Boundary help

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Hi all,

Tonight I've been involved in a boundary dispute with my neighbour. We are the middle two houses in a "terrace" of 4, so we don't have side access to our properties. I live on a hill so houses tend to be a different height, if not per house, then by a 2 house build. I guess it makes boundary recognition easy.

1594763015037.jpg

This is the back of the house. There appears to be a clear dividing line. However, my neighbour is claiming that her land is over a foot past that, so virtually to the start of the downstairs window and that her guttering is allowed to overspill as it's on her land. Deeds don't provide anything conclusive. At the front, the accepted divide is along the same line as the back.

There is a twist. She had an extension build 10 years ago that is not on land registry. The line down the garden veers into our land.

She is bad mouthing us to everyone in the street.

Anyone with any ideas?

[Former Labour leader]

Hi all,

Tonight I've been involved in a boundary dispute with my neighbour. We are the middle two houses in a "terrace" of 4, so we don't have side access to our properties. I live on a hill so houses tend to be a different height, if not per house, then by a 2 house build. I guess it makes boundary recognition easy.

1594763015037.jpg

This is the back of the house. There appears to be a clear dividing line. However, my neighbour is claiming that her land is over a foot past that, so virtually to the start of the downstairs window and that her guttering is allowed to overspill as it's on her land. Deeds don't provide anything conclusive. At the front, the accepted divide is along the same line as the back.

There is a twist. She had an extension build 10 years ago that is not on land registry. The line down the garden veers into our land.

She is bad mouthing us to everyone in the street.

Anyone with any ideas?

Be very wary about getting involved in a boundary dispute. Never ends well and can be very costly.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Be very wary about getting involved in a boundary dispute. Never ends well and can be very costly.

I'm aware of that. However, the cost is that my neighbour could well end up with quite a bit of land of ours free of charge.

[LeningradCowboy]

Just call 02476 868 555 and you will be put in touch with an RICS member local to you, willing to provide a free 30 minute initial consultation. Lines are open 0830 –1730, Monday to Friday.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Just call 02476 868 555 and you will be put in touch with an RICS member local to you, willing to provide a free 30 minute initial consultation. Lines are open 0830 –1730, Monday to Friday.

Cheers. Will do. Thanks. I don't want bad feelings with my neighbours, but it needs sorting especially if either of us sells.

[LeningradCowboy]

https://www.ricsfirms.com/residentia...dary-disputes/

RICS Consumer Guide: Boundary Disputes

[xsnaggle]

Is the implication regarding the extension that it did not have planning permission?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Is the implication regarding the extension that it did not have planning permission?

Possibly, but we don't know. It might explain why our neighbours have been very aggressive towards us when we've suggested getting things sorted out legally.

[xsnaggle]

Possibly, but we don't know. It might explain why our neighbours have been very aggressive towards us when we've suggested getting things sorted out legally.

That's what I was thinking. If it does not have permission and the builder overstepped the boundary it will have to be demolished!
Or reasonable neighbours could come to a reasonable agreement.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

That's what I was thinking. If it does not have permission and the builder overstepped the boundary it will have to be demolished!
Or reasonable neighbours could come to a reasonable agreement.

I'm quite happy to be reasonable, even with the bottom of the garden where they have about 2 feet more than at the top. She's claiming some land at the top that would come inside our bottom window. That I can't agree with.

[CCFCC3PO]

That's what I was thinking. If it does not have permission and the builder overstepped the boundary it will have to be demolished!
Or reasonable neighbours could come to a reasonable agreement.

I reckon the neighbours have cocked up here as well (being kind to them), but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they did this illegally. Is there anywhere where past planning applications can be viewed?

They may be getting upset about the legal avenue because it costs money, or because they know they're on a loser, or because it may highlight other work.

Very interesting, but not very pleasant, never nice falling out with neighbours. I fell out with neighbours previously because they kept blocking a driveway.

I would have thought deeds would be held somewhere and, yes, get it sorted asap. As soon as someone moves in it will no longer be their responsibility so it gets trickier. Also, this could result in your house having a lower valuation, not exactly fair.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[NYCBlue]

Aren't property boundaries a matter of public record?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Aren't property boundaries a matter of public record?

They're not kept well enough to be that service.

[Former Labour leader]

Aren't property boundaries a matter of public record?

They're not 100% accurate.

[blue matt]

in the past ive worked on many houses like this in S Wales, the boundary will be the edge of the house, look at the top and follow the line down, its even made easier with the yellow ( ish ) paint

the fascia and gutter will be overhanging on your land

[Van Halen]

If the extension has been there for over 4 years it’s exempt from planning enforcement action by virtue of section 171B of the Town and County Planning Act 1990. Your neighbour can apply (and automatically be granted providing they can evidence the extension being there for at least 4 years) a lawful development certificate to regularise it.

[Optimistic Nick]

If the extension has been there for over 4 years it’s exempt from planning enforcement action by virtue of section 171B of the Town and County Planning Act 1990. Your neighbour can apply (and automatically be granted providing they can evidence the extension being there for at least 4 years) a lawful development certificate to regularise it.

Is that the same as making it her land though? Like squatter's rights? I can imagine that there is something that grants the neighbour an easement for the overhanging guttering after a period of time which might be the only point of contention, but Does the provision you cite mean that the land below is legally hers now too?

OP- are there any downpipes, drains etc on that wall?

[Van Halen]

I’m just speaking from a town planning (law) perspective. Land ownership is a completely separate matter.

The Council cannot make them knock it down or make alterations to it if it’s been there (without planning permission) more than 4 years.

Any land ownership matters will be between the OP and his neighbour and ultimately for the courts to decide and cost £££. The council will not get involved.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Is that the same as making it her land though? Like squatter's rights? I can imagine that there is something that grants the neighbour an easement for the overhanging guttering after a period of time which might be the only point of contention, but Does the provision you cite mean that the land below is legally hers now too?

OP- are there any downpipes, drains etc on that wall?

I think that the law regarding squatters' rights has changed as I looked into claiming a two-metre strip at the bottom of my garden and which belongs to the college behind me. The colleague has no access to the strip as it has built a ten-foot high fence two metres inside its own boundary. However, not have I been tending to that strip for ten years (as it was originally overgrown with a mass of impenetrable brambles) I dug it over at the beginning of lockdown and it has now become a vegetable allotment. However, the research I did seemed to indicate that I can't simply claim it, as would have been possible twenty years ago.

[WJ99mobile]

Just call 02476 868 555 and you will be put in touch with an RICS member local to you, willing to provide a free 30 minute initial consultation. Lines are open 0830 –1730, Monday to Friday.

Best advice.

You’re probably right but seems loads of assumptions being made possibly steering you incorrectly.

[WJ99mobile]

If the extension has been there for over 4 years it’s exempt from planning enforcement action by virtue of section 171B of the Town and County Planning Act 1990. Your neighbour can apply (and automatically be granted providing they can evidence the extension being there for at least 4 years) a lawful development certificate to regularise it.

Always thought it 7!

Learn something new each day

[Van Halen]

4 years for operational development (i.e. a building or structure), 10 years for a change of use or breach of a planning condition.

Although a change of use to residential is also 4 years.

[xsnaggle]

4 years for operational development (i.e. a building or structure), 10 years for a change of use or breach of a planning condition.

Although a change of use to residential is also 4 years.

But if the building was constructed without permissions originally and it encroaches on another persons land?

[Elwood Blues]

Cheers. Will do. Thanks. I don't want bad feelings with my neighbours, but it needs sorting especially if either of us sells.

No one wants bad feelings with their neighbours Eric ( been through that in a more minor way,they've moved now luckily),unfortunately by the way she is behaving that ship may have sailed

[Eric the Half a Bee]

in the past ive worked on many houses like this in S Wales, the boundary will be the edge of the house, look at the top and follow the line down, its even made easier with the yellow ( ish ) paint

the fascia and gutter will be overhanging on your land

Absolutely. That's what we are claiming.

We had another rant from her this morning so we've asked her to provide legal proof the boundary is where she says it is. I've been around the other houses in the streets nearby and every single boundary is exactly as you describe.