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Thread: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

  1. #101

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbert View Post
    The virus spreads most easily in crowded confined spaces especially where people are engaged in activities which result in higher numbers of virus particles being expelled. The risk of becoming infected is in large part determined by how long someone is in contact with an infected person, for how long and how infectious the person is. The NHS Covid-19 app for contact tracing defines a high risk encounter as one where an individual has been within 2 metres of someone who has tested positive for Coronavirus for at least 15 minutes during 1 day (of course it cannot determine whether someone is indoors or outdoors which is a major determinant of infection risk).

    This is why people socialising indoors represent a much higher risk and people active outdoors and socially distancing present a low (negligible?) risk. It follows there is not much evidence to suggest shopping in a supermarket in controlled conditons makes a very significant contribution to case numbers. This is likely because encounters with other people shopping are mostly transient so the exposure is too brief to result in transmission and also the large size of the store and controlled numbers of shoppers.

    According to WOL the Welsh Government’s abrupt policy change last Thursday was due to Conservative MS Russell George saying it was "unfair" to force independent clothing and hardware retailers to shut while similar goods were on sale in major supermarkets. In other words the policy change was made for narrow party political reasons ahead of public health concerns about the risk of virus transmission. Unfortunately the resulting fiasco has created a situation where attention has been deflected from the serious situation Wales finds itself in.

    If the Welsh Government had planned this policy properly and followed the science and also sought the expertise of the supermarkets in good time then this situation would have been avoided. It sounds like a partial U-turn will be announced later which will sensibly allow supermarkets to use their discretion on the purchase of non-essential items. Lets hope that the focus can then move back onto far more important public health matters.
    Amen to that.

    Hopefully the public health experts on here defending such an absurd policy will crawl back under their rock.

  2. #102

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Amen to that.

    Hopefully the public health experts on here defending such an absurd policy will crawl back under their rock.
    I think it's an entirely correct policy. why should people go sauntering down the jeans aisle or looking at shoes during a 2 week lockdown?
    if it is allowed then it dilutes the seriousness of the message that this is a short sharp lockdown to minimise the disease as much as possible. a half arsed approach would be a complete waste of time

  3. #103

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Amen to that.

    Hopefully the public health experts on here defending such an absurd policy will crawl back under their rock.
    How rude, the ‘public health experts’ on here, as you refer to them, were the ones who were being level headed and in their view the two weeks terrible hardship of not being able to purchase non essential goods was not such a massive deal. The dramatic screamers & shouters were the ones who were likening it to a two year ban on buying bread and water. The ‘public health expert’ accusation obviously works both ways as the ‘open the lot’ point of view because the virus wouldn’t spread was borne out of their vast medical knowledge. Yeah right!

  4. #104

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I think it's an entirely correct policy. why should people go sauntering down the jeans aisle or looking at shoes during a 2 week lockdown?
    if it is allowed then it dilutes the seriousness of the message that this is a short sharp lockdown to minimise the disease as much as possible. a half arsed approach would be a complete waste of time
    Yes the jean aisle in Asda and Tesco is often so busy we get the kind of stampede we see in Supermarkets when they start their Black Friday deals.

  5. #105

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    How rude, the ‘public health experts’ on here, as you refer to them, were the ones who were being level headed and in their view the two weeks terrible hardship of not being able to purchase non essential goods was not such a massive deal. The dramatic screamers & shouters were the ones who were likening it to a two year ban on buying bread and water. The ‘public health expert’ accusation obviously works both ways as the ‘open the lot’ point of view because the virus wouldn’t spread was borne out of their vast medical knowledge. Yeah right!
    Paaaaleeease. The drama is coming from the public health experts who think we are going to get quadruple the amount of cases if we dare to let some old biddy pick up a fresh pair of thermals with their weekly shop.

  6. #106

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods


  7. #107

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    The Welsh Government asked for trouble by using such vague terms as "essential" and "non essential", but this piece

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...wales-12112959

    helps explain what are regarded as essential items which can be still be bought - must say it's a wider list than I was expecting to see.

    So, can anybody who has been moaning about measures which, after all, are only going to be in place for less than a fortnight now, come up with any item classed as non essential which they feel they will have desperate need for before 9 November - not forgetting of course that these can, almost certainly, still be purchased online.

    How close is this article to what is the wider feeling in Wales I wonder?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...pendence-trust

  8. #108

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    We were micromanaged to the extreme by politicians for months. To say anything else is being pigheaded and/or in denial.

    We were literally allowed to leave the house once a day for exercise at one point. Now we're getting people losing their mind because, they can't buy a ****ing toaster or a kettle for 17 days.

    A lot of rewriting history going on with this new lockdown and it stinks.
    You can't aim anything at LB, he wanted to go prawn shopping in Brecon when 700 people a day were dying of Covid 19 in the UK, he's at least consistent. Plenty of others have changed their tune though. People on here almost weeping over NHS workers, grass your neighbour became a national past time, emotive stories about elderly parents having to live on Pot Noodles, Rainbows in windows etc. Panic had set in, there wasn't a great deal of balance, i get that, people were just worried and concerned.

    Fast forward 6 months and some people have got a bit bored of it all. No longer are they concerned about safety first, even if it may be over cautious-who knows-The novelty has worn off. Plenty are just Tories looking for a gap to attack Welsh Labour, who are far from perfect, but what are they supposed to do?

    This is how it is until a vaccine is found. It speaks volumes that this is the biggest -in terms of numbers-Petition the WAG has ever recieved, when there is so much more to protest about all around us. I can only come to the conclusion that there are some really selfish people about.

  9. #109

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbert View Post
    The virus spreads most easily in crowded confined spaces especially where people are engaged in activities which result in higher numbers of virus particles being expelled. The risk of becoming infected is in large part determined by how long someone is in contact with an infected person, for how long and how infectious the person is. The NHS Covid-19 app for contact tracing defines a high risk encounter as one where an individual has been within 2 metres of someone who has tested positive for Coronavirus for at least 15 minutes during 1 day (of course it cannot determine whether someone is indoors or outdoors which is a major determinant of infection risk).

    This is why people socialising indoors represent a much higher risk and people active outdoors and socially distancing present a low (negligible?) risk. It follows there is not much evidence to suggest shopping in a supermarket in controlled conditons makes a very significant contribution to case numbers. This is likely because encounters with other people shopping are mostly transient so the exposure is too brief to result in transmission and also the large size of the store and controlled numbers of shoppers.

    According to WOL the Welsh Government’s abrupt policy change last Thursday was due to Conservative MS Russell George saying it was "unfair" to force independent clothing and hardware retailers to shut while similar goods were on sale in major supermarkets. In other words the policy change was made for narrow party political reasons ahead of public health concerns about the risk of virus transmission. Unfortunately the resulting fiasco has created a situation where attention has been deflected from the serious situation Wales finds itself in.

    If the Welsh Government had planned this policy properly and followed the science and also sought the expertise of the supermarkets in good time then this situation would have been avoided. It sounds like a partial U-turn will be announced later which will sensibly allow supermarkets to use their discretion on the purchase of non-essential items. Lets hope that the focus can then move back onto far more important public health matters.
    I'm confused by your third paragraph - are you saying the Labour party took on board what a Conservative MEP complained about for "narrow party political reasons"? I ask because I'm not sure who benefitted from them - maybe I'm being naive , but it seems to me that one party thought that someone in another party made a reasonable point and acted upon it.

  10. #110

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Im sure we can all agree that if this clown was to get a serious dose of the covids it will be karma at its finest.

    Disclaimer: In this instance the "clown" I am referring to is Hancock not Sludge.

  11. #111

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Im sure we can all agree that if this clown was to get a serious dose of the covids it will be karma at its finest.

    Disclaimer: In this instance the "clown" I am referring to is Hancock not Sludge.
    Lol 😆

  12. #112

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    So, can anybody who has been moaning about measures which, after all, are only going to be in place for less than a fortnight now, come up with any item classed as non essential which they feel they will have desperate need for before 9 November - not forgetting of course that these can, almost certainly, still be purchased online.
    As a moaner, before I answer your question I have a quick one for you: have you been in any supermarkets since Saturday?

  13. #113

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Sure I saw a graph last week depicting the spread Of Covid was almost 90% In household mixing, this could be general gatherings for a few drinks, or people going back post pub or just to watch football etc I’m not sure. There hasn’t been a single case in my kids school, heard of one or two in schools nearby like roath park and Albany, but not much at Primary level.

  14. #114

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    As a moaner, before I answer your question I have a quick one for you: have you been in any supermarkets since Saturday?
    Yes, did my weekly shop yesterday morning and was able to get everything I wanted.

  15. #115

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    Sure I saw a graph last week depicting the spread Of Covid was almost 90% In household mixing, this could be general gatherings for a few drinks, or people going back post pub or just to watch football etc I’m not sure. There hasn’t been a single case in my kids school, heard of one or two in schools nearby like roath park and Albany, but not much at Primary level.
    There are quite a few cases in my children's school.

    If your child catches it from school, but then comes home and gives it to their Mother, Father and Brother, would that count as 3 household transmissions against 1 school transmission.

  16. #116

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Yes, did my weekly shop yesterday morning and was able to get everything I wanted.
    And how was it in there? Were the staff managing to keep the hordes of non-essential shoppers at bay?

    I've been in three supermarkets since Saturday. On the way home from work yesterday evening, I called into Morrisons in Llanishen to get some milk and cereals. The first thing that greeted me as I passed through the barriers was a large display of toys positioned where they usually stack boxes of bottled beers. The Sky article you linked suggested supermarkets are not able to sell books or stationery, but these were readily available in Morrisons along with DVDs and CDs. The aisle where these items are stocked was operating as normal.

    They sell a limited range of clothes in Morrisons these days, mostly stuff for young kids, but the aisle where these are stocked was blocked off, as was the aisle where the homeware is kept. They were blocked at either end by large pallets stacked with boxes of unwrapped produce. One of the knock-on effects of this was less room in the shop's central aisle. The other was that the store had to abandon the socially-distanced queuing system it's had in place for the last three or four months because those queues usually begin in the aisles that are now blocked off. Great work, WAG.

    Onto B&M next door, where I was after some sweets I'm particularly partial to. This was hilarious. I wondered what the staff would manage to do in there as almost everything sold in B&M could be classified as non-essential. Their answer to the WAG's policy was to put a bit of gaffer tape at chest height across a couple of the aisles with hastily-printed pieces of A4 paper attached saying 'Please Only Buy Essential Goods'. There weren't many people in the shop (it was 7:15pm) and those that were there had completely ignored the signs. Literally everybody who was queuing up for the tills had items that were almost exclusively in the non-essential category. Naturally enough, the staff couldn't have cared less.

    Today I popped over to Lidl in Splott to get my stock of canned drinks for work - something I do once a week. All of the central display units which usually stock all of the weird and wonderful non-food items that Lidl sells were turned back to front. This set me wondering how many people ever actually go into Lidl with a specific non-essential item in mind. I doubt it's many. I only ever go there for food or drink, but I come out with all sorts of shit.

    To me, the whole thing looks exactly what it is - a pointless, petty shambles which has been put in place for no good reason.

    Here's a question for you and any other non-moaners: earlier in the year, when the virus was at its height in Wales, supermarkets were free to sell non-essential goods. We also weren't required by the WAG to wear face coverings while shopping in these stores. So what has changed? Why was it OK for supermarkets to sell non-essential good in March, April and May, but now it is allegedly outlawed? It's almost as if this measure hasn't been thought through properly.....

  17. #117

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    And how was it in there? Were the staff managing to keep the hordes of non-essential shoppers at bay?

    I've been in three supermarkets since Saturday. On the way home from work yesterday evening, I called into Morrisons in Llanishen to get some milk and cereals. The first thing that greeted me as I passed through the barriers was a large display of toys positioned where they usually stack boxes of bottled beers. The Sky article you linked suggested supermarkets are not able to sell books or stationery, but these were readily available in Morrisons along with DVDs and CDs. The aisle where these items are stocked was operating as normal.

    They sell a limited range of clothes in Morrisons these days, mostly stuff for young kids, but the aisle where these are stocked was blocked off, as was the aisle where the homeware is kept. They were blocked at either end by large pallets stacked with boxes of unwrapped produce. One of the knock-on effects of this was less room in the shop's central aisle. The other was that the store had to abandon the socially-distanced queuing system it's had in place for the last three or four months because those queues usually begin in the aisles that are now blocked off. Great work, WAG.

    Onto B&M next door, where I was after some sweets I'm particularly partial to. This was hilarious. I wondered what the staff would manage to do in there as almost everything sold in B&M could be classified as non-essential. Their answer to the WAG's policy was to put a bit of gaffer tape at chest height across a couple of the aisles with hastily-printed pieces of A4 paper attached saying 'Please Only Buy Essential Goods'. There weren't many people in the shop (it was 7:15pm) and those that were there had completely ignored the signs. Literally everybody who was queuing up for the tills had items that were almost exclusively in the non-essential category. Naturally enough, the staff couldn't have cared less.

    Today I popped over to Lidl in Splott to get my stock of canned drinks for work - something I do once a week. All of the central display units which usually stock all of the weird and wonderful non-food items that Lidl sells were turned back to front. This set me wondering how many people ever actually go into Lidl with a specific non-essential item in mind. I doubt it's many. I only ever go there for food or drink, but I come out with all sorts of shit.

    To me, the whole thing looks exactly what it is - a pointless, petty shambles which has been put in place for no good reason.

    Here's a question for you and any other non-moaners: earlier in the year, when the virus was at its height in Wales, supermarkets were free to sell non-essential goods. We also weren't required by the WAG to wear face coverings while shopping in these stores. So what has changed? Why was it OK for supermarkets to sell non-essential good in March, April and May, but now it is allegedly outlawed? It's almost as if this measure hasn't been thought through properly.....
    The answer is its a just over 2 week lockdown to try to get maximum effect for that period.

  18. #118

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    The answer is its a just over 2 week lockdown to try to get maximum effect for that period.
    Sure it is. They weren't bothered about maximum effect earlier in the year. They're just bothered about it now.

  19. #119

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Sure it is. They weren't bothered about maximum effect earlier in the year. They're just bothered about it now.
    Yes because its for 2 weeks not several months. I may be wrong but they probably feel people can manage for 2 weeks without the items classed as non essential whereas several months it will be far more difficult.

    I doubt many young children will change clothes or shoe sizes in 2 weeks. We are not talking about moving from just past winter to the middle of summer so new clothes footwear are needed.

    Im not saying this non essential restriction policy will have much effect. But i dont get why people are up in arms over it.

  20. #120

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    It speaks volumes that this is the biggest -in terms of numbers-Petition the WAG has ever recieved, when there is so much more to protest about all around us. I can only come to the conclusion that there are some really selfish people about.
    Perhaps, just perhaps, there are a significant number of people who are getting increasingly pissed off with pointless restrictions and the clowns who are implementing them?

    As I've already said, this particular policy won't affect me one iota and I haven't signed the petition against it. However, that doesn't mean to say it hasn't irritated me. It most certainly has, and I've also been irritated by the fact that some people seemingly believe they can look down upon or shame people who are fed up with this shit.

    A significant percentage of the population actually seem to be genuinely revelling in this situation now. I find that truly bizarre.

  21. #121

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Yes because its for 2 weeks not several months.
    I'm not sure I'm following your logic here. Are you suggesing that during the first lockdown the WAG knew the situation was going to last for several months, so they therefore had no problem with people buying any old shit in supermarkets?

  22. #122

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    I still want to know , as TLG points out if we're are still living with the Virus why indeed didn't WAG keep the disciplines of mask wearing in supermarkets where the elderly regulary frequent, it was a risk tgen as it is now

    Since the original first lockdown I've worn a mask each time I entered these awful establishments , and its been very noticeable how many haven't, should we not be aware of the risk in these environments at all times and not apply a switch on and off moment policy .

  23. #123

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I still want to know , as TLG points out if we're are still living with the Virus why indeed didn't WAG keep the disciplines of mask wearing in supermarkets where the elderly regulary frequent, it was a risk tgen as it is now

    Since the original first lockdown I've worn a mask each time I entered these awful establishments , and its been very noticeable how many haven't, should we not be aware of the risk in these environments at all times and not apply a switch on and off moment policy .
    Youve got to wear a mask havent you? Unless exempt.

  24. #124

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Perhaps, just perhaps, there are a significant number of people who are getting increasingly pissed off with pointless restrictions and the clowns who are implementing them?

    As I've already said, this particular policy won't affect me one iota and I haven't signed the petition against it. However, that doesn't mean to say it hasn't irritated me. It most certainly has, and I've also been irritated by the fact that some people seemingly believe they can look down upon or shame people who are fed up with this shit.

    A significant percentage of the population actually seem to be genuinely revelling in this situation now. I find that truly bizarre.
    I think it's due to the timescale of the lockdown, an attempt to limit the casual shoppers etc. It probably wont make a difference to anything, neither will other small changes implemented during this firebreaker or whatever it's called. I don't think that anyone is shaming or looking down on people, disagreeing certainly. Most people are fed up with it, but it isn't going to go away, not just yet. I've accepted it and carried on accordingly, lets face it, we're not slumming it, there's plenty to get on with, and there's football. I haven't met anyone revelling in it.

  25. #125

    Re: Petition WAG Let Parents Buy Essential Goods

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    I'm not sure I'm following your logic here. Are you suggesing that during the first lockdown the WAG knew the situation was going to last for several months, so they therefore had no problem with people buying any old shit in supermarkets?
    I'd say yes, as there weren't any other physical outlets where you could buy other shit.

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