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Thread: No U turn on essential goods ban

  1. #101

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Nothing to indicate a change of policy on the official guidance page;-

    https://gov.wales/coronavirus-firebr...sked-questions
    Watching Wales Today it was saying that Drakeford had stressed the economic reasons for shops not selling non essential goods but the legislation only allows them to do this for public health reasons so now they are saying it is to stop people making too many journeys to the shops!!

  2. #102

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    So not the Senedd then that has zero % of the non-essential goods market?
    Not sure what you are on about with zero %, but the Senedd certainly influenced 5% of the UK supermarket market by banning a range of what they say are non essential goods throughout supermarkets in Wales. And it turns out they have no authority to do this for economic reasons ie they say to be fair to/ to ensure a level field/ to level things out for those non essential shops they instructed to close.
    So now they say it is for public health reasons but offer no rational why they want to do this now when it wasn’t necessary in their first lockdown.
    They met with supermarket representatives today who probably told them they were acting outside their remit and tonight I was pleased to hear the spokesperson for the Wales retail consortia say that the likely outcome will be to open all aisles to customers whilst discouraging them from seeking non essential goods.
    Some face saving common sense at last

  3. #103

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Lets see whats on the news.

    Hopefully Xsnaggle can provide a link.
    I replied to Bob directly about what the news said on this

  4. #104

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    Watching Wales Today it was saying that Drakeford had stressed the economic reasons for shops not selling non essential goods but the legislation only allows them to do this for public health reasons so now they are saying it is to stop people making too many journeys to the shops!!
    I think Drakeford should give his citizens some credit for intelligence as I’m sure most will do non essential shopping at the same time that they do their essential shopping

  5. #105

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    And there was me wondering why you thought the Senedd was a dominant entity when these are undertakings that achieve a dominant market position.

    Undertakings are defined as " any natural or legal person engaged in economic activity, regardless of its legal
    status and the way in which it is financed. It includes companies, partnerships, firms, businesses, individuals operating as sole traders, agricultural cooperatives, associations of undertakings (e.g. trade associations), non-profit making organisations and (in some circumstances) public entities that offer goods or services on a given market.

    With your extensive knowledge of commercial law perhaps you could explain how the Senedd meets the definition of an undertaking that has become a dominant entity?
    It’s to do with their influence on the market, not necessarily the market share an entity holds.Whilst each case can be different depending on market size etc it’s not unusual to be deemed dominant with a 5% share,
    When you look at what the Senedd did unlawfully for commercial reasons was to trim the range of goods available to the general public throughout all supermarkets in Wales, at a time when the opportunities for the welsh public to travel to outlets that had a full range of goods on sale were non existent.

  6. #106

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    This is a bad period in our history
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54685886

  7. #107

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    This is a bad period in our history
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54685886
    that's clearly some idiot in a Tesco, not the fault of the Welsh government

  8. #108

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    This is a bad period in our history
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54685886
    I agree. Interesting to see Vaughan Gethin using a Jose Mourinho tactic of stariting an interview with something dramatic to deflect from the real issue of addressing the confusion and uprising over the non essential goods saga.

  9. #109

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    I agree. Interesting to see Vaughan Gethin using a Jose Mourinho tactic of stariting an interview with something dramatic to deflect from the real issue of addressing the confusion and uprising over the non essential goods saga.
    Vaughan Gethin seems to be a terrible communicator. If he's next leader of Welsh Labour then it's in trouble.

  10. #110

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    I agree. Interesting to see Vaughan Gethin using a Jose Mourinho tactic of stariting an interview with something dramatic to deflect from the real issue of addressing the confusion and uprising over the non essential goods saga.
    Never mind, someone robbed £20,000 worth of beauty products from St Mellons Tesco, if you've ever been to St mellons i'd say that beauty products are definitely essential.

  11. #111
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    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Lets see whats on the news.

    Hopefully Xsnaggle can provide a link.
    Why would you expect me to provide a link. I have no opinion on what is or is not an essential item except that I see no reason why alcohol should be..

  12. #112

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    Why would you expect me to provide a link. I have no opinion on what is or is not an essential item except that I see no reason why alcohol should be..
    ????

    Youve said the lockdown is now being reviewed on 9th November.

    Its now clear thats not the case after seeing the news.

    No need for a link as there wont be one.

    Agree on alcohol though.

  13. #113
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    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Wales national lockdown in new year 'likely', says minister
    A second Wales-wide lockdown in the new year is looking increasingly likely, according to a Welsh Government minister.

    Lee Waters, a deputy minister responsible for economy and transport, said the current firebreak was unlikely to be the last in Wales - with England "expected" to follow.

    The Welsh Government had previously only gone as far as saying it "could not rule out" another lockdown.

    The current national 17-day lockdown is due to be reviewed when it comes to an end on 9 November.

  14. #114

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    I think Drakeford should give his citizens some credit for intelligence as I’m sure most will do non essential shopping at the same time that they do their essential shopping
    Wasn't this point about buying non essential stuff at the same time as food made at the start of the National Lockdown in March.

    I would double check but I have done so much fact checking and reading through articles since march I can't be bothered tonight

  15. #115
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    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Maybe just be less of a dick and read this:

    https://gov.wales/ps33m-new-cardiff-...id-19-facility

    Then come back and find something else to moan about that has no substance.
    Well I replied to you.
    In the article you so obligingly provided it says quote "“The build will be aligned to the de-commissioning programme of the Dragon’s Heart Hospital at the Principality Stadium which we will have vacated by the end of October and will enable the WRU to start making their own plans at the stadium. As a health service we will take on board all of the learning from Dragon’s Heart Hospital in terms of design and clinical requirements for a temporary surge hospital and work to the national modelling requirements. and will enable the WRU to start making their own plans at the stadium. As a health service we will take on board all of the learning from Dragon’s Heart Hospital in terms of design and clinical requirements for a temporary surge hospital and work to the national modelling requirements." Unquote/

    the part in blue would seem to suggest it was intended to be ready for when the old one closed.
    so tell me why I'm being a dick and why has this no substance? Is it purely because you don't agree with it?

    If it is someone from your family that cannot go to either in the interim period who'll look a dick then?

  16. #116

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    Vaughan Gethin seems to be a terrible communicator. If he's next leader of Welsh Labour then it's in trouble.
    When Drakeford was Health Minister he suddenly stopped doing interviews and Gethin would always do them on the news or current affairs program

    I never really watched the assembly and presume Drakeford did it there but I could be wrong.

    That is why I was surprised when Drakeford went for the leaders job.

    Can you imagine what Labour would say at Westminster if Matt Hancock never faced the media?

  17. #117
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    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Oh, Snags, you are incapable of hurting my feelings. I was simply calling you out for being a dick because you're desperately looking for an axe to grind when it comes to Welsh Labour (be it the council or members of the Sender).

    When I gave you some good news about the new nightingale hospital you gave a sarcastic reply because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. That's incredibly dickish behaviour considering the subject matter.

    The Dragon's Heart nightingale hospital is massive. The new one will allow 400 patients (which is in line with estimations of what may be required, apparently) and it's located directly next to the biggest hospital in Wales, which I'm sure you would agree makes logistical sense when it comes to transferring patients.

    Winter for me starts 1st December, but reports say it will be completed "before winter" and it's "on track" to meet the expected need for beds.

    This sounds like good news to me and it's good news for the Chief Exec of the University Health Board... But, please, tell everyone why you think it's shit and don't forget to use a fake anecdote that will help your argument.
    I have no problem with the new one, it is clearly much better placed, and probably given the time that's been available will be better equipped. I only asked why they closed one before the other was ready?
    I have no particular problem with the welsh government but I think, and have stated ,that Drakeford is terrible and looks very bad on TV, which is what people see and judge politicians by these days. I don't like him personally, not his government.

    False anecdotes? Remind me?

  18. #118

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    It’s to do with their influence on the market, not necessarily the market share an entity holds.Whilst each case can be different depending on market size etc it’s not unusual to be deemed dominant with a 5% share,
    When you look at what the Senedd did unlawfully for commercial reasons was to trim the range of goods available to the general public throughout all supermarkets in Wales, at a time when the opportunities for the welsh public to travel to outlets that had a full range of goods on sale were non existent.
    Obviously mixing up the Senedd, a Competent authority with a commercial undertaking that could have dominant influence on a market seems reasonably plain to most folks, just not to the Commercial expert that has spent most of his life apparently understanding the different public/private responsibilities.

  19. #119
    Heisenberg
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    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    Well I replied to you.
    In the article you so obligingly provided it says quote "“The build will be aligned to the de-commissioning programme of the Dragon’s Heart Hospital at the Principality Stadium which we will have vacated by the end of October and will enable the WRU to start making their own plans at the stadium. As a health service we will take on board all of the learning from Dragon’s Heart Hospital in terms of design and clinical requirements for a temporary surge hospital and work to the national modelling requirements. and will enable the WRU to start making their own plans at the stadium. As a health service we will take on board all of the learning from Dragon’s Heart Hospital in terms of design and clinical requirements for a temporary surge hospital and work to the national modelling requirements." Unquote/

    the part in blue would seem to suggest it was intended to be ready for when the old one closed.
    so tell me why I'm being a dick and why has this no substance? Is it purely because you don't agree with it?

    If it is someone from your family that cannot go to either in the interim period who'll look a dick then?
    You were being a dick for the reason I already gave. I'll cover the reason again in this post, but you can go back and read my previous post again you're unsure.

    "If it is someone from your family that cannot go to either in the interim period who'll look a dick then?"

    You would.

    You'd look like a dick for suggesting that I'll look like a dick if a member of my family cannot get the care that they need if they're unwell just because I pointed out facts about the nightingale hospital being built which you didn't like and called you a dick for your sarcastic attitude about the subject.

    In fact, I'd say you were more of a c**t for suggesting I'd look like a dick because of the above... but that's just my opinion.

    The old nightingale hospital doesn't have any current patients as far as I'm aware and the new one is due to be completed before the expected spike in winter. That sounds like reasonable planning to me... building something to be ready for when it may be required.

    Why don't you just hold on to your prejudices against Labour on this issue until it's actually warranted? If the new hospital isn't completed and there aren't enough beds for Covid patients, then you'll be able to gloat until your heart's content and... Until then, why not see how it pans out, eh?

    I'm sure there are several other issues you can find to have a go at Drakeford/Cardiff Council over which make more sense than this.

  20. #120
    Heisenberg
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    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I have no problem with the new one, it is clearly much better placed, and probably given the time that's been available will be better equipped. I only asked why they closed one before the other was ready?
    I have no particular problem with the welsh government but I think, and have stated ,that Drakeford is terrible and looks very bad on TV, which is what people see and judge politicians by these days. I don't like him personally, not his government.

    False anecdotes? Remind me?
    False anecdotes... I can think of two recent ones off the top of my head:

    The people "high up" who wanted the pubs to stay closed and the numerous bull you've spouted about Castle Street involving conversations you've had with vendors etc.

    Going to watch a film now. Speak to you tomorrow.

  21. #121
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    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    False anecdotes... I can think of two recent ones off the top of my head:

    The people "high up" who wanted the pubs to stay closed and the numerous bull you've spouted about Castle Street involving conversations you've had with vendors etc.

    Going to watch a film now. Speak to you tomorrow.
    The people 'in positions of influence' is something I honestly believe to be true. The vendors I have and do speak to. If you doubt what they think go and ask them yourself. if you're going to call me a liar prove me wrong!

  22. #122
    Heisenberg
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    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    The people 'in positions of influence' is something I honestly believe to be true. The vendors I have and do speak to. If you doubt what they think go and ask them yourself. if you're going to call me a liar prove me wrong!
    Sure... no problem. Which shops shall I go into once they've reopened and ask for their thoughts on Castle Street closures?

  23. #123

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Y



    The old nightingale hospital doesn't have any current patients as far as I'm aware and the new one is due to be completed before the expected spike in winter. That sounds like reasonable planning to me... building something to be ready for when it may be required.

    Why don't you just hold on to your prejudices against Labour on this issue until it's actually warranted? If the new hospital isn't completed and there aren't enough beds for Covid patients, then you'll be able to gloat until your heart's content and... Until then, why not see how it pans out, eh?
    It's a heck of a risky strategy closing down one facility before a replacement is built. There is at least a six week gap between one hospital closing and the new one opening. That's certainly not sensible planning. Had the virus taken off differently, as it could have and has elsewhere, there would be no excess capacity in SE Wales. Indeed bed capacity for COVID patients is already under pressure according to Vaughan Gethin at today's press conference.

    As it happens it looks as though things will work out but by luck rather than judgement. Those in power must have been praying that infection rates in Wales did not escalate at or above the level they have in the North of England. In the circumstances it is understandable why the Welsh government introduced the firebreak.

  24. #124

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    Obviously mixing up the Senedd, a Competent authority with a commercial undertaking that could have dominant influence on a market seems reasonably plain to most folks, just not to the Commercial expert that has spent most of his life apparently understanding the different public/private responsibilities.
    Yes I know what the Senedd is thank you and I explained that it recently acted unlawfully by taking a position outside of it's areas of responsibility. When it comes to the EU / UK Laws on Competition I do know the rules quite well and not just from a google search. As a Competent authority it is not above the law, and competition law covers any entity that has economic activity.

  25. #125
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    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    It's a heck of a risky strategy closing down one facility before a replacement is built. There is at least a six week gap between one hospital closing and the new one opening. That's certainly not sensible planning. Had the virus taken off differently, as it could have and has elsewhere, there would be no excess capacity in SE Wales. Indeed bed capacity for COVID patients is already under pressure according to Vaughan Gethin at today's press conference.

    As it happens it looks as though things will work out but by luck rather than judgement. Those in power must have been praying that infection rates in Wales did not escalate at or above the level they have in the North of England. In the circumstances it is understandable why the Welsh government introduced the firebreak.
    That is the only simple point I was trying to make, but people jump on it as an attack against welsh labour and do everything except answer the question. The question would be the samecwhoever was in government.

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