Sir Thomas Picton statue to be removed from Cardiff City Hall

[splott parker]

I hardly think that Thatcher was a colossal figure of the 20th. Century. A lot of great figures have their dark sides but history determines whether their existence was for the greater good. The greatest mass murderer, especially of his own people, was Stalin but he is still revered by lots of Russians as the man who defeated the evil Nazis and gave everyone a job. Tell that to the Ukrainian peasants who died in their millions through famine or the even greater millions who ended up in the Gulags. Taken into context Thatcher was just a minor figure in the scheme of things.

Thatcher’s actions affected my life, she was a prominent figure of the 20th century, so I include her as one of the century’s despots.

[Dorcus]

Leave Fred up though

Yes, Fred's different lol

[light up the darkness]

I'm not at all experienced in the military but even I know you need something with a bit more firepower than an umbrella if you're running towards the enemy.

The bloke was a f*g nutcase by all contemporary accounts so I wouldn’t be surprised

I just saw Jon1959 post. Sums it up I guess

[light up the darkness]

Did he though? History is written by the victors.

Agree with you about history being written rewritten and revised by the victors

I don’t have personal knowledge of his exploits but contemporary accounts for example ‘Wellington’ by Barbara Longford And Wellington: The Years of the Sword.
Wellingtons Welsh General: life of Sir Thomas Picton by Robert Harvard
paint his character quite darkly whilst praising his ferocious approach to fighting battles. Seems the type of bloke you’d want on your side rather than playing for the opposition. A bit like Sergio Ramos

[light up the darkness]

SO SO TRUE.
Like Churchill when he sunk the French ships 1200 allies died on those ships.

Churchill also sacrificed the 51st Highland Division after Dunkirk and was the chief architect of the division of the Balkans and the separation of the Middle East to create the state of Israel. The putting down with the help of the Japanese of all people of the Indian army’s revolt in Singapore during WW 1

And so on


He’s got an awful lot to answer for

[pomeroy]

I think it's different with fictional beings but if you want to start that crusade I've got no objections

The trouble is that billions of people the Pope, Martin Luther King, Desmond Tutu, Justin Welsby and Al Sharpton, to name but a few, believe that God ( be he Allah, Zeus, Christ, Wotan, Zoroastrian, et al. ) is real even though he condones and instructs upon slavery in the Bible. You have to be very careful who you refer to as fictional. Even the World’s best stand up comic Trump still intones “so help me God”.

[Elwood Blues]

Thatcher’s actions affected my life, she was a prominent figure of the 20th century, so I include her as one of the century’s despots.

She may have been ruthless but hardly in the class of Hitler, Mussolini and Franco ( add Mao and Stalin to that list as well).

Inaccurate too. I am sorry if she affected your life in a negative way but she was no despot as she did not have absolute power in the way the others above did.

[splott parker]

She may have been ruthless but hardly in the class of Hitler, Mussolini and Franco ( add Mao and Stalin to that list as well).

Inaccurate too. I am sorry if she affected your life in a negative way but she was no despot as she did not have absolute power in the way the others above did.

She acted as though she had absolute power, tyrant of a woman.

[pomeroy]

She acted as though she had absolute power, tyrant of a woman.

Complete and utter nonsense. She was democratically elected unlike some of the mouthpieces that railed against her.

[splott parker]

Complete and utter nonsense. She was democratically elected unlike some of the mouthpieces that railed against her.

Elected yes but do you really think she was a decent woman? She was a disgusting, horrible person who trampled over the working class of this country. Ruined the country, closed major industries, ridiculously high interest rates under her premiership, great if you had thousands or millions in the bank, a massive struggle if you had a mortgage and a few kids. She was evil!!!!!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Complete and utter nonsense. She was democratically elected unlike some of the mouthpieces that railed against her.

Likes thatcher the bitch

Admires churchill

****ing tory

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Elected yes but do you really think she was a decent woman? She was a disgusting, horrible person who trampled over the working class of this country. Ruined the country, closed major industries, ridiculously high interest rates under her premiership, great if you had thousands or millions in the bank, a massive struggle if you had a mortgage and a few kids. She was evil!!!!!

A right evil bitch

Sold off council houses

Sold off gas , water , phones , electricity

All for money

Propped up the failing economy with north sea oil cash

Dreadful woman , perfect for selfish feckers though

[pomeroy]

Likes thatcher the bitch

Admires churchill

****ing tory

I never said I liked Thatcher but I do admire Churchill. I have voted Labour, Tory, Plaid and Green. I base my political preferences on the arguments put before me not on ingrained social prejudice.

[jon1959]

So why not take down all effigies of God? God’s instructions on how to treat slaves are in Exodus for all to read!!
My view is that God has contributed very little of any good to mankind and therefore his many statues, paintings etc. should be summarily dispensed with.Tell that to the happy clappers!!

Are there any statues of God - the Old Testament Beardy Boy?

All the statues/effigies I can think of from the various Christian or Jewish traditions are of saints, Jesus or Mary or biblical kings and prophets like David and Moses.

There have been a lot of paintings of God (Sistine Chapel ceiling, Orthodox icons, alter pieces etc). If you are arguing for those to be covered over with a coat of magnolia emulsion I have to disagree - apart from the Sistine Chapel which is hideous!

[life on mars]

One of the biggest constructions in the World, should be torn down, for what it symbolises towards slavery.

The Colosseum, in Rome

Why not, they tore down the Vetch.

[life on mars]

I never said I liked Thatcher but I do admire Churchill. I have voted Labour, Tory, Plaid and Green. I base my political preferences on the arguments put before me not on ingrained social prejudice.

Your not on your own its okay to admire extraordinary individuals and leaders , all of them have made mistakes and delivered a difference that both benefits or sadly adversely effects others , at times like WW2 and Nazi
we needed strength and hard decisions we go it thank god as its delivered a great country not a perfect one but better than most with some wonderful freedoms .

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I never said I liked Thatcher but I do admire Churchill. I have voted Labour, Tory, Plaid and Green. I base my political preferences on the arguments put before me not on ingrained social prejudice.

Here is an arguement put before you , thatcher was a bitch , churchill was a racist and you are a tory

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Your not on your own its okay to admire extraordinary individuals and leaders , all of them have made mistakes and delivered a difference that both benefits or sadly adversely effects others , at times like WW2 and Nazi
we needed strength and hard decisions we go it thank god as its delivered a great country not a perfect one but better than most with some wonderful freedoms .

You think thatcher was an extraordinary leader ?

And you continually try to make us believe you are a labour voter ?

Feckin get out of here

[Elwood Blues]

Posted in error

[splott parker]

Churchill condoned the murder of not just non British people but also his own countrymen, collateral damage??????? Thatcher destroyed towns, villages, communities through her evil policies, places that have never recovered, her legacy is the sad, drug addled ghettoes with no hope throughout the UK. These are just some of their evil doings and still some people laud them, the history taught in schools requires a rethink.

[pomeroy]

Here is an arguement put before you , thatcher was a bitch , churchill was a racist and you are a tory

There is no point at all in arguing. There are those who see, those who see what they want to see and those who do not see anything at all. Work it out.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

There is no point at all in arguing. There are those who see, those who see what they want to see and those who do not see anything at all. Work it out.

I have worked it out , you admire thatcher , you admire churchill . You are a tory .

[pomeroy]

I have worked it out , you admire thatcher , you admire churchill . You are a tory .

You are dumber than I thought you were.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

You are dumber than I thought you were.

Churchill was a great man , thatcher was to be admired ........but you are not a tory

Ok , I believe you

Carry on , nothing to see here

[pomeroy]

Churchill was a great man , thatcher was to be admired ........but you are not a tory

Ok , I believe you

Carry on , nothing to see here

When I joined this board many years ago, albeit under another user name, there were no preconditions re. political persuasion. I find it disturbing that an “ International “ poster would deride me for being a Tory, even if I was one. It seems that your life post Thatcher has been one dedicated to the enviable pastime of fishing whilst I was running a sweat shop, working 16 hours a day , which eventually enabled me to buy my own stretch of the Usk.