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Thread: This government is a complete shambles

  1. #76

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    6
    Don't you mean that the majority of tracing has been done by public sector workers Bob?
    Yes I did, sorry about that, but I notice you did not comment on what else I said - I think it was something like 15,000 out of almost 114,000 in the latest figures that were traced by the 25,000 new recruits.

    The impression given, which seems a fair one to me, is of a Government obsessed by targets, but with little in place to co-ordinate things efficiently once they are reached.

  2. #77

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Yes I did, sorry about that, but I notice you did not comment on what else I said - I think it was something like 15,000 out of almost 114,000 in the latest figures that were traced by the 25,000 new recruits.

    The impression given, which seems a fair one to me, is of a Government obsessed by targets, but with little in place to co-ordinate things efficiently once they are reached.
    I see PHE is getting the flack for much of what has gone wrong with tracking& tracing, including the farce of developing an app from scratch.

    A surprise to me but apparently the Government has no authority over the independence of Public Health England.

    Meanwhile at home, the Senedd has asked Ryanair to postpone its Cardiff flight(s) to Faro and Malaga on Friday as Wales still has 5 mile travel guidance in place, and travellers will have to quarantine for 14 days on return as that's the rules in Wales.

    So two days before the flight from a WAG owned airport the Senedd jumps into action.

  3. #78

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    What amazes me with people like Sludge (and there are others) is how one dimensional their thinking is. They simply can't accept that Labour can do anything wrong. Instead people on here are treated like something on the bottom of their shoe and you only have to vote Tory a few times and you are Tory scum. For the record Labour's report on the election defeat was clear but some just simply can't accept why people voted Tory even though the Labour hierarchy seemed to. The reasons were:

    1. The unpopularity of Corbyn
    2. Confused Brexit policy (so elected the architect as their new Leader)
    3.Unrealistic manifesto and:
    4.Disorganised national campaign.

    Here's the link from the Guardian

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...lection-defeat

    Of course Sludge and some others ignore all this and revert to statements such as how could the electorate vote Tory and it's the electorate's fault. He dismisses people who voted Tory and keeps saying the BBC's political editor is a Tory. I didn't realise that especially as Kuensberg required a bodyguard at the 2017 Tory conference for her perceived anti Tory views. She did criticise Corbyn but was not alone and was even defended by Yvette Cooper.

    The evidence is clear from the Labour Party itself. So let's stop the name calling and just let people vote how they vote without criticising individuals for their decisions.

    I could vote Labour again but will have to see how things will pan out over the next 4 years. Starmer's made a good start even though I thought he was a bad choice.

    Like some other Tory voters on here I am not locked into one political party but vote for a party on their policies. As for the last election I simply could not vote for any party led by Corbyn, Abbot and McDonald with Momentum lurking in the background.

  4. #79
    Heisenberg
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    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    What amazes me with people like Sludge (and there are others) is how one dimensional their thinking is. They simply can't accept that Labour can do anything wrong. Instead people on here are treated like something on the bottom of their shoe and you only have to vote Tory a few times and you are Tory scum. For the record Labour's report on the election defeat was clear but some just simply can't accept why people voted Tory even though the Labour hierarchy seemed to. The reasons were:

    1. The unpopularity of Corbyn
    2. Confused Brexit policy (so elected the architect as their new Leader)
    3.Unrealistic manifesto and:
    4.Disorganised national campaign.

    Here's the link from the Guardian

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...lection-defeat

    Of course Sludge and some others ignore all this and revert to statements such as how could the electorate vote Tory and it's the electorate's fault. He dismisses people who voted Tory and keeps saying the BBC's political editor is a Tory. I didn't realise that especially as Kuensberg required a bodyguard at the 2017 Tory conference for her perceived anti Tory views. She did criticise Corbyn but was not alone and was even defended by Yvette Cooper.

    The evidence is clear from the Labour Party itself. So let's stop the name calling and just let people vote how they vote without criticising individuals for their decisions.

    I could vote Labour again but will have to see how things will pan out over the next 4 years. Starmer's made a good start even though I thought he was a bad choice.

    Like some other Tory voters on here I am not locked into one political party but vote for a party on their policies. As for the last election I simply could not vote for any party led by Corbyn, Abbot and McDonald with Momentum lurking in the background.
    It works both ways though. There are numerous posters on here (and people in society) so entrenched in their political ideologies that they can only see good in their party of choice and bad in the other.

    This isn't a Labour-only problem... and if you think it is, then you're a part of the problem in the discussion.

  5. #80
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    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    I actually think sludge will be happy if the Labour scum lose their hold on the Welsh government next year because then he will have even more to complain about!
    Nothing that goes wrong will ever be Labour's fault and he can keep telling everyone that Labour wouldn't have fecked thinks up with the absolute certainty that no one will be able to prove him wrong, because they won't be in power.
    It's sad but I really think it's true. He wants to be one of the oppressedrighteous minority. He feeds on it.

  6. #81

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    What has Michael Grade got to do with the BBC now?
    He was director general , and a huge tory , not that long ago

    But of course , the bbc is left wing ....

  7. #82

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    Well.if Labour hadn't voted in a terrorist sympathiser as leader............

    I have voted Liberal,SDP, Liberal Democrat over the years.

    And Labour in the council elections.

    Several times in all cases.

    ESA Work Capability Assessments were carried out by ATOS from the start by healthcare professionals hired by ATOS not just doctors.

    I am pretty sure it was every couple of years from the start.

    it was ATOS who carried out the DLA assesments in 2007 when my wife had her last DLA renewal. It was more random then and she wasn't interviewed but I read the same horror stories as we hear these days.

    My wife is now on PIP, not without a Mandatory reconsideration but she is getting the full amount now.
    Shes still going to get hauled in for an assessment

    So welcome to tory britain

    Ten years they have been in , a disabled person is awarded a benefit , after having to fill in a dreadful stressful form , more than likely attend an interview

    Then forced to fill in another form and probably face another assessment to prove she isnt disabled

    Who brought this increased testing in and mandatory reconsideration in ?

    I will give you a clue , it was Iain Duncan Smith , tory

    If you need any help riverside advice centre in cardiff are the place to go or speakeasy law centre

    Good luck

  8. #83

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    What amazes me with people like Sludge (and there are others) is how one dimensional their thinking is. They simply can't accept that Labour can do anything wrong. Instead people on here are treated like something on the bottom of their shoe and you only have to vote Tory a few times and you are Tory scum. For the record Labour's report on the election defeat was clear but some just simply can't accept why people voted Tory even though the Labour hierarchy seemed to. The reasons were:

    1. The unpopularity of Corbyn
    2. Confused Brexit policy (so elected the architect as their new Leader)
    3.Unrealistic manifesto and:
    4.Disorganised national campaign.

    Here's the link from the Guardian

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...lection-defeat

    Of course Sludge and some others ignore all this and revert to statements such as how could the electorate vote Tory and it's the electorate's fault. He dismisses people who voted Tory and keeps saying the BBC's political editor is a Tory. I didn't realise that especially as Kuensberg required a bodyguard at the 2017 Tory conference for her perceived anti Tory views. She did criticise Corbyn but was not alone and was even defended by Yvette Cooper.

    The evidence is clear from the Labour Party itself. So let's stop the name calling and just let people vote how they vote without criticising individuals for their decisions.

    I could vote Labour again but will have to see how things will pan out over the next 4 years. Starmer's made a good start even though I thought he was a bad choice.

    Like some other Tory voters on here I am not locked into one political party but vote for a party on their policies. As for the last election I simply could not vote for any party led by Corbyn, Abbot and McDonald with Momentum lurking in the background.
    But you have voted by a bunch of chancers and incompetants like boris , gove , hancock , patel etc

    Kuennsberg is a well known tory , she was a tory at university and shes been a tory through her career

    But it's not just her , there are plenty of tories in the bbc

  9. #84

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I actually think sludge will be happy if the Labour scum lose their hold on the Welsh government next year because then he will have even more to complain about!
    Nothing that goes wrong will ever be Labour's fault and he can keep telling everyone that Labour wouldn't have fecked thinks up with the absolute certainty that no one will be able to prove him wrong, because they won't be in power.
    It's sad but I really think it's true. He wants to be one of the oppressedrighteous minority. He feeds on it.
    We have had ten years of the tories in now

    Boris the idiot and his band of acolytes are running the show

    This country has had it

    I didnt vote for the idiots

  10. #85
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    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Here's something for the Labour voting members of this board to ponder.
    The electoral commission reports on the need to change constituency boundaries in order to adjust for the movement of population and the rise in it in certain areas, in order to keep the numbers in constituencies relatively similar. They normally report about once every 5 years and the government then raises a bill to adjust the constituencies.
    This has not actually happened for nearly 20 years. firstly the Labour party refused to bring a bill to parliament because they were afraid the new constituencies would adversely affect them in a general election. Then in the coalition government of 2010 the Lib Dems agreed to support a bill to change boundaries in exchange for the Government having a referendum on proportional representation.
    The government had the referendum but the Lib Dems cause was defeated. The party then reneged on their agreement (Never trust a Lib Dem) and refused to support the bill, which then had to be withheld.
    Now, with an absolute majority in the Commons the Government is bringing forward a new bill to alter the system but effectively to enact the changes in the latest boundary review.
    It is estimated by the people who count these things that the net effect of the changes would give the Conservative Party a further 40+ seats in any future election. (It must be borne in mind the boundaries commission is a non-political institution)
    Taking into account their current majority, the fact that they are unlikely to recapture their erstwhile Scottish 'safe' seat any time soon and the new 40+, it would seem that the chances of Labour forming a government any time in the future is receding even more.

    What are peoples' views on that?

  11. #86

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    It works both ways though. There are numerous posters on here (and people in society) so entrenched in their political ideologies that they can only see good in their party of choice and bad in the other.

    This isn't a Labour-only problem... and if you think it is, then you're a part of the problem in the discussion.
    You obviously didn't read or understand my post.

  12. #87
    Heisenberg
    Guest

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    Here's something for the Labour voting members of this board to ponder.
    The electoral commission reports on the need to change constituency boundaries in order to adjust for the movement of population and the rise in it in certain areas, in order to keep the numbers in constituencies relatively similar. They normally report about once every 5 years and the government then raises a bill to adjust the constituencies.
    This has not actually happened for nearly 20 years. firstly the Labour party refused to bring a bill to parliament because they were afraid the new constituencies would adversely affect them in a general election. Then in the coalition government of 2010 the Lib Dems agreed to support a bill to change boundaries in exchange for the Government having a referendum on proportional representation.
    The government had the referendum but the Lib Dems cause was defeated. The party then reneged on their agreement (Never trust a Lib Dem) and refused to support the bill, which then had to be withheld.
    Now, with an absolute majority in the Commons the Government is bringing forward a new bill to alter the system but effectively to enact the changes in the latest boundary review.
    It is estimated by the people who count these things that the net effect of the changes would give the Conservative Party a further 40+ seats in any future election. (It must be borne in mind the boundaries commission is a non-political institution)
    Taking into account their current majority, the fact that they are unlikely to recapture their erstwhile Scottish 'safe' seat any time soon and the new 40+, it would seem that the chances of Labour forming a government any time in the future is receding even more.

    What are peoples' views on that?
    That gerrymandering should be illegal.

  13. #88

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    That gerrymandering should be illegal.
    No, Its the current out of date situation that should be made illegal

  14. #89

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    That gerrymandering should be illegal.
    Naive response. I bet Labour wouldn't reorganise the boundaries in similar circumstances LOL.

  15. #90
    Heisenberg
    Guest

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    You obviously didn't read or understand my post.
    Nice rebuttal.

    Shall I explain your own post to you?

    Your post was entirely about Sludge and the other Labour voters on here who see only good in Labour and bad in the Tories:

    "They simply can't accept that Labour can do anything wrong. Instead people on here are treated like something on the bottom of their shoe and you only have to vote Tory a few times and you are Tory scum."

    There's no nuance or balance in your post following that either. There are Conservative voters on here who are just as hyperbolic and and vitriolic as the posters you're referring to... By focussing on one side of the argument you become part of the problem.

    The extreme left and extreme right as bad as each other when it comes to defending their parties and attacking their rivals. You failed to mention that.

    Have I been... Vindec-ated?

  16. #91
    Heisenberg
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    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    No, Its the current out of date situation that should be made illegal
    Go on...

  17. #92
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    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    That gerrymandering should be illegal.
    It's not gerrymandering. It had happened for a long time under all governments. as I said the organisation is apolitical, and takes no regard to voting intentions (how could they from a map) merely changes in demographics, and things like younger people coming into the voting age. It doesn't always favour the Conservative party, or sometimes any party, it is just a function of democracy to ensure all constituencies are as the same numerically as can be achieved. It just happens to favour them now as it did back on 2003 or whenever when the ruling Labour Government kicked it into the long grass for exactly the same reason.
    Clearly if a Labour Government were in power it would be kicked into the long grass again and equally if the changes tended to show a higher chance of Labour winning seats then a Conservative Government would do the same. That's just the luck of timing I suppose.

  18. #93
    Heisenberg
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    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    Naive response. I bet Labour wouldn't reorganise the boundaries in similar circumstances LOL.
    Typical Tory wanker response LOL

    (Just trying to meet your expectations)

  19. #94
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    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Nice rebuttal.

    Shall I explain your own post to you?

    Your post was entirely about Sludge and the other Labour voters on here who see only good in Labour and bad in the Tories:

    "They simply can't accept that Labour can do anything wrong. Instead people on here are treated like something on the bottom of their shoe and you only have to vote Tory a few times and you are Tory scum."

    There's no nuance or balance in your post following that either. There are Conservative voters on here who are just as hyperbolic and and vitriolic as the posters you're referring to... By focussing on one side of the argument you become part of the problem.

    The extreme left and extreme right as bad as each other when it comes to defending their parties and attacking their rivals. You failed to mention that.

    Have I been... Vindec-ated?
    I agree! No I don't! Yes I do! no I dont!

  20. #95
    Heisenberg
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    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    It's not gerrymandering. It had happened for a long time under all governments. as I said the organisation is apolitical, and takes no regard to voting intentions (how could they from a map) merely changes in demographics, and things like younger people coming into the voting age. It doesn't always favour the Conservative party, or sometimes any party, it is just a function of democracy to ensure all constituencies are as the same numerically as can be achieved. It just happens to favour them now as it did back on 2003 or whenever when the ruling Labour Government kicked it into the long grass for exactly the same reason.
    Clearly if a Labour Government were in power it would be kicked into the long grass again and equally if the changes tended to show a higher chance of Labour winning seats then a Conservative Government would do the same. That's just the luck of timing I suppose.
    I'm not in favour of it helping Labour either. Any party which chooses to change the borders of constituencies for political gain are c**ts.

    We only have to look at how gerrymandering being used in the States to see how it would be implemented here. We're slowly looking more like the 51st state by the day.

  21. #96
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    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    Here's something for the Labour voting members of this board to ponder.
    The electoral commission reports on the need to change constituency boundaries in order to adjust for the movement of population and the rise in it in certain areas, in order to keep the numbers in constituencies relatively similar. They normally report about once every 5 years and the government then raises a bill to adjust the constituencies.
    This has not actually happened for nearly 20 years. firstly the Labour party refused to bring a bill to parliament because they were afraid the new constituencies would adversely affect them in a general election. Then in the coalition government of 2010 the Lib Dems agreed to support a bill to change boundaries in exchange for the Government having a referendum on proportional representation.
    The government had the referendum but the Lib Dems cause was defeated. The party then reneged on their agreement (Never trust a Lib Dem) and refused to support the bill, which then had to be withheld.
    Now, with an absolute majority in the Commons the Government is bringing forward a new bill to alter the system but effectively to enact the changes in the latest boundary review.
    It is estimated by the people who count these things that the net effect of the changes would give the Conservative Party a further 40+ seats in any future election. (It must be borne in mind the boundaries commission is a non-political institution)
    Taking into account their current majority, the fact that they are unlikely to recapture their erstwhile Scottish 'safe' seat any time soon and the new 40+, it would seem that the chances of Labour forming a government any time in the future is receding even more.

    What are peoples' views on that?

    2019 election: Labour 32.1% of the vote and 31.1% of the seats; Tories 43.6% of the vote and 56.2% of the seats


    2017 election: Labour 40.0% of the vote and 40.3% of the seats; Tories 42.3% of the vote and 48.8% of the seats


    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...es-into-seats/


    The Tory party clearly need more help to overcome the structural disadvantage they have with the electoral system!

  22. #97

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    I voted tory last time, I will not do so again - however it will take some convincing to vote labour.

    I think that stance will be the same for a lot of people.

    Tories got in on the back of brexit, they'll leave on the back of Covid.

  23. #98
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    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    I'm not in favour of it helping Labour either. Any party which chooses to change the borders of constituencies for political gain are c**ts.

    We only have to look at how gerrymandering being used in the States to see how it would be implemented here. We're slowly looking more like the 51st state by the day.
    I agree with you in principle but this isn't a political party, it is an independent review body that has been in existence for a very long time to do just this thing. As I said, they report about 5 years and the report is reviewed by a cross party committee chaired by the Speaker. then the government is supposed to put the proposed changes to parliament and has no power to alter or amend any part of it.

  24. #99

    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    2019 election: Labour 32.1% of the vote and 31.1% of the seats; Tories 43.6% of the vote and 56.2% of the seats


    2017 election: Labour 40.0% of the vote and 40.3% of the seats; Tories 42.3% of the vote and 48.8% of the seats


    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...es-into-seats/


    The Tory party clearly need more help to overcome the structural disadvantage they have with the electoral system!
    Well that's a shock

  25. #100
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    Re: This government is a complete shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    2019 election: Labour 32.1% of the vote and 31.1% of the seats; Tories 43.6% of the vote and 56.2% of the seats


    2017 election: Labour 40.0% of the vote and 40.3% of the seats; Tories 42.3% of the vote and 48.8% of the seats


    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...es-into-seats/


    The Tory party clearly need more help to overcome the structural disadvantage they have with the electoral system!
    But its' nothing to do with help it is just a function of the state, and is of no political hue what so ever. It may work the other way in years to come as it has in the past.

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