Political post.. @Yescymru

[Citizen's Nephew]

yes of course, but this Welsh independence movement is about being free from England, not about being free.


I can't see the unionists ever agreeing to that, but you clearly think otherwise


Likewise, I doubt this will happen in my time


Have you actually been to England? its got a bit more about it than the old boys network.


I'm pro EU, you're preaching to the choir


been there done that, perhaps if you understood I'm for less borders not more, i'm for people not state, you might appreciate why I don't think splitting into smaller and smaller political entities is a good thing.


I'm still Welsh, British and European. how can anyone take that away from me, since its a feeling. Perhaps you can explain?


so, anarchy, libertarian in the classical sense.


I've not mentioned feasibility studies at all. I was just saying that what was in my mind a sensible decision (and I say this as someone who travels to and from my office in Bristol regularly) was to improve the road network. you're not going to get Mr UK out of his car, as its too ingrained in his psyche.

agreed, but you're talking about oppressive regimes that stifled people's freedoms. We just don't have that here in Wales. most are too busy wondering who's going to be ejected from a house/beach/jungle/song contest to take to the streets to make a difference

Seriously, I appreciate you going to trouble of addressing these points and will ignore the "whateverrr" but just try to not sling insults.

I honestly can't go through everything but will just say, things are veering off into other directions and I don't want to hijack this thread.

For the record, there's absolutely no anti-English bone in my body. I've been educated, lived and worked in England over the years. Let's not make this anti-English when it isn't. I cringe when we chant anti-English stuff (especially as we have an English manager, English players and play in the English league).

I've never really thought of myself as anything other than humanitarian.

I don't deny that travel by car to Bristol everyday gives you a different perspective but as someone who hasn't driven for over ten years because of disability, we can all adapt. I love motorsport but and football but it will never be at the expense of the environment.

And no, of course I wasn't comparing Wales to those examples of world change. I was just highlighting that we have no idea what's going to happen and anything is possible. It's both exciting and frightening.

I can no longer easily travel and work/live in Europe. Nothing you say will change that. That has been taken away from me. I'm angry about it.

[Feedback]

Apropos of the anti English sentiment, it wasn't addressed at you, so apologies if it came across that way.

The general impression I get (from the nationalists) is that they'd trade UK membership for EU membership, which isn't really independence, just independence from the English.

And for what its worth, I'm none too happy about leaving the EU. We have a common ideal in wanting to travel freely without impediment.

[life on mars]

I've yet to meet any English man or woman who harbours this mythical dislike of the Welsh. In fact, a lot of the English I speak to love Wales and its people.

the dislike is a one way street, they really only like to beat us a rugby, and then only the southerners.

Strange you should say that, most of my contacts are English including family , there love of Wales is really impressive , especially as they are aware of some Welsh folks dislike of anything English .

Very sad.

British Welsh sounds good to me .

[az city]

our largest trading partner is England, by a country mile. you'd swap free trade with England for free trade with the EU. you're a ****ing moron, there's no other way to say it and I apologise in advance for saying it.

Calm down, dear. It's an internet message board.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Apropos of the anti English sentiment, it wasn't addressed at you, so apologies if it came across that way.

The general impression I get (from the nationalists) is that they'd trade UK membership for EU membership, which isn't really independence, just independence from the English.

And for what its worth, I'm none too happy about leaving the EU. We have a common ideal in wanting to travel freely without impediment.

I get it. Thank you. I was never going to get involved with anything other than football on this board. That didn't last long!

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

I've yet to meet any English man or woman who harbours this mythical dislike of the Welsh. In fact, a lot of the English I speak to love Wales and its people.

the dislike is a one way street, they really only like to beat us a rugby, and then only the southerners.

Rubbish. There's Anne Robinson for a start.

[Garth Blue]

I've read this many times and I have no idea what it is you are trying to say.

You said you have more in common with someone from Bristol than North Wales. When I support the Welsh National team. I am surrounded by people from all over Wales. Town and Country. Urban and Rural. North South East and West. Welsh speakingand English speaking. We have everything in common and it feels great.

[Garth Blue]

I used to be a very strong nationalist, Welsh and nothing, as i left school i would go on pro-wales marches, my dream was a independent Wales, the FWA and MAC were inspirational to a young blue matt, fighting for our freedom, I then met a few gogs on a march, had a few beers and they really didnt like anyone from South Wales, I was welsh through and through , but to these gogs i was almost English, afterall i was from Barry, it was a eye opener for me

I then put my welshness into folliowing cardiff and wales, that was enough for me, i voted PC, job done, as welsh as welsh can be

I then met some girl on holiday, she was from Cheltenham ( so from the evil empire ) she way out of my league so i ignored the fact that she wasnt welsh, I then began to realise that it was all rather stupid, Welsh or English, it makes no difference, look at the current issue with Andy Burnham ( the great north / south divide ), Someone somewhere will decide they are hard done by by someone else, it is always someone else's fault,

I then moved down here ( near Bath ) and not many English dislike the Welsh, when we were doing well in Euro16, alot of English were supporting the Welsh, Wales is alot of people down here 2nd team, they want us to do well, afterall they are our neighbours

You can be Welsh and still British, the English are not really the evil empire

I am not anti-English, I am anti-Westminster. I want the best for Wales. Simple as that.

[Feedback]

You said you have more in common with someone from Bristol than North Wales. When I support the Welsh National team. I am surrounded by people from all over Wales. Town and Country. Urban and Rural. North South East and West. Welsh speakingand English speaking. We have everything in common and it feels great.

Its no different from the Niedersachsen / Plaatdeutsch considering themselves Dutch / German but having a common culture.

I can be Welsh and British at the same time

[Garth Blue]

Its no different from the Niedersachsen / Plaatdeutsch considering themselves Dutch / German but having a common culture.

I can be Welsh and British at the same time

Of course you can be should you wish. But it appears that being Welsh means very little to you if you feel you have more in common with someone from Bristol. Supporting my national team means a lot to me. And the feeling when all of Wales comes together to support them is amazing.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Rubbish. There's Anne Robinson for a start.

I saw a repeat of that recently. It's awful, truly awful and am still really annoyed it was ever broadcast. It was bad then but seeing it in 2020 is even worse. Weakest link was the TV watchdog! https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/apr/16/race.world

[Vindec]

Of course you can be should you wish. But it appears that being Welsh means very little to you if you feel you have more in common with someone from Bristol. Supporting my national team means a lot to me. And the feeling when all of Wales comes together to support them is amazing.

I'll never forget the advert on Ely Bridge which went along the lines of "Never forget you're Welsh". But you don't have to live in Wales to know that.

[blue matt]

I saw a repeat of that recently. It's awful, truly awful and am still really annoyed it was ever broadcast. It was bad then but seeing it in 2020 is even worse. Weakest link was the TV watchdog! https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/apr/16/race.world

it wasnt the end of the world then, and certainly isnt now, one persons opinion, who really cares ? ?

[Feedback]

Of course you can be should you wish. But it appears that being Welsh means very little to you if you feel you have more in common with someone from Bristol. Supporting my national team means a lot to me. And the feeling when all of Wales comes together to support them is amazing.

Thats your opinion but it really doesn't mean cultural differences are made at a line on a map. People are transient, political entities are not.

[ken smith]

Its no different from the Niedersachsen / Plaatdeutsch considering themselves Dutch / German but having a common culture.

I can be Welsh and British at the same time

Not if you have a Welsh Nationalist tattoo you cant

[blue matt]

I am not anti-English, I am anti-Westminster. I want the best for Wales. Simple as that.

fair enough

[The Gifaffe]

Of course he's not saying that.

We can invest in infrastructure projects that will help the economy, but HS2 doesn't benefit us at all, neither does trident.

I'd love to see a severn barrage at some point in the future.
Schemes like this
http://euanmearns.com/the-severn-barrage-revisited/
Suggest they can generate up to 10% of the UKs energy at a very cheap price in comparison with other methods.

That could be enough to provide the whole of wales with cheap energy (which will be attractive to industry) and have enough left over to sell to England.

Even better if it could also include a road bridge to Lavernock or Nash point, as that could really boost the area.

This kind of project SHOULD be easier to achieve in a union like the UK, but it is so London centric that I don't think it would ever happen.

The point is we don't pay for Trident or HS2 currently as we are net beneficiaries of grants and handouts which we're able to spend on the infrastructure projects I listed which we already have(my personal favourite being the Merthyr bypass).

If we were independent we would not have the money for a Severn barrage.

[The Gifaffe]

So not that he made a lot of money off the back a Welsh natural resource?

I was answering a statement about all the 'Welsh' millions going to London. The money was made possible by outside investment. Welsh workers got paid cash too.

[BLUETIT]

Just seeing what appetite there is on this board for moving towards full independence.

I think the ineptness of the Tories, the arogance & corruption of Westminster and the London-centric / English biased media (including the left-wing media), has made it easier to believe we would be better off on our own.

I'm under no illusions that it will be difficult and we have a long way to go, but has anyone else shifted towards independence recently?

You gotta be F ucking taking the piss !!!!!!!!!!!

You seriously want Donald DUCKford in charge !!!!!!!!

[Citizen's Nephew]

it wasnt the end of the world then, and certainly isnt now, one persons opinion, who really cares ? ?

I agree, but if you substitute Welsh for any other nationality I'd very much doubt it would have been broadcast.

[ken smith]

You gotta be F ucking taking the piss !!!!!!!!!!!

You seriously want Donald DUCKford in charge !!!!!!!!

You're a 70 year old man, grow up.

If Wales ever get independence Labour will not be the ones in charge.

One of the main posters on this thread (against Welsh independence) told me in person that if Wales did something with corporation tax (lowering it I think) that that would cover everything due to the inward investment.

[BLUETIT]

You're a 69 year old man, grow up.

If Wales ever get independence Labour will not be the ones in charge.

One of the main posters on this thread (against Welsh independence) told me in person that if Wales did something with corporation tax (lowering it I think) that that would cover everything due to the inward investment.

[Vindec]

I see the important questions haven't been answered such as the currency and the deficit Wales has over England yet still some believe independence is preferable. Mention is made of the Severn Barrage. I doubt it will ever happen even if it makes more sense now than it did 40 years ago when the scheme was first suggested. Other grandiose schemes such as the Severnside Airport won't happen either for the same reason - finance. However, such schemes would be even less likely to happen if Wales were independent; there simply would not be the finance as those in Wales would already be taxed to the hilt to help with the deficit which would probably be a requirement of the UK government if the pound became the currency and also would reinforce the fact Wales could never be truly independent. Wales could never meet the stringent economic requirements of the EU either so the euro would not be an option. The main scheme that is needed - the M4 improvement around Newport - could and should happen but, wait a minute, politics seems to have got in the way. If there was the political will that scheme would be built but it seems the Welsh government are against it even though the scheme would provide jobs by promoting industrial development. So, even if independence were to happen (which it won't) could the politicians be trusted to do the right thing?

[Vindec]

You're a 70 year old man, grow up.

If Wales ever get independence Labour will not be the ones in charge.

One of the main posters on this thread (against Welsh independence) told me in person that if Wales did something with corporation tax (lowering it I think) that that would cover everything due to the inward investment.

That's the policy of the Tory government which Labour oppose.

[WJ99mobile]

You're a 70 year old man, grow up.

If Wales ever get independence Labour will not be the ones in charge.

One of the main posters on this thread (against Welsh independence) told me in person that if Wales did something with corporation tax (lowering it I think) that that would cover everything due to the inward investment.

Then Ireland would just lower theirs