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Thread: This passing out from the back malarkey

  1. #1

    This passing out from the back malarkey

    I'm not sure who made it popular in this country (was it Pep?) but I've yet to see a team look comfortable doing it.

    Most sides have learnt to quickly close down those defenders and goalkeepers who think they're Franz Beckenbauer, with the ball frequently being lost in dangerous areas. No matter how threatened some teams are, they refuse to launch it to safety.

    Whether this a Pep-inspired fad I don't know but with so much at stake I will be surprised if this tactic is not ditched by many teams in the near future.

  2. #2

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    the alternative is warnockball

  3. #3

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Moodybluebird View Post
    I'm not sure who made it popular in this country (was it Pep?) but I've yet to see a team look comfortable doing it.

    Most sides have learnt to quickly close down those defenders and goalkeepers who think they're Franz Beckenbauer, with the ball frequently being lost in dangerous areas. No matter how threatened some teams are, they refuse to launch it to safety.

    Whether this a Pep-inspired fad I don't know but with so much at stake I will be surprised if this tactic is not ditched by many teams in the near future.
    Do you watch football at all?

  4. #4

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    It beats booting it upfield as what is essentially a 50/50 ball. Liverpool played out from the back in the 80s. Both they and Man City seemed to have done OK out of it.

  5. #5

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    seems to be a common trend on here where the football world has moved on and yet some fans haven't

    move with the times moody even Leeds Utd look like Barcelona these days !!

    they got a manager who plays the modern way not sure we will ever see a passing and moving team at high speed anytime soon with what we got now

  6. #6

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by MOZZER2 View Post
    seems to be a common trend on here where the football world has moved on and yet some fans haven't

    move with the times moody even Leeds Utd look like Barcelona these days !!

    they got a manager who plays the modern way not sure we will ever see a passing and moving team at high speed anytime soon with what we got now

    Believe me Mozzer, I'm not an advocate of hoofball or launching the ball into Row Z at every opportunity. However, when all your players are being closed down at a rapid rate of knots and any option you take will likely put your team in trouble, it seems an unnecessary risk to take ALL the time. Be more prudent when you have been forced into a tight corner is what I'm saying.

  7. #7

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Llandaff Blue View Post
    Do you watch football at all?
    Probably a lot more and for a lot longer than you matey.

    Don't get me wrong. As a tactic and with the right players, it can be an effective way to retain possession as opposed to a hopeful punt upfield. However, there are times when to doggedly pursue this tactic is taking too much of a risk and will invariably mean that the ball is lost in a very dangerous area.

    You also need to consider the state of the game. If you're winning by a single goal with 10 minutes to play, do you still advocate one-twos with your goalkeeper in and around the six yard box ? I think not and if you were down the City you like most of the fans would be screaming for the defender to clear it away from the danger area.

  8. #8

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Moodybluebird View Post
    Probably a lot more and for a lot longer than you matey.

    Don't get me wrong. As a tactic and with the right players, it can be an effective way to retain possession as opposed to a hopeful punt upfield. However, there are times when to doggedly pursue this tactic is taking too much of a risk and will invariably mean that the ball is lost in a very dangerous area.

    You also need to consider the state of the game. If you're winning by a single goal with 10 minutes to play, do you still advocate one-twos with your goalkeeper in and around the six yard box ? I think not and if you were down the City you like most of the fans would be screaming for the defender to clear it away from the danger area.
    I seriously doubt that first sentence, if you can't think of any teams that do it well then you don't pay much attention to what you're watching. Spanish and Dutch teams have been doing it for over a decade now, I remember Napoli under Sarri being great at it too. Only since Pep's arrival in England have we seen more English teams move toward it

    Off the top of my head, Man City, Brighton, Leeds, Arsenal (under Arteta) play out from the back and are comfortable doing it.

    It isn't intended to retain possession, it's used to create a numerical advantage further up the pitch. If the opposition commit 3/4 attacking players to press and the side in possession are comfortable with the ball, they can play through the press and launch a quick attack.

    Your last paragraph is daft, no team plays one-twos with their keeper in the final 10 minutes. Playing out is obviously situational and if I saw our players attempt it I would definitely encourage it, though I would be worried giving neither our defenders or midfielders are good enough on the ball to make it work.

  9. #9

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Moodybluebird View Post
    Probably a lot more and for a lot longer than you matey.

    Don't get me wrong. As a tactic and with the right players, it can be an effective way to retain possession as opposed to a hopeful punt upfield. However, there are times when to doggedly pursue this tactic is taking too much of a risk and will invariably mean that the ball is lost in a very dangerous area.

    You also need to consider the state of the game. If you're winning by a single goal with 10 minutes to play, do you still advocate one-twos with your goalkeeper in and around the six yard box ? I think not and if you were down the City you like most of the fans would be screaming for the defender to clear it away from the danger area.
    If we're ahead with 10 minutes to go I'd sooner us keep possession than lump it upfield and give it away. Those tactics were thought of as poor in the 90s

  10. #10

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    If we're ahead with 10 minutes to go I'd sooner us keep possession than lump it upfield and give it away. Those tactics were thought of as poor in the 90s
    I don't have a problem with retaining possession. It's when it becomes obvious that some players and goalkeepers in particular do not have the movement, skill or football nous to extricate themselves from difficult situations that I worry. They haven't all been coached by Sarri or Pep !

  11. #11

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by MOZZER2 View Post
    the alternative is warnockball
    It isn't.

  12. #12

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Llandaff Blue View Post
    I seriously doubt that first sentence, if you can't think of any teams that do it well then you don't pay much attention to what you're watching. Spanish and Dutch teams have been doing it for over a decade now, I remember Napoli under Sarri being great at it too. Only since Pep's arrival in England have we seen more English teams move toward it

    Off the top of my head, Man City, Brighton, Leeds, Arsenal (under Arteta) play out from the back and are comfortable doing it.

    It isn't intended to retain possession, it's used to create a numerical advantage further up the pitch. If the opposition commit 3/4 attacking players to press and the side in possession are comfortable with the ball, they can play through the press and launch a quick attack.

    Your last paragraph is daft, no team plays one-twos with their keeper in the final 10 minutes. Playing out is obviously situational and if I saw our players attempt it I would definitely encourage it, though I would be worried giving neither our defenders or midfielders are good enough on the ball to make it work.
    Bravo that man, you understand the point of it. Like you said, it's to draw teams out and leave space in the midfield, once a team has got beyond the midfield then it's game on!

  13. #13

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Moodybluebird View Post
    I don't have a problem with retaining possession. It's when it becomes obvious that some players and goalkeepers in particular do not have the movement, skill or football nous to extricate themselves from difficult situations that I worry. They haven't all been coached by Sarri or Pep !
    Fair comment. Really need players who are comfortable on the ball, really good movement and no dickheads taking that extra touch. We couldn't play like that.

  14. #14

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Fair comment. Really need players who are comfortable on the ball, really good movement and no dickheads taking that extra touch. We couldn't play like that.
    Too true we couldn't !

    Interestingly, teams have only recently started to press in numbers as they realise that the opposition are adopting a high risk strategy from which they could also benefit.

    Astute coaches are always likely to introduce ground breaking tactics but, as games are now being analysed in such depth, it doesn't take long for these tactics to be counteracted.

  15. #15

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    I see even Wolves are hacking it out of defence the last ten minutes......(!)....it CAN be effective....

  16. #16

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Moodybluebird View Post
    Too true we couldn't !

    Interestingly, teams have only recently started to press in numbers as they realise that the opposition are adopting a high risk strategy from which they could also benefit.

    Astute coaches are always likely to introduce ground breaking tactics but, as games are now being analysed in such depth, it doesn't take long for these tactics to be counteracted.
    I like Argentinian football, their general style is a kind of mix between possession based and thought out long balls, it's calculated. Emphasis on physicality as well as quick play i the final third, and they love a creative midfielder who can make a pass beyond the opposition. Playing out from the back and drawing the opposition is brilliant to watch, it takes some doing and coaching, loads of hard work, fitness levels, pace, movement and ability. I like it, although there is more than one way to play the game. I think that some people jump on it and see themselves as 'Peps Children' ask them to explain what's going on and they probably wouldn't be able to answer you!

  17. #17

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Llandaff Blue View Post
    I seriously doubt that first sentence, if you can't think of any teams that do it well then you don't pay much attention to what you're watching. Spanish and Dutch teams have been doing it for over a decade now, I remember Napoli under Sarri being great at it too. Only since Pep's arrival in England have we seen more English teams move toward it

    Off the top of my head, Man City, BRIGHTON , Leeds, Arsenal (under Arteta) play out from the back and are comfortable doing it.

    It isn't intended to retain possession, it's used to create a numerical advantage further up the pitch. If the opposition commit 3/4 attacking players to press and the side in possession are comfortable with the ball, they can play through the press and launch a quick attack.

    Your last paragraph is daft, no team plays one-twos with their keeper in the final 10 minutes. Playing out is obviously situational and if I saw our players attempt it I would definitely encourage it, though I would be worried giving neither our defenders or midfielders are good enough on the ball to make it work.

    They pass it 3 times, then the broken nosed centre halfs, LUMP-IT

  18. #18

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    I like Argentinian football, their general style is a kind of mix between possession based and thought out long balls, it's calculated. Emphasis on physicality as well as quick play i the final third, and they love a creative midfielder who can make a pass beyond the opposition. Playing out from the back and drawing the opposition is brilliant to watch, it takes some doing and coaching, loads of hard work, fitness levels, pace, movement and ability. I like it, although there is more than one way to play the game. I think that some people jump on it and see themselves as 'Peps Children' ask them to explain what's going on and they probably wouldn't be able to answer you!
    A very good analysis 👍

    Do you think the Argentinians would notice if one of their creative midfielders went missing ?!!

  19. #19

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Moodybluebird View Post
    A very good analysis ��

    Do you think the Argentinians would notice if one of their creative midfielders went missing ?!!
    Depends which one Could be a market worth looking at though.

  20. #20

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Manure just tried it

  21. #21

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUETIT View Post
    Manure just tried it
    Yes, I've just seen it on the BBC Sports website. I'm not one to gloat but........ok just a little bit lol

  22. #22

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    it has trickled down to grassroots, Ive watched 3 games this weekend ( one i coached and we get them to play a short ball to the CB or LW/RW, but that is due to our GK having a rather poor Goal Kick, kicking from the hands is great though )
    i then watched my local non-league B team play, then watched the ladies team play yesterday

    all 3 played a short goal Kick 90% of the time

  23. #23

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Moodybluebird View Post
    I'm not sure who made it popular in this country (was it Pep?) but I've yet to see a team look comfortable doing it.

    Most sides have learnt to quickly close down those defenders and goalkeepers who think they're Franz Beckenbauer, with the ball frequently being lost in dangerous areas. No matter how threatened some teams are, they refuse to launch it to safety.

    Whether this a Pep-inspired fad I don't know but with so much at stake I will be surprised if this tactic is not ditched by many teams in the near future.
    Football is full of fads - and clubs who follow them. How many times do you see a PL side take a short corner, get closed down, pass back to another player, then back to a defender and even the keeper. Or take a free kick on the half way line and pass it back - and across - and back, and then ends up back with the keeper. Sides like Sheff. Utd and Leeds and many others have seen through 'the Emperors new Clothes' fashion of endless tapping the ball nowhere. It is[and was] as boring as sh*t as well, despite what the so-called pundits say..

  24. #24
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    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    It's based on analytics, and it's only a relatively small group of managers (and players) who fully understand the system, and have the right support teams in place. The tactics change from game to game depending on the perceived weaknesses of the opposition players. Of course personal errors can be costly, so the top teams are constantly doing drills on the training pitch to minimise the risk.

  25. #25

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    It's based on ANALlytics, and it's only a relatively small group of managers (and players) who fully understand the system, and have the right support teams in place. The tactics change from game to game depending on the perceived weaknesses of the opposition players. Of course personal errors can be costly, so the top teams are constantly doing drills on the training pitch to minimise the risk.

    It is a bit shite.

  26. #26

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    Football is full of fads - and clubs who follow them. How many times do you see a PL side take a short corner, get closed down, pass back to another player, then back to a defender and even the keeper. Or take a free kick on the half way line and pass it back - and across - and back, and then ends up back with the keeper. Sides like Sheff. Utd and Leeds and many others have seen through 'the Emperors new Clothes' fashion of endless tapping the ball nowhere. It is[and was] as boring as sh*t as well, despite what the so-called pundits say..
    It's a bit like the game rock, paper, scissors. No matter which one you choose, or from a football perspective which playing system you operate, there is always an option that ultimately can be used to nullify the opposition.

    It may take time to work out the best way to counteract your opponent's style of play but with the right players who are fully drilled and confident it can be done.

    Going back to my original thread, more and more teams are pressing in numbers and it is becoming increasingly difficult to successfully navigate a way out of defence and catch your opponents undermanned further up the pitch. We are not talking about magicians like Iniesta and Xavi, who looked like they had the ball glued their feet. We are talking about the likes of Maguire, Stones and their ilk who are I'll prepared to adopt this high risk strategy.

    So many goals nowadays seem to be conceded this way in high profile matches, I wouldn't be surprised if teams start to re-evaluate its worth or at least use it more sparingly.

  27. #27

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Moodybluebird View Post
    Believe me Mozzer, I'm not an advocate of hoofball or launching the ball into Row Z at every opportunity. However, when all your players are being closed down at a rapid rate of knots and any option you take will likely put your team in trouble, it seems an unnecessary risk to take ALL the time. Be more prudent when you have been forced into a tight corner is what I'm saying.
    Villa showed exactly how to play against it yesterday, Leicester have done the same in some games.

  28. #28

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUETIT View Post
    It is a bit shite.
    It's not shit, far from it. I think it just depends on how you like to view football. I suspect you enjoy the cut and thrust style, fair enough in my book, I don't think that any team will prosper playing that way these days, although in a crude kind of way it can be enjoyable to watch.

  29. #29

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    It's not shit, far from it. I think it just depends on how you like to view football. I suspect you enjoy the cut and thrust style, fair enough in my book, I don't think that any team will prosper playing that way these days, although in a crude kind of way it can be enjoyable to watch.

    Whoooooooooooooosh

  30. #30

    Re: This passing out from the back malarkey

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUETIT View Post
    It is a bit shite.
    He's talking out of his arse.

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