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Thread: The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

  1. #1
    Heisenberg
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    The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

    This may not be as tasty as the other thread. It would be nice if it isn't. Hopefully Biden can 'Make American Politics Boring Again'.

  2. #2
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

    I stayed up to watch the Biden/Harris thing last night. Quite impressed by the tone and delivery. Biden made one small slip but managed to rescue himself. Harris was word and pitch perfect. No mention of Trump direct - but the comparison was there in every word.

    The agenda they laid out showed that grown up politics and norms of behaviour will return to the USA - with climate change and tackling structural racism coming in close behind Covid and the economy.

    Grown up but Biden is a centrist, a globalist, someone who was associated with some of the worst acts of Clinton and Obama when it came to wars and injustice - and a natural compromiser with the Republicans (which may be inevitable if they hold the Senate).

    He is not Trump - that is his USP. But I can see him and Harris quickly turning on their more radical and diverse base and drawing all the wrong conclusions about why the blue wave never happened. He will frustrate and disappoint - but he is not Trump!

  3. #3

    Re: The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

    I do think the USA needs some healing, its effect on the rest of the world is very significant.

  4. #4

    Re: The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I stayed up to watch the Biden/Harris thing last night. Quite impressed by the tone and delivery. Biden made one small slip but managed to rescue himself. Harris was word and pitch perfect. No mention of Trump direct - but the comparison was there in every word.

    The agenda they laid out showed that grown up politics and norms of behaviour will return to the USA - with climate change and tackling structural racism coming in close behind Covid and the economy.

    Grown up but Biden is a centrist, a globalist, someone who was associated with some of the worst acts of Clinton and Obama when it came to wars and injustice - and a natural compromiser with the Republicans (which may be inevitable if they hold the Senate).

    He is not Trump - that is his USP. But I can see him and Harris quickly turning on their more radical and diverse base and drawing all the wrong conclusions about why the blue wave never happened. He will frustrate and disappoint - but he is not Trump!
    What's your take on why the blue wave never happened Jon?

    You saw enough on here from the Trump red meat gang on banal slogans like "Defund the Police". US Policing is not UK policing but even so sending a political message in the US, a far more conservative country than here, was very unlikely to resonate in the states and counties that the Democrats needed to win to flip the Senate. Unlikely that centrist Democrats were leading that charge.

  5. #5

    Re: The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I stayed up to watch the Biden/Harris thing last night. Quite impressed by the tone and delivery. Biden made one small slip but managed to rescue himself. Harris was word and pitch perfect. No mention of Trump direct - but the comparison was there in every word.

    The agenda they laid out showed that grown up politics and norms of behaviour will return to the USA - with climate change and tackling structural racism coming in close behind Covid and the economy.

    Grown up but Biden is a centrist, a globalist, someone who was associated with some of the worst acts of Clinton and Obama when it came to wars and injustice - and a natural compromiser with the Republicans (which may be inevitable if they hold the Senate).

    He is not Trump - that is his USP. But I can see him and Harris quickly turning on their more radical and diverse base and drawing all the wrong conclusions about why the blue wave never happened. He will frustrate and disappoint - but he is not Trump!
    I didn't realise until yesterday that Biden had worked around a stutter all his life.

  6. #6

    Re: The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    I didn't realise until yesterday that Biden had worked around a stutter all his life.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3vxEudif8

  7. #7
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    What's your take on why the blue wave never happened Jon?

    You saw enough on here from the Trump red meat gang on banal slogans like "Defund the Police". US Policing is not UK policing but even so sending a political message in the US, a far more conservative country than here, was very unlikely to resonate in the states and counties that the Democrats needed to win to flip the Senate. Unlikely that centrist Democrats were leading that charge.
    The straight answer is that I do not know why there was no blue wave. I didn't expect one, but I suspect it was down to polling organisations not getting through to Trump supporters and missing the latent level of support he had, to the effectiveness of the 'socialist' attacks on Biden/Harris (if only!) especially with red blue collar white men and Cuban Latinos in Florida, to the Democrat electoral demobilisation caused by Covid, and to a lack of enthusiasm for Biden. He was the 'not Trump' candidate - which is a negative not a positive pitch.

    The underlying anger in the USA, UK, eastern Europe and other places that leads so many people to follow right wing populist demagogues is a feature of our times. I have no time for Gluey or Organ or the other conspiracy theorist nutters many of them using the Weimar Republic SA/Nazi playbook), but there is a real and deep alienation that has led to Trump, Orban, Brexit etc across swathes of north and south America and Europe. It has a lot in common with the nationalism of Putin and the ethno/religious extremism of Netanyahu. It hasn't gone away. If Biden and Harris think they can just rewind the clock to a more 'normalised' state that existed before Trump they don't understand what is going on. At the same time a massive movement of grass roots anti-racist organisations have emerged in the USA - inspired in part by Bernie Sanders - for whom socialism is not a dirty word and who have a series of policy objectives they want the new president to tackle - against systemic racism, around climate change, a new green deal etc. Many of those issues will be difficult for Biden whatever he says now.

    Trump defeated is a massive victory - but I am not going to get carried away by any illusions about Biden. He will not change too much from earlier versions, even if he has adopted a slightly more radical programme for this election. The euphoria is mainly about symbolism and tone - major policy advances will be a real bonus.

    I have been trawling a lot of blogs and news sites in recent days. The Guardian has come up with some of the most interesting stuff (including a June piece on what defunding the police really means - not how it is usually presented):

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...t-does-it-mean

    Ocasio-Cortez on the weakness of the Democrat party machine that contributed to blue wave failure:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...mocratic-party

    And Gabriel Byrne (in a review article/interview about his autobiography) as a detached observer on the election and the disconnect between liberal politics and the underlying rage:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/202...-going-to-hell

    Where are the Trump gang? Has it come yet? How has the CTH called Pensylvania? Are they all under their rocks?

  8. #8

    Re: The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    The straight answer is that I do not know why there was no blue wave. I didn't expect one, but I suspect it was down to polling organisations not getting through to Trump supporters and missing the latent level of support he had, to the effectiveness of the 'socialist' attacks on Biden/Harris (if only!) especially with red blue collar white men and Cuban Latinos in Florida, to the Democrat electoral demobilisation caused by Covid, and to a lack of enthusiasm for Biden. He was the 'not Trump' candidate - which is a negative not a positive pitch.

    The underlying anger in the USA, UK, eastern Europe and other places that leads so many people to follow right wing populist demagogues is a feature of our times. I have no time for Gluey or Organ or the other conspiracy theorist nutters many of them using the Weimar Republic SA/Nazi playbook), but there is a real and deep alienation that has led to Trump, Orban, Brexit etc across swathes of north and south America and Europe. It has a lot in common with the nationalism of Putin and the ethno/religious extremism of Netanyahu. It hasn't gone away. If Biden and Harris think they can just rewind the clock to a more 'normalised' state that existed before Trump they don't understand what is going on. At the same time a massive movement of grass roots anti-racist organisations have emerged in the USA - inspired in part by Bernie Sanders - for whom socialism is not a dirty word and who have a series of policy objectives they want the new president to tackle - against systemic racism, around climate change, a new green deal etc. Many of those issues will be difficult for Biden whatever he says now.

    Trump defeated is a massive victory - but I am not going to get carried away by any illusions about Biden. He will not change too much from earlier versions, even if he has adopted a slightly more radical programme for this election. The euphoria is mainly about symbolism and tone - major policy advances will be a real bonus.

    I have been trawling a lot of blogs and news sites in recent days. The Guardian has come up with some of the most interesting stuff (including a June piece on what defunding the police really means - not how it is usually presented):

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...t-does-it-mean

    Ocasio-Cortez on the weakness of the Democrat party machine that contributed to blue wave failure:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...mocratic-party

    And Gabriel Byrne (in a review article/interview about his autobiography) as a detached observer on the election and the disconnect between liberal politics and the underlying rage:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/202...-going-to-hell

    Where are the Trump gang? Has it come yet? How has the CTH called Pensylvania? Are they all under their rocks?
    I have been trawling a lot of blogs and news sites in recent days. The Guardian has come up with some of the most interesting stuff (including a June piece on what defunding the police really means - not how it is usually presented):
    Isn't that the crux of the issue though? The phrase wasn't "Reform the Police" or "Revamp the Police" but defund them. I would think that lots of people would look at George Floyd's last moments and think that US policing is a distortion of what they want.

    But most of those people still want the comfort that there is a a force of law and order to protect them in dangerous times. Defund the Police as a political slogan offers them the opposite. If you think different then that's another issue on which we vary.

  9. #9

    Re: The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

    strange to think that the republicans have only won the popular vote once since the 1980s

  10. #10
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    Isn't that the crux of the issue though? The phrase wasn't "Reform the Police" or "Revamp the Police" but defund them. I would think that lots of people would look at George Floyd's last moments and think that US policing is a distortion of what they want.

    But most of those people still want the comfort that there is a a force of law and order to protect them in dangerous times. Defund the Police as a political slogan offers them the opposite. If you think different then that's another issue on which we vary.
    The slogan covers a vast range of views - especially in the wider BLM movement. It invites misrepresentation. However, in a time of economic crisis and defunding of many critical social programmes, the police budgets across the USA have mainly been protected. I do agree with redirecting a proportion of police funding. I am not an advocate of a state without police!

    The Guardian article made the point effectively that the police in the USA often act in a way that increases crime. They are the iron fist when in many circumstances a velvet glove would be more effective and cheaper (especially when the target is drug misuse, homelessness and peaceful protest). The example of the New York police work to rule is also powerful. They tried to demonstrate that crime would escalate out of control if they worked fewer hours - following the Rudy G playbook - but crime went down!

    One of the underlying arguments behind 'Defund The Police' is that American police are incapable of reform. I do not believe that - I have seen many examples of good, community policing in TV reports and documentaries. It is the exception rather than the rule, but it can and has been done.

    That leaves me in a position where I want to see major police reform and a reduction in their protected budgets - but in most cases I don't yet see the USA as ready to maintain law and order or to 'protect and serve' without police. I can agree with James Clyburn that the Defund The Police slogan scared many people and probably cost votes, whilst still agreeing with a lot of what the slogan was intended to convey:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...emocrats-polls

  11. #11

    Re: The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

    I think that part of the problem in the States is that many people want a change from the status quo (usually elderly white blokes sponsored by big business) but they are also indoctrinated that many things that we consider ethical (e.g. unions, universal health care, gun control) are part and parcel of the encroachment of socialism/communism.

    It's ironic that many people over there want to protect the concept of 'The American Dream' that they will never have a chance of experiencing in reality. That's why you can get them to vote for policies that are against their own interests: 62% of bankruptcies in the States are due to individuals who cannot pay their own health bills.

  12. #12
    Heisenberg
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    Re: The President Elect, Joe Biden Thread

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...ent-government

    'Turns out Americans actually like competent government'
    BY KEVIN WALLING, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR
    The views expressed by contributors are their own and not the view of The Hill

    President Joe Biden is riding high on a public job approval rating his predecessor could only dream of as Americans are giving the 46th Commander-in-Chief high marks based clearly on his handling of the COVID-19 crisis. In new polling from Ipsos, Biden enjoys a 58 percent approval rating among registered voters, including 56 percent of independents — a critical voting bloc that helped deliver him the presidency. At the highest point in his tenure, former President Donald Trump had just a 49 percent approval rating — back in January 2020, on the heels of his first impeachment acquittal in the senate.

    Last month, Trump’s former chief pollster Tony Fabrizio released a 27-page, post-mortem campaign report that laid most of the blame for the incumbent president’s loss on his handling of the COVID-19 pandemic. From Politico’s coverage of the report, “The autopsy says that coronavirus registered as the top issue among voters, and that Biden won those voters by a nearly 3-to-1 margin. A majority registered disapproval of Trump’s handling of the virus.”

    There is no question that the 2020 election outcome was based predominately on the COVID-19 crisis and then-candidate Biden’s assurances that he would defeat the virus early in his administration. In his Inaugural Address, the president spoke of the coronavirus crisis through the lens of unity and shared sacrifice: “My fellow Americans, in the work ahead of us, we will need each other. We will need all our strength to persevere through this dark winter. We are entering what may well be the toughest and deadliest period of the virus. We must set aside the politics and finally face this pandemic as one nation.”


    Just over 50 days have passed since the president spoke of that “dark winter,” yet there has been a marked improvement in Americans’ views on the COVID-19 crisis. New polling from Morning Consult track a clear jump in public sentiment around the vaccine: “Two and a half months into the country’s COVID-19 vaccine rollout, the public’s opinion of the effort has improved markedly — though they still want it to go faster… 57 percent of adults said they think the vaccine rollout has been effective, up from 39 percent in early January.”

    With final passage and signing of the American Rescue Plan this week — the sweeping $1.9 trillion package that has a remarkable level of public approval — Biden is riding a wave of public support specifically based on his response to the COVID-19 crisis. From ABC News: “More than two-thirds of Americans (68 percent) approve of Biden's approach to the pandemic — a consistent result since he took office in January. At a moment of deep political polarization, his steady approval is also reinforced by positive marks from 35 percent of Republicans, 67 percent of independents and an overwhelming 98 percent of Democrats in the poll.”

    Similarly, for the first time in Gallup’s tracking of the COVID-19 pandemic, 60 percent of Americans believe the coronavirus situation is getting better — a record-high level of positive sentiment, which “likely reflects the steep decline in new COVID-19 cases in the U.S. in late January and early February.”


    The Biden administration’s markedly different approach from its predecessor’s regarding managing the crisis — namely putting the president front and center with regard to vaccine announcements, distribution and supply chain management — has clearly been a winning strategy. In the past few weeks, a handful of governors have announced both the ending of mask mandates and the reopening of various business in contrast to the guidance from the CDC and Biden’s framing of the mask issue as our collective “civic responsibility.” Public sentiment is strongly behind Biden’s leadership on these issues as well: “More Americans think loosening mask mandates and restrictions on public gatherings is happening too quickly, 56 percent and 50 percent respectively, compared to only about 1 in 4 who believe it's happening too slowly, 22 percent and 26 percent respectively,” according to ABC.

    On Thursday night, President Biden delivered his first primetime address from the White House, marking the one-year anniversary of the world locking down because of the virus. A CBS poll released Thursday morning showed Biden’s support still riding high, “narrowing the partisan divide.”

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