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Thread: Rebecca Long-Bailey Sacked

  1. #31
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Rebecca Long-Bailey Sacked

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    Jon, the bit that I don't get is your last sentence that this is somehow a betrayal of the Palestinians. The stuff that got Long-Bailey into trouble was about the Israeli state's relationship or otherwise with US forces of law and order, which don't seem to have factual substance.

    If the Labour Party was able to legitimately differentiate between what the Israeli State does to deny the Palestinians their legitimate rights and support them in that cause it might have more resonance than re-tweeting anything that shows the Israeli state in a bad light whether it has anything to do with their appalling treatment of the Palestinians or not.

    You could equally betray the Palestinians because in your aim to support their cause you allow your legitimate concerns to be drowned out by highlighting everything anti-Israeli whether it impacts the Palestinians or not and allows lobbying groups to cry foul. This has been easy territory for the latter and the kind of trolling idiots that periodically pop up on this Board in their various guises.

    In my opinion the way any legitimate resistance to oppression, expropriation and persecution of Palestinian Arabs by Israel (either in Israel proper or the occupied territories or West Bank/Gaza) is hamstrung by the way all those criticisms and solidarity actions are labelled 'antisemitic' - the false conflation of Israel with Zionism with Jewish people. That is the intention and it works. Kier Starmer reinforced that when he described the Maxine Peake comment about shared 'restraint' techniques as an antisemitic conspiracy theory - and I believe that idea (which has gained more and more currency in recent years) is a betrayal of the Palestinian resistance. Choke holds are used in both countries (loads of photographic evidence) and both countries share training programmes for police and military. That is not disputed.

    I agree with your second point. It was naive to retweet that article and even more naive not to expect the reaction RLB got. It hasn't helped the Palestinian cause at all. The Israeli government and other agencies in Israel and the USA have been denying for weeks that choke holds were part of the training programmes. In the absence of hard evidence the claim should not have been made, and if made and refuted (the Amnesty clarification) should have been withdrawn and an apology made. Maxine Peake did that but RLB seems not to have been given the opportunity.

    I also agree with your last point. This sort of argument - even if only with Ronnie and his clones on a football message board - is not productive (is a side issue or distraction) and could drown out the more important things that impact on justice, peace and security in Israel/Palestine and the wider world. I don't think I have ever started a thread on this subject but I have been wound up enough to reply - and I don't want to go through a repeat of that dialogue of the deaf that we had last year before the election. It is like Groundhog Day.

    I have spent all afternoon discussing this with family and friends - most of whom think Starmer has played a blinder - and none of whom are interested in whether the original claim made by Maxine Peake (and thousands of others) was right or wrong or a comment on current events or a sinister conspiracy theory. They all saw it as a PR move that was a stunning success. They are probably right.

  2. #32

    Re: Rebecca Long-Bailey Sacked

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    In my opinion the way any legitimate resistance to oppression, expropriation and persecution of Palestinian Arabs by Israel (either in Israel proper or the occupied territories or West Bank/Gaza) is hamstrung by the way all those criticisms and solidarity actions are labelled 'antisemitic' - the false conflation of Israel with Zionism with Jewish people. That is the intention and it works. Kier Starmer reinforced that when he described the Maxine Peake comment about shared 'restraint' techniques as an antisemitic conspiracy theory - and I believe that idea (which has gained more and more currency in recent years) is a betrayal of the Palestinian resistance. Choke holds are used in both countries (loads of photographic evidence) and both countries share training programmes for police and military. That is not disputed.

    I agree with your second point. It was naive to retweet that article and even more naive not to expect the reaction RLB got. It hasn't helped the Palestinian cause at all. The Israeli government and other agencies in Israel and the USA have been denying for weeks that choke holds were part of the training programmes. In the absence of hard evidence the claim should not have been made, and if made and refuted (the Amnesty clarification) should have been withdrawn and an apology made. Maxine Peake did that but RLB seems not to have been given the opportunity.

    I also agree with your last point. This sort of argument - even if only with Ronnie and his clones on a football message board - is not productive (is a side issue or distraction) and could drown out the more important things that impact on justice, peace and security in Israel/Palestine and the wider world. I don't think I have ever started a thread on this subject but I have been wound up enough to reply - and I don't want to go through a repeat of that dialogue of the deaf that we had last year before the election. It is like Groundhog Day.

    I have spent all afternoon discussing this with family and friends - most of whom think Starmer has played a blinder - and none of whom are interested in whether the original claim made by Maxine Peake (and thousands of others) was right or wrong or a comment on current events or a sinister conspiracy theory. They all saw it as a PR move that was a stunning success. They are probably right.


    So the two of you combine to concoct a word salad to divert from your repeated sub theme !

    Won't work.

    How very very typical that you accuse me of dishonesty ( because that's what multi IDs would be) because I complain about your bigotry. You've said that before and it's been disproven, so you know it's a plain lie, yet you follow the same course of your horrible predecessors through history and accuse the victims !

    You posted this crap AGAIN and you posted that disgusting cartoon which represented a LIE and depicted a Jewish soldier with the same distorted degenerate looking face that the Nazi cartoonists used !

    Every time you post such filth I shall confront you on it because that is the duty of all decent human beings.

  3. #33

    Re: Rebecca Long-Bailey Sacked

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    In my opinion the way any legitimate resistance to oppression, expropriation and persecution of Palestinian Arabs by Israel (either in Israel proper or the occupied territories or West Bank/Gaza) is hamstrung by the way all those criticisms and solidarity actions are labelled 'antisemitic' - the false conflation of Israel with Zionism with Jewish people. That is the intention and it works. Kier Starmer reinforced that when he described the Maxine Peake comment about shared 'restraint' techniques as an antisemitic conspiracy theory - and I believe that idea (which has gained more and more currency in recent years) is a betrayal of the Palestinian resistance. Choke holds are used in both countries (loads of photographic evidence) and both countries share training programmes for police and military. That is not disputed.

    I agree with your second point. It was naive to retweet that article and even more naive not to expect the reaction RLB got. It hasn't helped the Palestinian cause at all. The Israeli government and other agencies in Israel and the USA have been denying for weeks that choke holds were part of the training programmes. In the absence of hard evidence the claim should not have been made, and if made and refuted (the Amnesty clarification) should have been withdrawn and an apology made. Maxine Peake did that but RLB seems not to have been given the opportunity.

    I also agree with your last point. This sort of argument - even if only with Ronnie and his clones on a football message board - is not productive (is a side issue or distraction) and could drown out the more important things that impact on justice, peace and security in Israel/Palestine and the wider world. I don't think I have ever started a thread on this subject but I have been wound up enough to reply - and I don't want to go through a repeat of that dialogue of the deaf that we had last year before the election. It is like Groundhog Day.

    I have spent all afternoon discussing this with family and friends - most of whom think Starmer has played a blinder - and none of whom are interested in whether the original claim made by Maxine Peake (and thousands of others) was right or wrong or a comment on current events or a sinister conspiracy theory. They all saw it as a PR move that was a stunning success. They are probably right.
    One of those modern buzzwords that so annoy me is "optics", but I'm going to use it here because, for me, this issue is all about the optics whereby I believe the public at large (who, in a poll last year, were in favour of this country having a "strong" leader by a margin of almost two to one) will see Starmer's decision as being a "strong" one.

    If people want to the contrast that with the actions of our "strong man" PM,who, laughably, told a Labour MP representing a Brighton constituency that the representatives of that city should "show some guts" and champion their constituencies at PMQs on the day before we saw those scenes at Bournemouth (there were also incidents at Brighton that day which have tended to be overshadowed by what happened further along the coast)

    https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/...n-to-visitors/

    then I wouldn't have thought the Labour leader will be too unhappy.

  4. #34
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    Re: Rebecca Long-Bailey Sacked

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    So the two of you combine to concoct a word salad to divert from your repeated sub theme !

    Won't work.

    How very very typical that you accuse me of dishonesty ( because that's what multi IDs would be) because I complain about your bigotry. You've said that before and it's been disproven, so you know it's a plain lie, yet you follow the same course of your horrible predecessors through history and accuse the victims !

    You posted this crap AGAIN and you posted that disgusting cartoon which represented a LIE and depicted a Jewish soldier with the same distorted degenerate looking face that the Nazi cartoonists used !

    Every time you post such filth I shall confront you on it because that is the duty of all decent human beings.
    Pathetic! More invention, more insults, more distortions, and much more froth!

    The victims are George Floyd and other young black men killed by American police, and the Palestinian men, women and children killed in similar circumstances by Israeli forces. You don't seem concerned for these real victims - you never have in all your trolling.

    What has not been proven - and so should not be claimed - is that a knee to the neck was used in joint training programmes. The use of similar restraint techniques is a fact - not a lie - and parts of the Israeli press have illustrated that in recent weeks with archive photos.

    The cartoon was commissioned and published by The Times Of Israel in Jerusalem.

  5. #35
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    Re: Rebecca Long-Bailey Sacked

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    One of those modern buzzwords that so annoy me is "optics", but I'm going to use it here because, for me, this issue is all about the optics whereby I believe the public at large (who, in a poll last year, were in favour of this country having a "strong" leader by a margin of almost two to one) will see Starmer's decision as being a "strong" one.

    If people want to the contrast that with the actions of our "strong man" PM,who, laughably, told a Labour MP representing a Brighton constituency that the representatives of that city should "show some guts" and champion their constituencies at PMQs on the day before we saw those scenes at Bournemouth (there were also incidents at Brighton that day which have tended to be overshadowed by what happened further along the coast)

    https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/...n-to-visitors/

    then I wouldn't have thought the Labour leader will be too unhappy.
    I think you are right. I don't agree with Starmer, but I would not be surprised to see another poll bounce in the coming weeks.

  6. #36

    Re: Rebecca Long-Bailey Sacked

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    So the two of you combine to concoct a word salad to divert from your repeated sub theme !

    Won't work.

    How very very typical that you accuse me of dishonesty ( because that's what multi IDs would be) because I complain about your bigotry. You've said that before and it's been disproven, so you know it's a plain lie, yet you follow the same course of your horrible predecessors through history and accuse the victims !

    You posted this crap AGAIN and you posted that disgusting cartoon which represented a LIE and depicted a Jewish soldier with the same distorted degenerate looking face that the Nazi cartoonists used !

    Every time you post such filth I shall confront you on it because that is the duty of all decent human beings.
    On this subject matter denial always going to exist .

    The link is the hatred of the Israeli state and the fact its cleverly tagged to the jewish people , there are crimes all over the world, look at Assad but you won't see old Maxine and her like banging on about that .

    Kier made mistake adding RLB to his team its was just to appease the left , silly thing to do as she us part of this cancer in the party .

    You watch if the Human Rights Commission comes out badly for Labour it will be called a right wing media vendetta.

    Instead of being big enough to accept there is an issue its supporters cow tail away from the obvious issue that exists, they even don't accept the mutterings of many iof its brave MP's who bravely accept it's an issue, and many capable MP's have been lost to the party as a result sadly , who could take on the Tories .

    Disgusting behaviour of the party who shine a beacon on being inclusive, even if its one or many delivering this mantra of hatred , its one too many .

    If Keir carries on with the gutting of the nasties , bringing the party back to a place where it not driven by narrow minded politics.. he could ndeed be a PM in waiting , and a good leader on the world stage , that embodies progressive politics , is able to influence and discuss issues in the world like the Palestinian cause , rather than resort to the nasty social media jibes that helps no one.

    Crack on Kier , get rid of the lot .

  7. #37
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Rebecca Long-Bailey Sacked

    Rebecca long-Bailey replaced as Shadow Education spokesperson by Kate Green - the former chair of Owen Smith's failed leadership challenge against Jeremy Corbyn.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tion-secretary

    Another triumph for the 'unity' leader!

    All the best Kate - despite the sub-text I hope you do a great job!

  8. #38

    Re: Rebecca Long-Bailey Sacked

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Rebecca long-Bailey replaced as Shadow Education spokesperson by Kate Green - the former chair of Owen Smith's failed leadership challenge against Jeremy Corbyn.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tion-secretary

    Another triumph for the 'unity' leader!

    All the best Kate - despite the sub-text I hope you do a great job!
    I understand she's is a very good choice , been championing child poverty, one parent families for many years , nice to see a 60 year old getting a chance as well , experience counts

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