COVID - Something has to change

[tforturton]

We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.

[Eric Cartman]

We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.

What metric would you say proves that 'Sweden had it right all along'?

[2b2bdoo]

if people were just more accountable for their actions. everyone says they do this and that but the basics are wash your hands and keep two meters apart and people just cant manage it.

[Bluebina]

if people were just more accountable for their actions. everyone says they do this and that but the basics are wash your hands and keep two meters apart and people just cant manage it.

We have a lot of thicko's mate, I don't know whats happened over the last twenty years but the number of really thick people seems to have multiplied quicker than covid 19?

[celticknight]

It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

Sweden being held up as the poster child for "Herd Immunity" by the right wing media with it's 'get back to work, plebs!" agenda really isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Aside from the fact it's geographic and social make-up is radically different to the the UK to the point they're not comparable, you also have factors like lack of testing (they test in a week what the UK does in a day), they have the most deaths of the Scandinavian countries and Swedes are probably more likely to social distance than the "no mask" idiots and pissheads in the pubs over here.

[NYCBlue]

Sweden being held up as the poster child for "Herd Immunity" by the right wing media with it's 'get back to work, plebs!" agenda really isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Aside from the fact it's geographic and social make-up is radically different to the the UK to the point they're not comparable, you also have factors like lack of testing (they test in a week what the UK does in a day), they have the most deaths of the Scandinavian countries and Swedes are probably more likely to social distance than the "no mask" idiots and pissheads in the pubs over here.

Quite. Added to that, Sweden is twice the size of the UK with about 15% of its population. Its three biggest cities combined population is less than that of Manchester. It also has a better standard of living. With those advantages in mind, I'd say the herd immunity experiment has been a failure. To try it in the UK would be disastrous. If the UK goverment is worried about a new spike, the country should go back into full lockdown.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Quite. Added to that, Sweden is twice the size of the UK with about 15% of its population. Its three biggest cities combined population is less than that of Manchester. It also has a better standard of living. With those advantages in mind, I'd say the herd immunity experiment has been a failure. To try it in the UK would be disastrous. If the UK goverment is worried about a new spike, the country should go back into full lockdown.

Absolutely. Sweden has been far from the free-for-all that it seems to have been portrayed over here.

[Bluebina]

Quite. Added to that, Sweden is twice the size of the UK with about 15% of its population. Its three biggest cities combined population is less than that of Manchester. It also has a better standard of living. With those advantages in mind, I'd say the herd immunity experiment has been a failure. To try it in the UK would be disastrous. If the UK goverment is worried about a new spike, the country should go back into full lockdown.

I didn't read this post before replying, but spot on!

[Dorcus]

We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.

I agree, local lockdowns are neither easy to understand not effective enough. As shown last time unfortunately it's only a national lockdown which will work properly.

[Rjk]

I agree, local lockdowns are neither easy to understand not effective enough. As shown last time unfortunately it's only a national lockdown which will work properly.

they would be a lot more effective if we had a workable test and trace capability by now

[Garth Blue]

I agree, local lockdowns are neither easy to understand not effective enough. As shown last time unfortunately it's only a national lockdown which will work properly.

But it didn't work last time. That's why we are where we are. You cannot eliminate the virus and have any sort of normality. We have to learn to live with it and living with will be easier when we have a vaccine. But we'll still have to live with it. Another full lock down would be disastrous in so many ways.

[goats]

But it didn't work last time. That's why we are where we are. You cannot eliminate the virus and have any sort of normality. We have to learn to live with it and living with will be easier when we have a vaccine. But we'll still have to live with it. Another full lock down would be disastrous in so many ways.

I agree....so almost 50 in 100,000 people have got it in Cardiff, so less than 200 people in the whole city?

[Vindec]

But it didn't work last time. That's why we are where we are. You cannot eliminate the virus and have any sort of normality. We have to learn to live with it and living with will be easier when we have a vaccine. But we'll still have to live with it. Another full lock down would be disastrous in so many ways.

The lockdown did work last time with infection rated down to reasonable levels. It is only when the government relaxed the restrictions did the infection rate rise.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

The lockdown did work last time with infection rated down to reasonable levels. It is only when the government relaxed the restrictions did the infection rate rise.

Even then, only partially. The more restrictions were relaxed, the more infections increased. That was hardly rocket science. Of course we're now in a position where people are getting used to some sort of return to "normality" and I reckon that if we had a full lockdown again many would simply ignore it completely. Getting the rates down to the lows we saw a month or two ago are going to be impossible, it's now all about making sure the under stress NHS isn't swamped. We've seen that deaths from other conditions have risen as treatment for Covid has been needed.

What the answer is I truly don't know. People need jobs, the economy needs ticking over, but the NHS still needs protecting and the thought of lots of people dying from this in a huge second wave makes me shudder.

[Garth Blue]

The lockdown did work last time with infection rated down to reasonable levels. It is only when the government relaxed the restrictions did the infection rate rise.

But you can't stay permanently in lockdown,

[lardy]

But it didn't work last time. That's why we are where we are. You cannot eliminate the virus and have any sort of normality. We have to learn to live with it and living with will be easier when we have a vaccine. But we'll still have to live with it. Another full lock down would be disastrous in so many ways.

It did work last time, but the time wasn't spent properly. The lockdown wasn't to eliminate the virus, it was to allow time to live with it until a vaccine - get tracing set up, roll out mass testing, educate the public, etc. None of it happened.

[goats]

It did work last time, but the time wasn't spent properly. The lockdown wasn't to eliminate the virus, it was to allow time to live with it until a vaccine - get tracing set up, roll out mass testing, educate the public, etc. None of it happened.

Christ lardy you are the merchant of doom. We have a tracing system, we have been mass testing and everyone is far far more aware than there were in March, you couldn’t even buy a mask or hand gel back then and social distancing didn’t exist. I haven’t been in anyone’s house since March, that’s not normal.

[lardy]

Christ lardy you are the merchant of doom. We have a tracing system, we have been mass testing and everyone is far far more aware than there were in March, you couldn’t even buy a mask or hand gel back then and social distancing didn’t exist. I haven’t been in anyone’s house since March, that’s not normal.

Happy clapping is it?

[Harry Paget Flashman]

We have a tracing system - which doesn't work.

we have been mass testing - too late and not to the levels we should have been

.

[lardy]

Christ lardy you are the merchant of doom. We have a tracing system, we have been mass testing and everyone is far far more aware than there were in March, you couldn’t even buy a mask or hand gel back then and social distancing didn’t exist. I haven’t been in anyone’s house since March, that’s not normal.

Merchant of doom, back again. Apparently the app doesn't recognise NHS tests, but I'm sure hardly anyone goes to NHS places.

Ignore me and keep happy clapping!

[dml1954]

It did work last time, but the time wasn't spent properly. The lockdown wasn't to eliminate the virus, it was to allow time to live with it until a vaccine - get tracing set up, roll out mass testing, educate the public, etc. None of it happened.

Tracing system has been set up, mass testing is occurring, the public has been educated. The fact is that large sections of the population are choosing to ignore the advice, trying to get tested when they don't have any symptoms and refusing to give correct contact details.

[lardy]

Tracing system has been set up, mass testing is occurring, the public has been educated. The fact is that large sections of the population are choosing to ignore the advice, trying to get tested when they don't have any symptoms and refusing to give correct contact details.

Ok, I stand corrected. Things are going really well, and anything that isn't is the fault of ordinary people.

[Vindec]

Tracing system has been set up, mass testing is occurring, the public has been educated. The fact is that large sections of the population are choosing to ignore the advice, trying to get tested when they don't have any symptoms and refusing to give correct contact details.

Of those contacted to isolate by test and trace only 11% comply meaning 89% don't.

[islandblue]

We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.

Good post. As you say this cycle of lockdown/easing/lockdown is just kicking the can down the road. God help us when furlough ends this month as we could well have millions on the dole. If the vaccine doesn't work herd immumity is the only option to get rid of the virus. I realise this could overwhelm the NHS but if our economy collapses there wouldn't be any NHS anyway.......very very grim times

[blue matt]

The lockdown / easing / lockdown cycle must be just designed to by us time till a vaccine comes along