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Thread: No U turn on essential goods ban

  1. #26
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    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    If someone wantssomething that desperately they can drive to Cribbs Causway and buy it.
    I know that shouldn't happen either but the police are check English plated cars coming into Wales not welsh ones or any going out, so if someone feels the need to spread the stuff they will find a way.

  2. #27

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    Ok. Alive but no job, no money, no place to live, no friends etc. Not much of a difference really is it.
    Nothing is as bad as oblivion DML, even reading your posts

  3. #28

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    I reckon there will be a U turn as there is to be a review after the weekend.

  4. #29
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    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    It's all pointless, anyway. Once the two weeks are up, we'll all head out again, and the figures will start to rise. But wait - do I see a vaccine on the horizon? That's our only hope for a 'normal life' in the near future. But by then, any small business will have closed down...


    I read that there is not likely to be a ‘cure’ as such rather coronavirus will be endemic and we will have recurring waves each year pretty much like we do with the flu. The COVID 19 vaccines will give a similar level of protection as flu jabs. It will not cure it. It will not stop people catching it. The vaccines as they are currently being developed are focused on reducing the symptoms and the associated illnesses.

    Over time for most people our bodies will build a level of resistance. When the virus mutates the vaccines will have to follow.

    Politics, when we are talking about people’s lives and livelihoods, shouldn’t enter into it. Doing the right thing is not a political football but I’m afraid that it’s inevitable that businesses will suffer. Some will not recover. Shopping habits are likely to change. City centres may change their profile because the nature of the way in which people are likely to change their shopping habits.

    Fewer shops will pay less business rates to local government requiring local authorities to raise the level of council tax being paid to support an ever reducing level of service.

    The NHS needs a serious overhaul.... we’re all doomed

  5. #30

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    But also a lot of people will be saved from death; I know which I would prefer
    First, I think Drakeford should stop micro-managing the people of Wales. Yes we have a lockdown but to dictate a list of what we can or cannot buy in a supermarket is ridiculous. He talks about being fair to businesses that have closed, but how about him being fair to us for a change. If he wants us to minimise our time outside our homes then a one stop shop is the answer for many. When we are in the store then it makes sense to try and buy all we need be it beer or a new kettle in one visit. He is fast becoming a tin pot dictator in many peoples' eyes.

    Secondly, why are we having this lockdown? He says he follows the advice of his technical advisors who say that this lockdown may save as many as 750 lives by March 2021. But to do that did he have to lockdown the whole of Wales where some areas have the lowest incidence of Covid in the UK? And the cost in lost jobs and bust business....who knows?

    Finally, what next? He promised he would tell us last Friday on his weekly TV show, but he hasn't. So the world awaits his words before we can move on beyond 9 November.

    Do I really live in a democracy in Wales or has it passed me by?

  6. #31

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    Nothings perfect Elwood. But it's fun to see the right wingers on here showing off their yoga skills by twisting themselves into any torturous position just to criticize the Welsh government.

    The aim is laudable to protect small business though it will obviously protect large businesses at the same time ( although those with an online presence may not do so badly - that's Primark stuffed then!!)

    But pointing out that there is a large and obvious loophole in this policy is hardly tortuous.

    And I am more centrist than right wing

    Now where has my butler gone.......

  7. #32

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Alun Cairns , the former Welsh secretary voted against the school meals initiative for underprivileged kids

    In the past he has claimed for a second home in Cardiff even though he lives 25 minutes drive from Cardiff

    He's got more faces than a town hall clock

    Its why I hate tories , not traditional one nation conservatives like Ken Clarke but tories

    Drakeford has the charisma of a 3 day old fish , he's made many mistakes and I hope to God Welsh Labour soon find someone better to lead the party

    His policies regarding this pandemic have been haphazard but this latest lock down is to reduce the increase in cases and save lives

    To suggest he's doing this to prove a political point is asshole thinking and to suggest he's deliberately trying to wreck the economy is utter bollocks . My old dear is 86 , if she dies peacefully in her sleep from old age that's the way it goes . If some silly bunch of twats at number 26 have a house party and spread the virus and she has a long lingering death I won't be blaming drakeford , I will be going round to see them with my mate Mr baseball bat

    I agree with Lisvaneblue the micromanagement is daft and things need to be made clearer . Parents of young children need to be assured they can get pampers or nappies etc

    But at the very core we are talking about the health and welfare of everybody . And the old bill , care workers , people working in chemists and the doctors and nurses need protecting . As do people working in shops serving us.

  8. #33

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    First, I think Drakeford should stop micro-managing the people of Wales. Yes we have a lockdown but to dictate a list of what we can or cannot buy in a supermarket is ridiculous. He talks about being fair to businesses that have closed, but how about him being fair to us for a change. If he wants us to minimise our time outside our homes then a one stop shop is the answer for many. When we are in the store then it makes sense to try and buy all we need be it beer or a new kettle in one visit. He is fast becoming a tin pot dictator in many peoples' eyes.

    Secondly, why are we having this lockdown? He says he follows the advice of his technical advisors who say that this lockdown may save as many as 750 lives by March 2021. But to do that did he have to lockdown the whole of Wales where some areas have the lowest incidence of Covid in the UK? And the cost in lost jobs and bust business....who knows?

    Finally, what next? He promised he would tell us last Friday on his weekly TV show, but he hasn't. So the world awaits his words before we can move on beyond 9 November.

    Do I really live in a democracy in Wales or has it passed me by?
    Probably to do with clarity of message

  9. #34

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    First, I think Drakeford should stop micro-managing the people of Wales. Yes we have a lockdown but to dictate a list of what we can or cannot buy in a supermarket is ridiculous. He talks about being fair to businesses that have closed, but how about him being fair to us for a change. If he wants us to minimise our time outside our homes then a one stop shop is the answer for many. When we are in the store then it makes sense to try and buy all we need be it beer or a new kettle in one visit. He is fast becoming a tin pot dictator in many peoples' eyes.

    Secondly, why are we having this lockdown? He says he follows the advice of his technical advisors who say that this lockdown may save as many as 750 lives by March 2021. But to do that did he have to lockdown the whole of Wales where some areas have the lowest incidence of Covid in the UK? And the cost in lost jobs and bust business....who knows?

    Finally, what next? He promised he would tell us last Friday on his weekly TV show, but he hasn't. So the world awaits his words before we can move on beyond 9 November.

    Do I really live in a democracy in Wales or has it passed me by?
    I for one am perfectly happy he's micro managing people; remember the "Doncaster Races" outing a month or so back in Abercynon? In a worldwide crisis people cannot be relied upon to do the right thing so sorry if it saves lives then democracy can take s back seat as far as I'm concerned. But Drakeford is far from a tin pot dictator, we should be proud of and thankful for his efforts compared to the idiot presiding over England.

    I'm sure if you read some of the threads on here you'd understand why he's curtailed the sale of "non essential" goods in supermarkets. No it's not perfect and yes we can all quibble about what is essential or not and I'm sure I could find disagreement with him on some items on his list but the reasoning behind it is sound. It's an honest attempt to make a difficult situation a fair one. He obviously doesn't want to disadvantage smaller traders unduly; and that's right and proper in my book.

    I'm not going to go into depth on the reasons why he implemented this firebreak but suffice to say the national lockdown in the spring saved countless lives and I believe there is no other option to address the problem given the current situation with test and trace failings and the absence of a vaccine. As for it being widespread well I'm absolutely delighted it is in the spirit of unity and solidarity.

  10. #35

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    People are stupid

    A bus load of pissed up idiots crosses the country leading to a spike

    Drakeford gets a kicking for asking people to stay at home and buy essentials only

    The mistake he has made is saying you can buy alcohol but not other goods that clearly are essential

    This is where he needs to sharpen up

  11. #36

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    True, but the main reason for it is the first part of my sentence though isn't it, stopping people from going to the supermarket unless they have to. Yes I know there's loopholes, people don't have to buy alcohol for example. None of this is easy and there is no logically flawless catch all
    From what Drakeford said the main reason for the non essential item ban was to protect the businesses that had to close not to stop supermarket visits.

    Weren't people told in the National Lockdown that they could only buy non essential goods if they were bought at the same time as their essential food shopping to stop having too many visits

  12. #37

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    I don't think any of our leaders in the UK have done that well to be honest.

    (Sorry that was meant to be a response to one of Dorcus where he said we should proud of Drakefords response to the pandemic or something along those lines.)

  13. #38

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    I don't think any of our leaders in the UK have done that well to be honest.

    (Sorry that was meant to be a response to one of Dorcus where he said we should proud of Drakefords response to the pandemic or something along those lines.)
    Each has had different ups and downs. Think Drakeford has communicated Senedd's choices better than most, Sturgeon has gone hard and early which is what was initially needed and needed again at start of second spike, Boris opened up as soon as could which gave boost to economy. On the other hand, Drakeford has probably been overly cautious, Sturgeon has made some decisions which will be seen as big errors with time, and Boris has done several things wrong, largely errors in communication and in big moments, but got lucky on basis of greater wealth and/or greater space between clusters of people in England.

  14. #39

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    The problem is that clothes etc will be bought on line.

    They usually arrive next say and once people get used to it they will keep doing it.

    Could affect the shops more than if they bought a few clothes from the supermarkets
    We had months of lockdown earlier in the year. People bought online. I don't buy into any claims that this latest, brief lockdown will inspire a new generation of internet buyers.

    On reflection, I don't really know where I stand on whether non-essential items shouldn't be available, simply because for some people at some times, what may be non-essential for the vast majority will be very essential. I certainly think anything for babies and children should be absolutely essential.

    However, I feel that the biggest issue with all of this isn't actually the items themselves. It's from people who have had enough of being told what to do, who feel their freedom isn't their own, so there's a natural rebellion. Misinformation has been spread around along with nonsensical conspiracy theories, dividing normal people in a similar way to Brexit. I can't help but think that if we had a major war now and people were ordered to have their lights out by certain times, to follow procedures for all sorts of things, we'd have conspiracy theorists and peddling of bollocks by those supposedly more upset at losing a few freedoms.

  15. #40

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Drakeford OUT

  16. #41

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Drakeford OUT
    Who do you want to replace him ?

    You can either choose someone from the current labour administration

    Or vote out the Labour administration by replacing them with plaid or the conservatives

    Personally I couldn't vote for plaid as they are nationalists and I would rather have my eyes poked out with a sharp stick than vote tory

  17. #42

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Drakeford is merely following Labour's policy. Starmer wants a total lockdown in England and Drakeford has done more or less the same thing with his firebreak in Wales. This morning on Andrew Marr it was stated that Ceredigion had 33 cases per 100k of population with Cardiff over 300 indicating it made no sense to penalise Ceredigion with such low number of infections.

    Let's face it any government, whatever their political persuasion be it Labour in Wales or the Tories, are sitting targets for those who want to score political points. This virus is breaking new ground, throwing up all kinds of unforeseen problems and nobody has found a popular way to deal with them.

  18. #43

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    Drakeford is merely following Labour's policy. Starmer wants a total lockdown in England and Drakeford has done more or less the same thing with his firebreak in Wales. This morning on Andrew Marr it was stated that Ceredigion had 33 cases per 100k of population with Cardiff over 300 indicating it made no sense to penalise Ceredigion with such low number of infections.

    Let's face it any government, whatever their political persuasion be it Labour in Wales or the Tories, are sitting targets for those who want to score political points. This virus is breaking new ground, throwing up all kinds of unforeseen problems and nobody has found a popular way to deal with them.
    The tourist industry of west Wales was initially telling everyone to keep out of Pembrokeshire, then they wanted it opened up , then shut . Now they want it opened up again because the virus rate is low .

  19. #44

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    We had months of lockdown earlier in the year. People bought online. I don't buy into any claims that this latest, brief lockdown will inspire a new generation of internet buyers.

    On reflection, I don't really know where I stand on whether non-essential items shouldn't be available, simply because for some people at some times, what may be non-essential for the vast majority will be very essential. I certainly think anything for babies and children should be absolutely essential.

    However, I feel that the biggest issue with all of this isn't actually the items themselves. It's from people who have had enough of being told what to do, who feel their freedom isn't their own, so there's a natural rebellion. Misinformation has been spread around along with nonsensical conspiracy theories, dividing normal people in a similar way to Brexit. I can't help but think that if we had a major war now and people were ordered to have their lights out by certain times, to follow procedures for all sorts of things, we'd have conspiracy theorists and peddling of bollocks by those supposedly more upset at losing a few freedoms.

    No, on reflection I didn't phrase my earlier couple of posts very well.

    Of course a lot will have already experienced shopping online. There will be those who decide to keep doing it for most of their needs but I am sure many will at least partially have gone back to more local shopping.

    Now they will probably go online so local stores will lose business anyway (presumably all the supermarkets online business will be under no restriction on selling non essentials!!).

    As I said elsewhere the intention is probably laudable but it may not have all the effect the Welsh Government hopes for.

    I agree with your point about babies and children but then what about the elderly,disabled,sick who might need new clothing and bedding. I am sure there are other cases as well.

    I don't envy governments of any persuasion in coping with the complexities they are facing now.

    But they all wanted the job.

  20. #45

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Who do you want to replace him ?

    You can either choose someone from the current labour administration

    Or vote out the Labour administration by replacing them with plaid or the conservatives

    Personally I couldn't vote for plaid as they are nationalists and I would rather have my eyes poked out with a sharp stick than vote tory
    I do think a form of opposition is healthy in any political environment.

  21. #46

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I do think a form of opposition is healthy in any political environment.
    Absolutely but have you seen the calibre of the opposition ?

  22. #47

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    No, on reflection I didn't phrase my earlier couple of posts very well.

    Of course a lot will have already experienced shopping online. There will be those who decide to keep doing it for most of their needs but I am sure many will at least partially have gone back to more local shopping.

    Now they will probably go online so local stores will lose business anyway (presumably all the supermarkets online business will be under no restriction on selling non essentials!!).

    As I said elsewhere the intention is probably laudable but it may not have all the effect the Welsh Government hopes for.

    I agree with your point about babies and children but then what about the elderly,disabled,sick who might need new clothing and bedding. I am sure there are other cases as well.

    I don't envy governments of any persuasion in coping with the complexities they are facing now.

    But they all wanted the job.
    You've highlighted the problem very well here by adding others who might need certain things to the list. I think we're all guilty of not considering what someone else might need, though I think that in the majority of cases, what someone might need as an essential doesn't turn out to be an essential. My experience of elderly people is that they have enough bedding for a village and wardrobes full of clothes they don't want to throw out in case they 'come in handy'.

    In terms of clothes, there can't be many, even disabled people, who don't have enough clothes to get by for fortnight. That's not to say there aren't any. I lost a cousin earlier this year who had a favourite shirt from Tesco. He had serious mental health issues. It was the only shirt he'd wear. If it got damaged, he replaced it with the same one. You can imagine when that shirt was no longer stocked etc. Issues like that could cause a major issue for someone.

    I said to a Tory supporting friend on social media recently that I have no problems with those in power making u-turns, when they are sensible. We all make mistakes and need to correct them. As long as the original aim is understandable and makes sense, then fine by me. It's when those in power make dishonest decisions and do things not for the general good but to curry favour and stick by them, then they deserve all the hostility they get.

  23. #48

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    You've highlighted the problem very well here by adding others who might need certain things to the list. I think we're all guilty of not considering what someone else might need, though I think that in the majority of cases, what someone might need as an essential doesn't turn out to be an essential. My experience of elderly people is that they have enough bedding for a village and wardrobes full of clothes they don't want to throw out in case they 'come in handy'.

    In terms of clothes, there can't be many, even disabled people, who don't have enough clothes to get by for fortnight. That's not to say there aren't any. I lost a cousin earlier this year who had a favourite shirt from Tesco. He had serious mental health issues. It was the only shirt he'd wear. If it got damaged, he replaced it with the same one. You can imagine when that shirt was no longer stocked etc. Issues like that could cause a major issue for someone.

    I said to a Tory supporting friend on social media recently that I have no problems with those in power making u-turns, when they are sensible. We all make mistakes and need to correct them. As long as the original aim is understandable and makes sense, then fine by me. It's when those in power make dishonest decisions and do things not for the general good but to curry favour and stick by them, then they deserve all the hostility they get.
    I look at the restrictions on retail in two ways. Fist the closure of non essential shops by the Senedd is OK as its a public health issue and part of the 'fire-break'. Some shops remaining open is another part of the plan to give people access to 'essential 'shopping

    Producing a list of non essential items is getting into micro management but is OK.

    However, instructing essential shops, mainly supermarkets, to stop selling non essential items in order to be 'fair to closed shops and to level things up' is nothing to do with public health, and sits in the area of commerce and the UK competition act. I doubt it's within the remit of the Senedd to do this and on the surface it appears anti-competitive. For sure the UK Competition act is not devolved.

  24. #49

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    I’m backing the WG generally as they are infinitely more competent than the sick jokes in London but they are allowing their critics to fill their boots here. Stupid stores who close off toothpaste and hygiene products aren’t helping either.

  25. #50

    Re: No U turn on essential goods ban

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    I look at the restrictions on retail in two ways. Fist the closure of non essential shops by the Senedd is OK as its a public health issue and part of the 'fire-break'. Some shops remaining open is another part of the plan to give people access to 'essential 'shopping

    Producing a list of non essential items is getting into micro management but is OK.

    However, instructing essential shops, mainly supermarkets, to stop selling non essential items in order to be 'fair to closed shops and to level things up' is nothing to do with public health, and sits in the area of commerce and the UK competition act. I doubt it's within the remit of the Senedd to do this and on the surface it appears anti-competitive. For sure the UK Competition act is not devolved.
    Perhaps WG would argue it's allowing the smaller shops to be competitive. How can supermarkets being restricted be anti-competitive when supermarkets have less competition at the moment?

    In any case, I would imagine that any reasonable legislation to help fight Covid would take precedence and rightly so.

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