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Thread: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

  1. #76

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    Public private partnership can work. To be honest, I dont really care, as long as good services are delivered.
    So you're happy for public sector involvement, just not public sector workers being involved.

    Glad that's cleared that one up......

  2. #77
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    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    So you're happy for public sector involvement, just not public sector workers being involved.

    Glad that's cleared that one up......
    you need to read what was written. I have said that the trading company should be run by those who have experience in business, whereas the public sector needs to be kept at arms length with any interaction as a shareholder only.

    Perhaps if you were familiar with company law you'd understand how the directors of a company are the trustees of a company acting on behalf if its shareholders, for the shareholders, meeting the shareholders requirements. The problems start when you have politicians and civil servants, who have little or no experience of running a business, get involved.

    leave the running of the business to its experienced managers, and allow the public sector to provide oversight as shareholders.

    it doesn't happen though, politicians like to get involved and that is when things go awry.

  3. #78

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    you need to read what was written. I have said that the trading company should be run by those who have experience in business, whereas the public sector needs to be kept at arms length with any interaction as a shareholder only.

    Perhaps if you were familiar with company law you'd understand how the directors of a company are the trustees of a company acting on behalf if its shareholders, for the shareholders, meeting the shareholders requirements. The problems start when you have politicians and civil servants, who have little or no experience of running a business, get involved.

    leave the running of the business to its experienced managers, and allow the public sector to provide oversight as shareholders.

    it doesn't happen though, politicians like to get involved and that is when things go awry.
    You've not moved on in the last decade have you, this was the sort of tired old stuff you used to come out with in your Feedback days.

    Changing the subject completely as they used to say in Yes (Prime) Minister, did you see that the UK Government's dogma driven test and trace programme had yet another worst ever week? I think its success rate is down to the low sixties now when it needs to be at least eighty, good news for Serco's shareholders then I presume .

  4. #79

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    You've not moved on in the last decade have you, this was the sort of tired old stuff you used to come out with in your Feedback days.

    Changing the subject completely as they used to say in Yes (Prime) Minister, did you see that the UK Government's dogma driven test and trace programme had yet another worst ever week? I think its success rate is down to the low sixties now when it needs to be at least eighty, good news for Serco's shareholders then I presume .
    Didn’t realise TISS was feedy.

    I do tire at ‘all public service workers are incompetent/lazy’ rhetoric but there is definitely form of buggering something up when it’s not your own money.

    But this in principle is brilliant for Wales and they need to be given a chance. Of course, the organisation has to be competent but surely theyd bring in people with experience.

  5. #80

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Thatcherite nonsense , stick it up your arse

    My mother and father had superb care from the NHS and social services on leaving hospital

    6 weeks later they were handed over to private carers who turned up late and couldn't wait to get on to the next job

    I used to catch the train before privatisation , the service was far better and more reliable
    When you resort to bad language you have lost the argument.

  6. #81

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by Its been emotional View Post
    There's a new train depot flying up as we speak for the stabling and maintenance of the new rolling stock
    https://news.tfwrail.wales/news/buil...control-centre

  7. #82

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    The cost of some of the contracts awarded to private companies, often illegally, during the pandemic is shocking. The initial track and trace app which resulted in several u-turns was a shocking waste of tax payers money.

    The Public Sector has it's faults but many of the issues are caused by the UK Government actions and rules.

  8. #83

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    When you resort to bad language you have lost the argument.
    I disagree

  9. #84

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by PontBlue View Post
    The cost of some of the contracts awarded to private companies, often illegally, during the pandemic is shocking. The initial track and trace app which resulted in several u-turns was a shocking waste of tax payers money.

    The Public Sector has it's faults but many of the issues are caused by the UK Government actions and rules.
    Cummings relative , who fecked up talktalk suddenly arrives as the big wig of track and trace

    Fecking public sector ?

    My arse

  10. #85
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    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    You've not moved on in the last decade have you, this was the sort of tired old stuff you used to come out with in your Feedback days.
    don't read it then, simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Changing the subject completely as they used to say in Yes (Prime) Minister, did you see that the UK Government's dogma driven test and trace programme had yet another worst ever week? I think its success rate is down to the low sixties now when it needs to be at least eighty, good news for Serco's shareholders then I presume .
    what is your point? the government have messed up. Well colour me shocked.

  11. #86
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    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    Didn’t realise TISS was feedy.

    I do tire at ‘all public service workers are incompetent/lazy’ rhetoric but there is definitely form of buggering something up when it’s not your own money.

    But this in principle is brilliant for Wales and they need to be given a chance. Of course, the organisation has to be competent but surely theyd bring in people with experience.
    I take it you're not familiar with the Welsh Government?

  12. #87
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    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by PontBlue View Post
    The cost of some of the contracts awarded to private companies, often illegally, during the pandemic is shocking. The initial track and trace app which resulted in several u-turns was a shocking waste of tax payers money.

    The Public Sector has it's faults but many of the issues are caused by the UK Government actions and rules.
    ^^^^ this guy gets it.

  13. #88

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    ^^^^ this guy gets it.
    which government brought in the increasing role of private sector involvement in public services like transport , social care and private health . ?

    was it the Welsh assembly government , who I think have many faults or was it central Westminster government, beginning in 1979 ?

  14. #89

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    I take it you're not familiar with the Welsh Government?
    You could say the same and worse about the government in Westminster.

    Train subsidies have over doubled in real terms since privatisation. Fares are 20% higher in real terms since privatisation. Those are facts. We have a system where private train operators' failures are bailed out by the taxpayer but profits are kept. Imagine a rule forcing operators to return profits to repay bailouts?

    Train operators have found legal loopholes to cancel franchises early at huge cost to the taxpayer. You'll probably blame those in the public sector for drawing up these contracts in the first place yet we all know top legal teams will find ways around virtually anything.

    If a publically owned rail operator loses money it gets bailed out in the same way. If it makes a profit, it goes back into that railway, not into some multi millionaire's pocket for them to hoard overseas. Surely that's a good thing.

    For all of your bile about the public sector, it's worth noting that recent cases where the public sector have taken over a franchise, they've done pretty well with it. It's not been the clueless mess you claim. Far from it. What's your opinion on Cardiff airport, where passenger numbers have risen well since the takeover?

    Another thing. If a publically owned train operator brings in someone to run their railway who has proven success. Do they not become a public sector worker, regardless of their background? Vice versa, take a public servant who becomes successful at a private company. No doubt to you they'd be a useless public servant if they failed but a great private sector employee if he succeeded.

  15. #90

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    which government brought in the increasing role of private sector involvement in public services like transport , social care and private health . ?

    was it the Welsh assembly government , who I think have many faults or was it central Westminster government, beginning in 1979 ?
    The Private Finance Initiative was exploited to the full by a Labour government even though the Conservatives introduced it. Do research.

  16. #91

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    The Private Finance Initiative was exploited to the full by a Labour government even though the Conservatives introduced it. Do research.
    I think you've misunderstood his point

  17. #92

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I think you've misunderstood his point
    It is relevant.

    It was stated:

    which government brought in the increasing role of private sector involvement in public services like transport , social care and private health . ?

    Wasn't increased use of the private sector for public services enhanced by PFI contracts which affects the money available for other services including health?

  18. #93

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    don't read it then, simple.

    what is your point? the government have messed up. Well colour me shocked.
    The point was there in my use of the word "dogma". You've taken up a good portion of this thread dissing public servants, so I thought I'd even things up a little, by mentioning a case where the private sector with their "business expertise" and need to satisfy their shareholders have proved to be nowhere near as effective as their public sector counterparts despite having nearly 500 times more Government money than the combined total of what it would have taken to feed schoolchildren during holidays and the difference between was offered and what Manchester wanted thrown at it.

  19. #94

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    It is relevant.

    It was stated:

    which government brought in the increasing role of private sector involvement in public services like transport , social care and private health . ?

    Wasn't increased use of the private sector for public services enhanced by PFI contracts which affects the money available for other services including health?
    Maybe read it again

  20. #95
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    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    The point was there in my use of the word "dogma". You've taken up a good portion of this thread dissing public servants, so I thought I'd even things up a little, by mentioning a case where the private sector with their "business expertise" and need to satisfy their shareholders have proved to be nowhere near as effective as their public sector counterparts despite having nearly 500 times more Government money than the combined total of what it would have taken to feed schoolchildren during holidays and the difference between was offered and what Manchester wanted thrown at it.
    I've read this twice and i have no idea what you are referring to. Have I missed a previous post?

  21. #96
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    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    which government brought in the increasing role of private sector involvement in public services like transport , social care and private health . ?

    was it the Welsh assembly government , who I think have many faults or was it central Westminster government, beginning in 1979 ?
    Perhaps public services were so bad in 1979 that the government thought they'd try something different than nationalisation.

  22. #97

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    The Private Finance Initiative was exploited to the full by a Labour government even though the Conservatives introduced it. Do research.
    I am not supporting Blair and his tory lot

    The initiative was brought in by the witch and things have never got better

  23. #98

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    It is relevant.

    It was stated:

    which government brought in the increasing role of private sector involvement in public services like transport , social care and private health . ?

    Wasn't increased use of the private sector for public services enhanced by PFI contracts which affects the money available for other services including health?
    the answer was your conservatives brought in the private sector into health , energy , social care etc

    And things have gone down the shit pipe and never recovered

  24. #99

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    Perhaps public services were so bad in 1979 that the government thought they'd try something different than nationalisation.
    Well its been a complete and utter **** up

    It was done to save money but its just made private companies rich and pissed on people needing social care, buses and trains . And of course the health service .

    Thatcher said that there was no such thing as society

    There was before , she and the free market twats have made sure everything's fecked now

  25. #100

    Re: WAG to take over control of trains confirmed

    Corporate greed needs to end in this Country before anything will get better.
    We will have elderly people who worked hard all their lives dying in their own homes freezing to desth this winter because they chose to eat before putting on the heating in their homes as they live in poverty. But the big energy companies will make billions in profit and moan they didn't make as much as last year and hike the prices again.
    How can this be right in this day and age? and they tell us we are the 5/6th biggest economy in the world?

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