more than a handful of staff to come back into the office before Christmas at the earliest as things have been working well under the current arrangements and productivity has actually increased in some areas.

For context, we have a staff of around 40. The most people we've had in the office at any one time during the lockdown is six, and even then a couple of those only called in for an hour or two to carry out specific tasks they couldn't do at home.

I'm sure there are lots of offices like ours. Indeed, the others on our site haven't reopened anywhere near fully. This has the knock-on effect of fewer people on the roads, less people on public transport, less people in the shops (we're a short walk from the city centre), etc.

I'm loving the new situation. It's often just me and my mate in the office, so there's nobody there for me to upset.

Sounds lovely

I'm due to be back at my normal job in September (touch wood)

The production office upstairs usually has 40+ people in it, it's been decided that that can now only be 6 due to social distancing. The majority of people will continue to work from home, probably staggered I'd have thought

[Former Labour leader]

About three weeks ago, my bosses asked me and my mate (who have been in the office throughout the pandemic) to do some social distancing work with our desks and the IT equipment to enable a few more people to come back in due course. Having seen the floor plans and photos of the new set-up, they said they were very pleased with the job we'd done. We got loads of plaudits for it. A few days later, my most senior boss let slip during a one-to-one discussion that she doesn't expect any more than a handful of staff to come back into the office before Christmas at the earliest as things have been working well under the current arrangements and productivity has actually increased in some areas.

For context, we have a staff of around 40. The most people we've had in the office at any one time during the lockdown is six, and even then a couple of those only called in for an hour or two to carry out specific tasks they couldn't do at home.

I'm sure there are lots of offices like ours. Indeed, the others on our site haven't reopened anywhere near fully. This has the knock-on effect of fewer people on the roads, less people on public transport, less people in the shops (we're a short walk from the city centre), etc.

I'm loving the new situation. It's often just me and my mate in the office, so there's nobody there for me to upset.

Sounds great, but I wonder if the 'bosses' will decide they don't in fact need all this staff, after all?

[Hilts]

Pubs need to open at some point.

Did the bufoon really have to make it on Saturday 4th July. Already bollox about being some sort of Independence Day..

The press and social media pictures that will come out of pissed up drinkers is easy to predict.

Should have opened on a week day.

[The Lone Gunman]

Sounds great, but I wonder if the 'bosses' will decide they don't in fact need all this staff, after all?

We were heading that way anyway. We currently have a staff of 44 (I think - that's approximate), including some who are part-time and a significant percentage who are agency temps. The office has recently undergone a major refurbishment, during which the number of standard workstations was reduced from around 40 to 24. The work was completed the week before the lockdown began, which is quite funny in retrospect - we now have a brand new office space with hardly anyone in it.

Under the proposed, pre-coronavirus arrangements, nobody was supposed to have a permanent desk of their own, a percentage of people would be encouraged to work at home and the staff levels would be reduced in line with the requirements of new IT systems which were being introduced just as things were locking down.

A few of the agency temps are being let go at the end of this month (three I think) and a few more will follow in due course, but that's not a surprise development - it was planned all along. What's changed is that all of the staff have been using the new systems at home rather than a percentage of them on a rota basis, and it's been happening a lot sooner than was anticipated.

[dandywarhol]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...anges-22241035
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a9577666.html
Couple of interesting articles.you pay your money you take your choice.

[The Bloop]

Pubs need to open at some point.

Did the bufoon really have to make it on Saturday 4th July. Already bollox about being some sort of Independence Day..

The press and social media pictures that will come out of pissed up drinkers is easy to predict.

Should have opened on a week day.

Wouldn't fancy being a doorman trying to limit the number of people going for a drink at their local.

[Former Labour leader]

We were heading that way anyway. We currently have a staff of 44 (I think - that's approximate), including some who are part-time and a significant percentage who are agency temps. The office has recently undergone a major refurbishment, during which the number of standard workstations was reduced from around 40 to 24. The work was completed the week before the lockdown began, which is quite funny in retrospect - we now have a brand new office space with hardly anyone in it.

Under the proposed, pre-coronavirus arrangements, nobody was supposed to have a permanent desk of their own, a percentage of people would be encouraged to work at home and the staff levels would be reduced in line with the requirements of new IT systems which were being introduced just as things were locking down.

A few of the agency temps are being let go at the end of this month (three I think) and a few more will follow in due course, but that's not a surprise development - it was planned all along. What's changed is that all of the staff have been using the new systems at home rather than a percentage of them on a rota basis, and it's been happening a lot sooner than was anticipated.

I seem to recall you work in Companies House. I left the Civil Service many years ago before redundancies and downsizing started to kick in. Much as I fondly remember my Inland Revenue colleagues, who, like me, went on strike for 3 months, for better pay, I am glad I got out when I did.
I suspect this is a unsettling time for you.