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Thread: Political post.. @Yescymru

  1. #1

    Political post.. @Yescymru

    Just seeing what appetite there is on this board for moving towards full independence.

    I think the ineptness of the Tories,

  2. #2

    Political post.. @Yescymru

    Just seeing what appetite there is on this board for moving towards full independence.

    I think the ineptness of the Tories, the arogance & corruption of Westminster and the London-centric / English biased media (including the left-wing media), has made it easier to believe we would be better off on our own.

    I'm under no illusions that it will be difficult and we have a long way to go, but has anyone else shifted towards independence recently?

  3. #3

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Funniest post ever. You have also started another post with the same subject that was even more ill conceived.

  4. #4

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    I'd seriously consider it.

  5. #5

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I'd seriously consider it.
    Same here. I've thought the same since Brexit and I realised that Wales has such little power in Westminster, we're partly governed by people who know little about the country.

  6. #6

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    Funniest post ever. You have also started another post with the same subject that was even more ill conceived.
    Did I?

    Lol, well there you go. Too busy.

    However, I have seen more and more social media movement recently and I wondered if people are changing their mind. That's all.

  7. #7

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
    Just seeing what appetite there is on this board for moving towards full independence.

    I think the ineptness of the Tories, the arogance & corruption of Westminster and the London-centric / English biased media (including the left-wing media), has made it easier to believe we would be better off on our own.

    I'm under no illusions that it will be difficult and we have a long way to go, but has anyone else shifted towards independence recently?
    Have always wanted it and always will.

  8. #8

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    1. 0.3% of the Welsh population are members of YesCymru
    2. After Northern Ireland, Wales receives the most per capita under the Barnett settlement
    3. Wales has the best representation of MPs per capita of all the 4 home nations

    Wales doesn't do too bad being part of the union.

  9. #9

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Would love to be proved wrong but I just can't see how Wales can stand on its own financially as an independent nation.
    One thing's for sure though the Tories won't come close to matching the level of regional EU funding that's been given to Wales over the years so perhaps it's better to be dirt poor and standing on our feet than dirt poor and on our knees ?

  10. #10

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    I fully support it. Similar size countries thrive, why can’t we?

  11. #11

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    2. After Northern Ireland, Wales receives the most per capita under the Barnett settlement
    Doesn't that also mean that after Scotland Wales receives the least per capita ?

  12. #12

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by caerkid View Post
    Doesn't that also mean that after Scotland Wales receives the least per capita ?
    what about England?

  13. #13

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Parry View Post
    I fully support it. Similar size countries thrive, why can’t we?
    are these similar sized countries economies so intertwined with a G8 nation that its impossible to differentiate one from the other?

  14. #14

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
    Did I?

    Lol, well there you go. Too busy.

    However, I have seen more and more social media movement recently and I wondered if people are changing their mind. That's all.
    Sorry. Bit of an overreaction on my part. But economically Wales couldn't possibly support itself. There is little industry and a lot of social deprivation requiring support from the State. And those who pay tax will probably have to pay double to support the rest and, if businesses are taxed higher than England, they will simply leave. Even when Labour has been in power nationally Wales has been ignored and their voters taken for granted. While a Wales only government would have power they wouldn't have the cash to do very much. Wales does not even have a currency so in the unlikely event permission is given for the pound to be used, the UK government would have to control spending. Wales could never be wholly independent ever.

  15. #15

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
    Just seeing what appetite there is on this board for moving towards full independence.

    I think the ineptness of the Tories, the arogance & corruption of Westminster and the London-centric / English biased media (including the left-wing media), has made it easier to believe we would be better off on our own.

    I'm under no illusions that it will be difficult and we have a long way to go, but has anyone else shifted towards independence recently?
    No

  16. #16

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    No.
    Drakeford and his cronies couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery.
    Topical ironic.

  17. #17

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Yes.
    Westminster the political equivalent of Liverpool and Man United.

  18. #18

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    I feel like I'm closer to voting for Welsh independence than I've ever been in my life, but, if there was a vote on it today, I would still be against it on balance - the thought of a long spell under the rule of a Government as inept as Johnson's is proving to be could well make me change my opinion pretty soon mind.

  19. #19
    International City123's Avatar
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    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Card carrying member

  20. #20

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    Sorry. Bit of an overreaction on my part. But economically Wales couldn't possibly support itself. There is little industry and a lot of social deprivation requiring support from the State. And those who pay tax will probably have to pay double to support the rest and, if businesses are taxed higher than England, they will simply leave. Even when Labour has been in power nationally Wales has been ignored and their voters taken for granted. While a Wales only government would have power they wouldn't have the cash to do very much. Wales does not even have a currency so in the unlikely event permission is given for the pound to be used, the UK government would have to control spending. Wales could never be wholly independent ever.

    To this I would add the amount of European money that was meant for Wales but which we never saw a penny of decided by both Labour and Tory governments. Wales cannot trust either of them
    Wales may have some chance of existing if it could remain n the European Union but it could never prosper because as noted it isn’t economically viable and n my opinion Wales does not possess enough intelligent people in politics who are clever enough to manage such a transition successfully.

  21. #21
    International City123's Avatar
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    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Card carrying member

  22. #22

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    I see mostly downsides, well probably only downsides. I'd be one of the first to flee over the border if the Assembly ever had full control.

  23. #23

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    Sorry. Bit of an overreaction on my part. But economically Wales couldn't possibly support itself. There is little industry and a lot of social deprivation requiring support from the State. And those who pay tax will probably have to pay double to support the rest and, if businesses are taxed higher than England, they will simply leave. Even when Labour has been in power nationally Wales has been ignored and their voters taken for granted. While a Wales only government would have power they wouldn't have the cash to do very much. Wales does not even have a currency so in the unlikely event permission is given for the pound to be used, the UK government would have to control spending. Wales could never be wholly independent ever.
    They are valid arguments and if Welsh independence is ever to be a reality will need to be addressed, if they can.

    The intention of my post wasn't to try and convert anyone, just to see what people thought.

  24. #24
    International City123's Avatar
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    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    1. 0.3% of the Welsh population are members of YesCymru
    2. After Northern Ireland, Wales receives the most per capita under the Barnett settlement
    3. Wales has the best representation of MPs per capita of all the 4 home nations

    Wales doesn't do too bad being part of the union.
    That's a pretty decent membership for a group like Yes Cymru, considering the low levels of political participation in the UK. For instance only about 0.2% of the population are members of the Conservative Party so to have 0.3% for a relatively new group about a traditionally fringe movement is pretty good going

  25. #25

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    1. 0.3% of the Welsh population are members of YesCymru
    2. After Northern Ireland, Wales receives the most per capita under the Barnett settlement
    3. Wales has the best representation of MPs per capita of all the 4 home nations

    Wales doesn't do too bad being part of the union.
    So if there was a vote in the house that all Welsh MPs wanted but English MPs didn't, who would win and would you be happy with this?

  26. #26

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    It's a NO from me, a Welsh speaker, especially while the present bunch of no marks are down The Bay.
    Have elections with a better class of politician and I may change my mind, only might because I think we'd be pushing it to be financially better off alone as I think Scotland would too.

  27. #27

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    I have always been totally against it. Most elections I cant even be bothered to vote.( I do make the effort for the General Election) I dont think ive ever voted in the Welsh Assembly elections. I would have turned up to vote against Welsh Independence and didnt want the assembly.

    However Im like Bob. This useless government and the fact working class areas in England put them in has made me rethink.

    Id go further id vote for Independence if there was a vote today.

  28. #28

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by light up the darkness View Post
    To this I would add the amount of European money that was meant for Wales but which we never saw a penny of decided by both Labour and Tory governments. Wales cannot trust either of them
    Wales may have some chance of existing if it could remain n the European Union but it could never prosper because as noted it isn’t economically viable and n my opinion Wales does not possess enough intelligent people in politics who are clever enough to manage such a transition successfully.
    I would interpret your last line as a lack of confidence not just in our politics but as a country. Is there, potentially, no-one in Wales who knows how to sustain a nation? How do the Irish or the people of Iceland get by without someone watching over their shoulders to make sure they've done it right?

  29. #29

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    At this point in time I would rather have an independent, Welsh owned and funded, high quality media outlet rather than an independent Wales.

    Wales online is horrific, we need an independent media to hold Westminster and the Assembly to account, as well putting Welsh political and social agendas front and centre.

    With an independent media behind you, you can make a better case for or against a separate Wales (not that I want that). You can't rely on the BBC (backed by central government) and the London owned outlets to drive Welsh agendas in any depth.

    Personally I think it's better to fight for more autonomy and law making powers rather than splitting up the UK. This pandemic has shown Wales often needs a different approach to the wider UK, so lets get more devolution.

  30. #30

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    That's a pretty decent membership for a group like Yes Cymru, considering the low levels of political participation in the UK. For instance only about 0.2% of the population are members of the Conservative Party so to have 0.3% for a relatively new group about a traditionally fringe movement is pretty good going
    the Tories have donations measured in millions, I'd be surprised if YesCymru had donations measured in thousands.

    When you look at the Welsh results, the Tories polled better than Plaid Cymru at the last election. That says all you need to know about where the Welsh see their future. Around 10% vote for Plaid, and its not getting any higher than that.

    Leaving the union would be economic suicide, as we have nothing much to offer the English in terms of trade.

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