Should we throw a welcome party

[blue matt]

1. She's our problem
2. She will go to prison
3. She was a child. She was brainwashed. Her brain wasn't fully developed.

point 3, she was 15 and knew exactly what she was doing, brain washed or not, she wanted to be part of the " new world " that she was promised

brain wasnt fully developed ? ? ? are you saying she did not know what she was doing when she headed to syria ? ? ?

[life on mars]

I'm allowed to be 'outraged' 'offended' 'upset' 'Annoyed' or even mildly amused by what you say. Why are you attempting to 'Police' my emotions?

Looking back you seem to refer to me as an android, I admire your cascade for justice for this poor girl , for me she doesn't deserve justice she's not a criminal she is a enemy of our country , she declared war , as did all her Isis pal's , tgeybwent on to kill and behead westerners .

I simply don't see it your way , if that makes me an android so be it as long as my family are safe while people such as her are left in no well land , I don't care.

This country gave that girl and her family a new beginning all she had to do was accept the care attribute her .

[life on mars]

point 3, she was 15 and knew exactly what she was doing, brain washed or not, she wanted to be part of the " new world " that she was promised

brain wasnt fully developed ? ? ? are you saying she did not know what she was doing when she headed to syria ? ? ?

Greta Thunberg was 15 as she spoke and understood life.

Of ourse she knew what she was doing , you can see that in the planned way she left the country, I'd say she was very advanced for her years to begin her 15 year old life as she did ,she investigated it, she read up on it ,disgusued it from her parents , got out of the country as a 15 year old , how many 15 year old have that drive ,capacity, canniness ,not many only the bright determined ones ,most are happy on tic tic ,not this one she wanted to join a bunch of blood thirsty maniacs

[Tuerto]

point 3, she was 15 and knew exactly what she was doing, brain washed or not, she wanted to be part of the " new world " that she was promised

brain wasnt fully developed ? ? ? are you saying she did not know what she was doing when she headed to syria ? ? ?

What were you doing and thinking at 15? And do you act and think the same now?

[cyril evans awaydays]

What were you doing and thinking at 15? And do you act and think the same now?

If you believe LoM a few years later he was fighting anything that moved and following Frankie into scraps without a thought for the consequences but hey-ho!

[blue matt]

What were you doing and thinking at 15? And do you act and think the same now?

but i still knew what was right and wrong at 15, i still knew good choices and bad choices, more importantly i knew i was responsible for my choices

yes i know she was most likely brainwashed and told this " new world " would be the place to be, but lets not kid ourselves that she knew what she was getting into, it was no secret what Daesh were upto and what they were about

[Tuerto]

If you believe LoM a few years later he was fighting anything that moved and following Frankie into scraps without a thought for the consequences but hey-ho!

And i know that Matt loved his rave scene and the extracurricula that went with it, so to speak. I know that neither followed a murderous regime, granted (Although i've never met the fabled Frankie) the point is that they were thinking like 15 year olds because they were still kids.

[Tuerto]

but i still knew what was right and wrong at 15, i still knew good choices and bad choices, more importantly i knew i was responsible for my choices

yes i know she was most likely brainwashed and told this " new world " would be the place to be, but lets not kid ourselves that she knew what she was getting into, it was no secret what Daesh were upto and what they were about

Maybe she thought it was the right thing to do, maybe she sees what she did as political or oddly enough, romantic.

[cyril evans awaydays]

And i know that Matt loved his rave scene and the extracurricula that went with it, so to speak. I know that neither followed a murderous regime, granted (Although i've never met the fabled Frankie) the point is that they were thinking like 15 year olds because they were still kids.

We can disappear down whatever rabbit holes we choose in this thread. At the end for me it comes down to whether if you think the British judicial system is one of the best in the world (and it is one of the the things I think I can still say is world-class) then if the 15 yr old girl that left and the adult who may return should be subject to that law as a British citizen/subject just like you would hope if your teenager went awol. If we don't have that we just drift into the kind of vindictiveness of vigilantes or mob justice.

[Tuerto]

We can disappear down whatever rabbit holes we choose in this thread. At the end for me it comes down to whether if you think the British judicial system is one of the best in the world (and it is one of the the things I think I can still say is world-class) then if the 15 yr old girl that left and the adult who may return should be subject to that law as a British citizen/subject just like you would hope if your teenager went awol. If we don't have that we just drift into the kind of vindictiveness of vigilantes or mob justice.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[jon1959]

She was a child.
She was groomed and probably statutory rape was involved, and shes seen 3 of her own children die.
An she was born in this country.

Yes punish her for what she's done, but she was born here, and it's our laws she has broken, so she should be punished here.

I have a problem with revoking citizenship (and that is not condoning her actions). It shouldn't be in a country's remit to make people stateless. Instead of letting her back in the country and charging her for crimes committed, the Government went the other way.

Don't care about the girl in question, although she was young at the time she made her choice. My concern is with the ease at which citizenship can be revoked.

Bangladesh yes though they have gone on record that she has no citizenship. If it wasn't for all the populist tub thumping that we get in these cases and a couple of successive governments trying to look hard in the face of the law this could have been handled more maturely and her crimes, for that is what they are as a citizen of this country, could have been dealt with with the full force of UK law.

Agreed.

She is UK-born; a child when groomed; a victim as well as a cheerleader for a murder cult and very confused from the different statements I have seen from her. She is our problem, not the Kurds or Bangladeshis. She should not be made stateless in an arbitrary decision by the Home Secretary (no consistency of criteria there). She should be brought back to the UK and prosecuted.

[Dorcus]

Agreed.

She is UK-born; a child when groomed; a victim as well as a cheerleader for a murder cult and very confused from the different statements I have seen from her. She is our problem, not the Kurds or Bangladeshis. She should not be made stateless in an arbitrary decision by the Home Secretary (no consistency of criteria there). She should be brought back to the UK and prosecuted.

Agreed and in any case trying to cast off someone's nationhood is an attempt to foist the problem on another state in an attempt to avoid responsibility and I wonder if it's legitimate in international law. We should be mature enough to claim ownership of the problem, accept her back and let the justice system deal with her. I'm not sure any "welcome party" would be appropriate.

[Heisenberg]

Greta Thunberg was 15 as she spoke and understood life.

Of ourse she knew what she was doing , you can see that in the planned way she left the country, I'd say she was very advanced for her years to begin her 15 year old life as she did ,she investigated it, she read up on it ,disgusued it from her parents , got out of the country as a 15 year old , how many 15 year old have that drive ,capacity, canniness ,not many only the bright determined ones ,most are happy on tic tic ,not this one she wanted to join a bunch of blood thirsty maniacs

Also you:

I know, she was hanging around the rich and wealthy at 15 at Trumps golf resort . I just wonder if she was more willing to engage in the sleazy rich world than we know.

Where were her parents when she was spirited off to Epstein Islands ?

Was she forcibly taken ?

What's your issue with young women, LoM?

[Pedro de la Rosa]

point 3, she was 15 and knew exactly what she was doing, brain washed or not, she wanted to be part of the " new world " that she was promised

brain wasnt fully developed ? ? ? are you saying she did not know what she was doing when she headed to syria ? ? ?

She was 15. The rational part of a teen's brain isn't fully developed and won't be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain's rational part. If you look at all the stupid stuff you did as a teenager, I'm sure there's a lot you wouldn't do now. Or maybe you would.

Brain washed or not . Quite a big difference there, pal.

Also, she's our problem. She isn't a citizen of anywhere else and never has been. She should be tried and put in prison.

[lardy]

Also you:



What's your issue with young women, LoM?

It's an easy decision for LoM. Begum isn't white, therefore she isn't a natural born UK citizen, and so taking the 'fake' citizenship away is fine.

[blue matt]

She was 15. The rational part of a teen's brain isn't fully developed and won't be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain's rational part. If you look at all the stupid stuff you did as a teenager, I'm sure there's a lot you wouldn't do now. Or maybe you would.

we can talk about rational decisions all we like, we can make excuses about brain development, we can talk about doing stupid stuff as a teenager, but it all comes down to " did she know where she was going when she left London " , we all know the answer is yes
now we ask " did she know what Daesh stood for and were all about ", we can only guess yes she did, as it was hardly a secret

now we can look at the stupid things i did as a teenager and would i do them now, Well for a starter, i never joined a religious group who wanted to take over the world and kill all kafir's and to show they were serious they beheaded or burnt alive westerners, maybe i was a sensible 15 year old, i dont know oh and for the record i wouldnt do it now either

do you think if the caliphate was still going strong, she would want to " come back home to have a 2nd chance ", no of course not

[xsnaggle]

Can we have the girl back and **** you off to syria?

Well if you want her back why don't you volunteer to have her and look after her and be responsible for her future actions and statements?

[xsnaggle]

Out of curiosity, if a white British born 15 year old male decided to move to, say, America to join a white terrorist group, would we rescind their British citizenship?

If that white terrorist group carried out the same atrocities as IS did then yes. Why not?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

If that white terrorist group carried out the same atrocities as IS did then yes. Why not?

Absolutely.

A few of my now acquaintances think something similar to a reply by Larry above, that if you're not white, you're not a natural born UK citizen, so that's the difference.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

It's an easy decision for LoM. Begum isn't white, therefore she isn't a natural born UK citizen, and so taking the 'fake' citizenship away is fine.

That's absolutely disgraceful

[Tuerto]

Well if you want her back why don't you volunteer to have her and look after her and be responsible for her future actions and statements?

Snaggs, if i'm going to volunteer to look after anyone, then it has to be you, although i reckon that looking after Begum ad being responsible for what she says would be a whole lot easier than doing the same for you

[CCFCC3PO]

Snaggs, if i'm going to volunteer to look after anyone, then it has to be you, although i reckon that looking after Begum ad being responsible for what she says would be a whole lot easier than doing the same for you

[xsnaggle]

Snaggs, if i'm going to volunteer to look after anyone, then it has to be you, although i reckon that looking after Begum ad being responsible for what she says would be a whole lot easier than doing the same for you

I'm too old to be looked after, just put me out to grass and throw a blanket over me when its cold.

[xsnaggle]

[Baloo]

Well if you want her back why don't you volunteer to have her and look after her and be responsible for her future actions and statements?

Who do you think should take responsibility for her?