Political post.. @Yescymru

[AfricanBluebird]

Thanks all for contributing ... Some really astute and interesting posts, from both sides of the argument and from those undecided or flirting with the idea of independence. And mostly respectful of each others opinions even when polar opposite..

I wasn't trying to cause arguments or convert anyone, but just gauge the temperature for independence.

Diolch yn fawr

[The Bloop]

I love the idea of Wales being truly independent but I cant see how economically viable it is in the near future. Saying that though, the question of Wales's identity and potential independence should never go away, and if it takes an organisation like YesCymru to stop the idea from disappearing, then it's fine by me.

[Divine Wright]

Yes.

We are a comparatively humble people.

No illusions of grandeur.

We would get along fine by ourselves.

We wouldn't balls things up like England has done with Brexit and would maintain decent relations with countries around us, making us a viable member of the EU and a sustainable independent state. It's all about diplomacy when it comes to the economy.

Those of you who have concerns about the economic impact should listen to the latest YesCymru podcast.... amongst other things.

I get the feeling that fearing independence is part of colonial conditioning. You are obviously made to feel inadequate when placed next to such a huge power. However, that power is now fading rapidly and countries like Wales, Scotland, Ireland no longer look like such no-hopers.

[WJ99mobile]

I don't have the data to back this up I wonder if;


Brexit supporter = No to independence
EU supporter = Yes to independence

[MacAdder]

Would have thought other way around.

[Rjk]

I don't have the data to back this up I wonder if;


Brexit supporter = No to independence
EU supporter = Yes to independence

I am a strong EU supporter and pretty neutral on Welsh independance, i'd always previously been against it but may just be tipping into the pro independance group

[az city]

I don't have the data to back this up I wonder if;


Brexit supporter = No to independence
EU supporter = Yes to independence

This, I think is one of the most insightful comments in this thread.

[Hilts]

Far more negatives.

But are they outweighed by no more Boris , Cummings , Haccock , Coffey , Patel , Raab , Jenrick , Williamson , Whatley etc.

Farage and the UKIP loons gone.

For me thats enough at the moment.

Would I now vote Independence which ive always been 100% against.

Yes thanks to this lot.

Theres not going to be a vote though.

[Rjk]

It's all a moot point anyway, as any such vote would fail spectacularly.

There are huge numbers of English people living in Wales who would never want it, so it isn't going to happen.

[Trigger]

I just don't get the point.

Maybe I'm just not Welsh enough, I've always been happy to identify as being Welsh and British, I have lived over the border previously but felt this way long before that. I know I have as much in common with someone from Bristol as I do Swansea.

I just don't get it, what am I missing?

[blue matt]

I just don't get the point.

Maybe I'm just not Welsh enough, I've always been happy to identify as being Welsh and British, I have lived over the border previously but felt this way long before that. I know I have as much in common with someone from Bristol as I do Swansea.

I just don't get it, what am I missing?

I used to be a very strong nationalist, Welsh and nothing, as i left school i would go on pro-wales marches, my dream was a independent Wales, the FWA and MAC were inspirational to a young blue matt, fighting for our freedom, I then met a few gogs on a march, had a few beers and they really didnt like anyone from South Wales, I was welsh through and through , but to these gogs i was almost English, afterall i was from Barry, it was a eye opener for me

I then put my welshness into folliowing cardiff and wales, that was enough for me, i voted PC, job done, as welsh as welsh can be

I then met some girl on holiday, she was from Cheltenham ( so from the evil empire ) she way out of my league so i ignored the fact that she wasnt welsh, I then began to realise that it was all rather stupid, Welsh or English, it makes no difference, look at the current issue with Andy Burnham ( the great north / south divide ), Someone somewhere will decide they are hard done by by someone else, it is always someone else's fault,

I then moved down here ( near Bath ) and not many English dislike the Welsh, when we were doing well in Euro16, alot of English were supporting the Welsh, Wales is alot of people down here 2nd team, they want us to do well, afterall they are our neighbours

You can be Welsh and still British, the English are not really the evil empire

[Feedback]

I used to be a very strong nationalist, Welsh and nothing, as i left school i would go on pro-wales marches, my dream was a independent Wales, the FWA and MAC were inspirational to a young blue matt, fighting for our freedom, I then met a few gogs on a march, had a few beers and they really didnt like anyone from South Wales, I was welsh through and through , but to these gogs i was almost English, afterall i was from Barry, it was a eye opener for me

I then put my welshness into folliowing cardiff and wales, that was enough for me, i voted PC, job done, as welsh as welsh can be

I then met some girl on holiday, she was from Cheltenham ( so from the evil empire ) she way out of my league so i ignored the fact that she wasnt welsh, I then began to realise that it was all rather stupid, Welsh or English, it makes no difference, look at the current issue with Andy Burnham ( the great north / south divide ), Someone somewhere will decide they are hard done by by someone else, it is always someone else's fault,

I then moved down here ( near Bath ) and not many English dislike the Welsh, when we were doing well in Euro16, alot of English were supporting the Welsh, Wales is alot of people down here 2nd team, they want us to do well, afterall they are our neighbours

You can be Welsh and still British, the English are not really the evil empire

I've yet to meet any English man or woman who harbours this mythical dislike of the Welsh. In fact, a lot of the English I speak to love Wales and its people.

the dislike is a one way street, they really only like to beat us a rugby, and then only the southerners.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

I've yet to meet any English man or woman who harbours this mythical dislike of the Welsh. In fact, a lot of the English I speak to love Wales and its people.

the dislike is a one way street, they really only like to beat us a rugby, and then only the southerners.

Rubbish. There's Anne Robinson for a start.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Rubbish. There's Anne Robinson for a start.

I saw a repeat of that recently. It's awful, truly awful and am still really annoyed it was ever broadcast. It was bad then but seeing it in 2020 is even worse. Weakest link was the TV watchdog! https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/apr/16/race.world

[Garth Blue]

I used to be a very strong nationalist, Welsh and nothing, as i left school i would go on pro-wales marches, my dream was a independent Wales, the FWA and MAC were inspirational to a young blue matt, fighting for our freedom, I then met a few gogs on a march, had a few beers and they really didnt like anyone from South Wales, I was welsh through and through , but to these gogs i was almost English, afterall i was from Barry, it was a eye opener for me

I then put my welshness into folliowing cardiff and wales, that was enough for me, i voted PC, job done, as welsh as welsh can be

I then met some girl on holiday, she was from Cheltenham ( so from the evil empire ) she way out of my league so i ignored the fact that she wasnt welsh, I then began to realise that it was all rather stupid, Welsh or English, it makes no difference, look at the current issue with Andy Burnham ( the great north / south divide ), Someone somewhere will decide they are hard done by by someone else, it is always someone else's fault,

I then moved down here ( near Bath ) and not many English dislike the Welsh, when we were doing well in Euro16, alot of English were supporting the Welsh, Wales is alot of people down here 2nd team, they want us to do well, afterall they are our neighbours

You can be Welsh and still British, the English are not really the evil empire

I am not anti-English, I am anti-Westminster. I want the best for Wales. Simple as that.

[blue matt]

I am not anti-English, I am anti-Westminster. I want the best for Wales. Simple as that.

fair enough

[Hilts]

It's all a moot point anyway, as any such vote would fail spectacularly.

There are huge numbers of English people living in Wales who would never want it, so it isn't going to happen.

If Trump can be president anything is possible. This govt is so completely useless anything could happen.

[Feedback]

An alliance of equal partners. Unlike the relationship with England

With Germany and France being more equal than others.

[Garth Blue]

With Germany and France being more equal than others.

The way the EU looked after the interests of Ireland in the Brexit discussions show that there is strength in partnership. Unfortunately they hadn't bargained on Boris being a lying coniving bastard. Big mistake that. Still waiting to hear on what basis you regard Wales is doing well.

[Feedback]

The way the EU looked after the interests of Ireland in the Brexit discussions show that there is strength in partnership. Unfortunately they hadn't bargained on Boris being a lying coniving bastard. Big mistake that. Still waiting to hear on what basis you regard Wales is doing well.

great, so why aren't you happy with the partnership we have with England? We have a much greater say in UK affairs than we ever would in EU affairs, we have access to our largest trading partner with no customs, duties, excise or trade barriers of any kind whatsoever. We have freedom of movement and no language barriers at all.

What benefits would being in the EU give that being in the UK won't?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

great, so why aren't you happy with the partnership we have with England? We have a much greater say in UK affairs than we ever would in EU affairs, we have access to our largest trading partner with no customs, duties, excise or trade barriers of any kind whatsoever. We have freedom of movement and no language barriers at all.

What benefits would being in the EU give that being in the UK won't?

You're basically giving the reasons why the UK leaving the EU is such folly, but here's my response.

Free trade with hundreds of millions. Freedom to live, work and study in Europe. I reckon that, whatever we lost on financially from Westminster would be more than made up in EU grants to improve infrastructure and make Wales a better place to do business and create jobs. Instead of an insular island that thinks it is a world leader, we'd be a part of something much bigger.

If there was independence, I reckon it wouldn't be a hard independence like some want for the UK from the EU. I think that if Wales and Scotland were both independent and were members of the EU, England would have to rethink its relationship with the EU. However, there would be something quite poetic about English people needing visas to come and live, work and holiday in Wales!

[Feedback]

You're basically giving the reasons why the UK leaving the EU is such folly, but here's my response.

Free trade with hundreds of millions. Freedom to live, work and study in Europe. I reckon that, whatever we lost on financially from Westminster would be more than made up in EU grants to improve infrastructure and make Wales a better place to do business and create jobs. Instead of an insular island that thinks it is a world leader, we'd be a part of something much bigger.

If there was independence, I reckon it wouldn't be a hard independence like some want for the UK from the EU. I think that if Wales and Scotland were both independent and were members of the EU, England would have to rethink its relationship with the EU. However, there would be something quite poetic about English people needing visas to come and live, work and holiday in Wales!

I don't disagree with the bit in bold, its why we should have remained in the EU. However, taking on board the hard Brexit we are about to experience, all the reasons given for the UK to stay in the EU (free market at its door, freedom of movement with its largest trading partner) would then apply to Wales if we were to leave the UK.

Whether you like it or not, our largest trading partner by far is England, and if England is outside of the EU then the benefits of remaining, for Wales at least, would be tiny compared to being part of the UK. If we joined the EU for free trade, we'd have tariffs, customs, duties and excise on any trade with England. Are we really advocating going into a trade war with the English - lets remember, what we export is miniscule from their point of view.

[Citizen's Nephew]

You're basically giving the reasons why the UK leaving the EU is such folly, but here's my response.

Free trade with hundreds of millions. Freedom to live, work and study in Europe. I reckon that, whatever we lost on financially from Westminster would be more than made up in EU grants to improve infrastructure and make Wales a better place to do business and create jobs. Instead of an insular island that thinks it is a world leader, we'd be a part of something much bigger.

If there was independence, I reckon it wouldn't be a hard independence like some want for the UK from the EU. I think that if Wales and Scotland were both independent and were members of the EU, England would have to rethink its relationship with the EU. However, there would be something quite poetic about English people needing visas to come and live, work and holiday in Wales!

So this!

[az city]

What benefits would being in the EU give that being in the UK won't?

You're surely not serious. Look up the size of the EU single market and compare with England.

That's one of the silliest comments you've made thus far.

[Feedback]

You're surely not serious. Look up the size of the EU single market and compare with England.

That's one of the silliest comments you've made thus far.

our largest trading partner is England, by a country mile. you'd swap free trade with England for free trade with the EU. you're a ****ing moron, there's no other way to say it and I apologise in advance for saying it.