Remember when we were a small club ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I'd say that you're right. By and large, we're old fogeys on here who are, perhaps, out of touch when it comes to the sort of club City are today. We hark back to the twentieth century when we have these discussions about how big a club we are because that's the time when our opinions were formed and, largely speaking, it's the time we know best. However, we tend to forget or ignore the fact that we've had close to twenty years of crowds that have, largely, been 15,000 plus since our promotion in 2003.

For getting on for half a century, I clung to a belief formed in the early seventies that we were a mid twenty thousands club when it came to playing in the top flight - we'd get much bigger crowds than that occasionally when the biggest clubs came here, but our average would be around 25,000. That was why I labelled the Ninian Stand extension "Tan's Folly" and deemed it a waste of money, but I was proved wrong in 18/19 when, as a relegated team, we averaged seven thousand more than that and, in truth, it could have been a fair bit more than that because there were a few matches where our ground was not big enough to satisfy the demand for tickets.

Therefore, could it be true that we don't know our club as well as we think we do? Based on 18/19, I'd say it's not beyond the bounds of possibility for Cardiff City, as, say a modern day Crystal Palace equivalent, to average 40,000 if our ground was big enough.

No , the ground was big enough before the red stand was built

[A Quiet Monkfish]

For memory, the board in the 1960's/70's consisted of Fred Dewey, his brother Viv and possibly George Edwards. It is a matter of conjecture whether the club really wanted promotion during that period. Certainly the team was more than capable (up until the sale of Toshack) and many people have since drawn the conclusion that we didn't want to go up, based purely on that one transaction. It certainly had a major impact on the club and it's only in recent times that we've returned to the comparatively elevated status that we achieved prior to the sale.

As for the QPR game, it was a great match which we won 4-2. I think Tosh scored a hat-trick if memory serves me right. And QPR had Rodney Marsh and Barry Bridges in their team. We really looked the part and promotion seemed a distinct possibility at that stage.

When City went up in 1959/60 Fred Dewey told my Dad [ whom he knew quite well], " now our troubles will start". Whilst the abolition of the max. wage was a year away, a player in the 1st Division was getting significantly more than the £20 per week 'maximum, via other benefits. I'm sure Dewey was of the same view a decade later. Scoular told him he needed 2 players and City would go up, but Dewey wouldn't sanction the deals..

[Moodybluebird]

0
I actually disagree with you slightly Bob, which is a rarity. I think we've got the potential for a lot of casual fans but if we established ourselves in the Premier League I think some of the novelty would wear off after a few seasons. 33000 seems about right (we could sell a lot more for the big games but we'd get a lot less for the smaller ones in my opinion)

I think you're right about the novelty issue Delmbox. Even on this board there is a sizeable number of contributors who, having seen their club reach the promised land on two occasions are now rather apathetic about the PL. Yes it is a bad experience to keep getting tanked week in week out but there is only one way for the club to go if they have no ambition and that is backwards. We saw it in the 70's and by the 90's the club was in free fall.

Personally I don't think the city itself has a great hunger for a sustained period playing in the PL. It has never been nor will ever be a religion in the way that it is on Tyneside or at Anfield for instance but I would like to believe that enough youngsters have been bitten by the City bug for us to maintain good attendance figures for the foreseeable future.

[the other bob wilson]

No , the ground was big enough before the red stand was built

It clearly wasn't, because we averaged more than the old capacity in 18/19.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

It clearly wasn't, because we averaged more than the old capacity in 18/19.

its no good building a ground of 32000 seats if the only time you ever fill it is when we are playing the big teams

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I think you're right about the novelty issue Delmbox. Even on this board there is a sizeable number of contributors who, having seen their club reach the promised land on two occasions are now rather apathetic about the PL. Yes it is a bad experience to keep getting tanked week in week out but there is only one way for the club to go if they have no ambition and that is backwards. We saw it in the 70's and by the 90's the club was in free fall.

Personally I don't think the city itself has a great hunger for a sustained period playing in the PL. It has never been nor will ever be a religion in the way that it is on Tyneside or at Anfield for instance but I would like to believe that enough youngsters have been bitten by the City bug for us to maintain good attendance figures for the foreseeable future.

football cities

Glasgow

Newcastle

Sunderland

Leeds

Liverpool

Manchester

Birmingham

Derby

Nottingham

Portsmouth

Sheffield

Wolverhampton


We could get bigger crowds with sustained success but that means spending more time in the top flight than we have recently

[the other bob wilson]

its no good building a ground of 32000 seats if the only time you ever fill it is when we are playing the big teams

Our smallest crowd in the Premier League in 18/19, against Brighton, was a couple of thousand more than the previous capacity.

[the other bob wilson]

I’m not sure about the 40000 Bob butt. If the stadium held 60000 maybe the 60000 who would watch Man United and Liverpool would compensate for the 30000 who would watch Palace, Leicester etc.

I’m right in thinking City only sold the ground out on the big matches? Tickets were easily available for the likes of West Ham, Southampton, Palace etc.

Here's a rundown of our 18/19 season which includes attendance figures and it shows we were playing in front of virtual full houses against two of the teams you mention.

Our gates would only need to go up by 25% on 18/19 levels to hit 40,000 - all we've done as a Premier League club is fight relegation with little chance of seeing big six teams beaten at Cardiff City, if we could become a Palace type team that stayed that little bit above the bottom club and got a result or two against the bigger teams a season, I don't think that 25% increase is too far fetched.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Our smallest crowd in the Premier League in 18/19, against Brighton, was a couple of thousand more than the previous capacity.

So we lock fans out , we can't be having ideas of extending the capacity of the ground if we only ever fill it out in the top flight

We need to be getting near sell outs every other week in the championship before we build any more

Our support base is so fickle that after 3 years in the top flight we would start seeing empty seats , Everton , a big club by our standards have a stadium of 38000 and often get gates of 33

[Packerman]

Our smallest crowd in the Premier League in 18/19, against Brighton, was a couple of thousand more than the previous capacity.

Game set and match i'd say sludge leathered again

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Here's a rundown of our 18/19 season which includes attendance figures and it shows we were playing in front of virtual full houses against two of the teams you mention.

Our gates would only need to go up by 25% on 18/19 levels to hit 40,000 - all we've done as a Premier League club is fight relegation with little chance of seeing big six teams beaten at Cardiff City, if we could become a Palace type team that stayed that little bit above the bottom club and got a result or two against the bigger teams a season, I don't think that 25% increase is too far fetched.

we don't need a bigger ground than Everton bob

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Game set and match i'd say sludge leathered again

so we filled the ground for one season ?

And we need a bigger ground ?

I am afraid thats complete nonsense

Cardiff city fans soon get bored

When we were promoted to the championship under Lonnie we were taking thousands away

A few years later we had the lowest away support in the league

Fecking daydream believers

[Jordi Culé]

so we filled the ground for one season ?

And we need a bigger ground ?

I am afraid thats complete nonsense

Cardiff city fans soon get bored

When we were promoted to the championship under Lonnie we were taking thousands away

A few years later we had the lowest away support in the league

Fecking daydream believers

Had all these fans that have gone missing now watching Man United?

Asking for a friend.

[J R Hartley]

Game set and match i'd say sludge leathered again

It’s becoming a common theme.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Had all these fans that have gone missing now watching Man United?

Asking for a friend.

One of our top lads , as they call them , is a man united fan

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

It’s becoming a common theme.

When did you start supporting us again ?

25 ?

And I don't mean 1925

[Jordi Culé]

One of our top lads , as they call them , is a man united fan

Uh?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Uh?

You asked if these fans gone missing are watching man united

Yes , one of the soul crew warriors for example

Like so many cardiff city were never his first team , hes naffed off

I remember him telling me he didn't care about the team turning red if it meant we went to the premier league so he could watch united

[goats]

You asked if these fans gone missing are watching man united

Yes , one of the soul crew warriors for example

Like so many cardiff city were never his first team , hes naffed off

I remember him telling me he didn't care about the team turning red if it meant we went to the premier league so he could watch united

Your not talking about gwyn are you? Man Utd?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Your not talking about gwyn are you? Man Utd?

No

Hes a cardiff fan and only a cardiff fan as far as I know and has no convictions for football related disorder

[Jordi Culé]

You asked if these fans gone missing are watching man united

Yes , one of the soul crew warriors for example

Like so many cardiff city were never his first team , hes naffed off

I remember him telling me he didn't care about the team turning red if it meant we went to the premier league so he could watch united

Well that’s one accounted for.

What about the others?

In fairness to the lad you’re on about there was a fair few City supporters who didn’t give a toss about City turning red, so he wasn’t alone there.

[City123]

Well we were a small club for the 17 years we were in the lower leagues and getting crowds of less than 2000

Bradford City get far higher crowds than we did in the lower leagues

We've never had a seasonal average below 2,000 and only averaged below 3,000 once. Over our lifespan as a club our average attendance is 5,000 higher than Bradford's. You're obsessed with our "size" as a club and seem determined to make us out as this tiny backwater where nobody watches the club, but wax lyrical about clubs who got fewer fans. We're a solid second tier club with the potential to go on to be a top flight club, as evidenced by our attendances in the PL

[the other bob wilson]

so we filled the ground for one season ?

And we need a bigger ground ?

I am afraid thats complete nonsense

Cardiff city fans soon get bored

When we were promoted to the championship under Lonnie we were taking thousands away

A few years later we had the lowest away support in the league

Fecking daydream believers

Is anyone saying we should be building new stands now? I don't think they are. I'm certainly not, what I'm saying is that having averaged over 31,000 during a relegation season, is it so ridiculous to think that gates could increase by another 25% if we were to become a Crystal Palace, Burnley type club?

[Jordi Culé]

Is anyone saying we should be building new stands now? I don't think they are. I'm certainly not, what I'm saying is that having averaged over 31,000 during a relegation season, is it so ridiculous to think that gates could increase by another 25% if we were to become a Crystal Palace, Burnley type club?

I think the attendances would actually stagnate or decrease if City had a sustained period in the Premier league.

I've got no actual evidence to support that mind.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Well that’s one accounted for.

What about the others?

In fairness to the lad you’re on about there was a fair few City supporters who didn’t give a toss about City turning red, so he wasn’t alone there.

We had thousands of people in south wales who bought season tickets for cardiff city who wanted to watch premiership football loads of these were Liverpool and man united fans with no long term interest in cardiff city