All time league table of English league teams based on their end of season positions

[Eric the Half a Bee]

In recent times there's been some discussion on where Cardiff City's overall rightful position should be. In order to try and calculate this, I've taken all the league tables from 1888 and ranked each team on where they finish. For example, the team that wins the league is placed first. If you win the Championship, you are ranked 21st. Bottom of the league and your rank is 92nd. Divide the total of the ranks by the number of seasons played and you have an average league position.

Our average league position is 39th, which would currently be 19th in the Championship. I'll post the whole table lower in the thread.

Of interest, the top 5 are Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, Everton and Aston Villa.

Bristol City's average is 40th, Swansea's 47th, Newport's is 68th.

I've also looked at this table since the resumption of play after World War 2. We had 4 divisions, which didn't happen in the earlier days of the league, so that affects the stats of some clubs a little.

This has barely any effect on us - our average league position over this timescale is 40th, again better than both of our rivals. While we have only managed 9 seasons in the top flight since the war, we have spent 44 seasons in the second tier, longer than any other club over the same time.

Anyway, here's the list of teams and their average positions since time began. Removed are those teams that spent a brief amount of time in the football league prior to having 4 divisions. Due to the method of calculation, a team that spent a few seasons in division 3 when there were only 3 divisions appears to have done better than a similar team with a brief stint in the 4th tier.

Liverpool 8.1
Arsenal 8.6
Manchester United 9.1
Everton 9.7
Aston Villa 11.8
Tottenham Hotspur 11.9
Chelsea 13.1
Manchester City 13.5
Newcastle United 14.2
Sunderland 16.3
West Bromwich Albion 17.9
West Ham United 18.5
Blackburn Rovers 20.0
Derby County 20.5
Wolverhampton Wanderers 20.7
Leeds United 20.7
Middlesbrough 21.1
Sheffield Wednesday 21.6
Bolton Wanderers 22.0
Sheffield United 22.3
Leicester City 22.4
Stoke City 22.8
Birmingham City 23.0
Nottingham Forest 23.2
Southampton 25.2
Burnley 26.5
Ipswich Town 27.0
Preston North End 30.0
Wimbledon 30.1
Portsmouth 32.4
Charlton Athletic 32.4
Fulham 32.9
Huddersfield Town 33.3
Norwich City 34.1
Coventry City 34.6
Blackpool 36.0
Queens Park Rangers 36.6
Crystal Palace 37.8
Cardiff City 39.2
Bristol City 40.6
Luton Town 41.1
Notts County 42.1
Hull City 42.6
Barnsley 42.7
Watford 43.5
Millwall 44.4
Grimsby Town 44.5
Bury 45.2
Oldham Athletic 45.6
Swansea City 47.4
Wigan Athletic 47.7
Brighton & Hove Albion 47.7
Reading 48.4
Bradford Park Avenue 48.5
Plymouth Argyle 49.2
Bradford City 50.5
Rotherham United 52.0
Brentford 52.3
Port Vale 52.6
Leyton Orient 53.1
Swindon Town 53.2
Oxford United 53.5
Bristol Rovers 54.5
AFC Bournemouth 55.0
Walsall 56.0
Chesterfield 57.4
Milton Keynes Dons 57.8
Lincoln City 57.9
Tranmere Rovers 58.4
Stockport County 59.0
Accrington Stanley 59.6
Doncaster Rovers 60.6
Carlisle United 60.8
Shrewsbury Town 60.8
Southend United 61.0
Gillingham 61.5
Wrexham 62.0
Peterborough United 63.3
Burton Albion 64.2
Crewe Alexandra 64.6
Colchester United 65.4
Northampton Town 65.5
Southport 65.9
Scunthorpe United 66.0
Barrow 66.0
Yeovil Town 66.8
Cambridge United 67.1
Mansfield Town 67.4
Wycombe Wanderers 67.6
Newport County 68.2
York City 68.5
Halifax Town 69.4
Exeter City 69.8
Chester City 69.9
Rochdale 70.8
Torquay United 71.3
Hartlepool United 71.8
Darlington 72.0
Aldershot 72.4
Crawley Town 73.8
Workington 73.8
AFC Wimbledon 74.1
Stevenage 74.5
Salford City 77.0
Cheltenham Town 77.3
Rushden & Diamonds 78.2
Hereford United 78.4
Forest Green Rovers 80.0
Dagenham and Redbridge 81.2
Barnet 82.6
Maidstone United 82.7
Scarborough 82.8
Boston United 83.2
Kidderminster Harriers 83.2
Macclesfield Town 83.5
Morecambe 83.8

[Cyclops]

You should factor in FA Cup results too for a complete picture.
How did you count the North/South leagues?
Wimbledon's position can't be right.....

[Eric the Half a Bee]

You should factor in FA Cup results too for a complete picture.
How did you count the North/South leagues?
Wimbledon's position can't be right.....

Yes, FA cup is my next step. My gut feeling is that, despite winning it, making 2 finals and a couple of semis, our record isn't great in it, given the time spent in the top flight.

North and South was given equal ranking, so 1st in each would have been 45th with 2 divisions of 22 sides. Thinking about it, perhaps a position gap would be better. 45th for first in both, 47th for 2nd etc. That gives virtually the same weighting as 4 divisions.

Haven't bothered with non-league. I'd be there for days!

[lardy]

You should factor in FA Cup results too for a complete picture.
How did you count the North/South leagues?
Wimbledon's position can't be right.....

Wimbledon spent longer in the top division than it took them to get promoted, so it seems right to me. Think it was about 10 years to get there and they stayed for 15 years.

[Cowbridge Blue]

Well done, Eric, you produce some really interesting stuff for us

Much appreciated

[splott parker]

Fascinating stuff, love statistics like this

[Cyclops]

Wimbledon spent longer in the top division than it took them to get promoted, so it seems right to me. Think it was about 10 years to get there and they stayed for 15 years.

Didn't realise Wimbledon were in the top flight for so long - 14 years. But they didn't get into the Football League until 1977. Portsmouth were in the First Division/Premiership for more seasons and have been in the FL since the 1920-1921 season. They must have a better record than Wimbledon.

[the other bob wilson]

Didn't realise Wimbledon were in the top flight for so long - 14 years. But they didn't get into the Football League until 1977. Portsmouth were in the First Division/Premiership for more seasons and have been in the FL since the 1920-1921 season. They must have a better record than Wimbledon.

Apologies to Eric if I've got this wrong, but I think he's going by an average finish per season in the one to ninety two league structure. Therefore, a team like Wimbledon that only had something like thirty seasons in the Football League would have a higher average finishing position than a team like Portsmouth over their long Football League history because they spent so much of their time as a league club in the First division/Premier League.

If that's right, our average finishing position since 1920 is something like seventeenth in the second tier.

[lardy]

Didn't realise Wimbledon were in the top flight for so long - 14 years. But they didn't get into the Football League until 1977. Portsmouth were in the First Division/Premiership for more seasons and have been in the FL since the 1920-1921 season. They must have a better record than Wimbledon.

But it's an average. 15 seasons out of 30 would be better than 48 seasons out of 100.

[Allez Allez Allez]

But it's an average. 15 seasons out of 30 would be better than 48 seasons out of 100.

There has to be an element of weighting for this table to work.

Best way to do it, in my opinion would be to rank points won in the top flight * 4, championship * 3, League 1 * 2 and League 2 * 1

[Moodybluebird]

It would be interesting to find out our average position excluding the 1930's and 1990's, our really fallow periods.

Likewise I'd love to know Liverpool's average position prior to the Shankly revolution in the early 60's. Prior to that they were virtual nonentities.

[Divine Wright]

It would be interesting to find out our average position excluding the 1930's and 1990's, our really fallow periods.

Likewise I'd love to know Liverpool's average position prior to the Shankly revolution in the early 60's. Prior to that they were virtual nonentities.

We were crap at the end of the eighties/star of noughties too. Weren’t we? Funny that the nineties were rubbish, I remember a fair few good seasons with Welsh Cup and European Cup games added on. I feel like the real crap was end of eighties going into the nineties, then there was something of an upturn.

[Moodybluebird]

Just checked Liverpool's history for myself. They weren't the nonentities I thought they were, having won 4 Division 1 titles before Bill Shankly arrived.

Since our promotion from the 3rd level, were probably rated in the top 30 quite easily.

[the other bob wilson]

Yes, great work Eric. Personally, breaking it down into different time periods to try and make us look better than we are defeats the object and, as you say, including the FA Cup would probably result in a lower position - we reached two Finals and a Semi Final in the twenties I believe and then there's 2008 of course, but we've done bugger all in the competition besides that, I can remember reading in 1977 when we reached the Fifth Round that it was our best run in the tournament since 1927.

[Allez Allez Allez]

How did you rank teams who finished in Div 3(N) and Div 3(S)?

How did you count Newport's seasons when they were non-league?

[Moodybluebird]

We were crap at the end of the eighties/star of noughties too. Weren’t we? Funny that the nineties were rubbish, I remember a fair few good seasons with Welsh Cup and European Cup games added on. I feel like the real crap was end of eighties going into the nineties, then there was something of an upturn.

We took a couple of European beatings at the end of the 80's and beginning of the 90's, specifically against Aarhus from Denmark and Standard Liege. And we were also beaten by Admira Wacker of Austria. Not our greatest of European nights.

Hats off to Eric though for compiling such an interesting analysis. He's our very own Statto and doing a cracking job too.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

We took a couple of European beatings at the end of the 80's and beginning of the 90's, specifically against Aarhus from Denmark and Standard Liege. And we were also beaten by Admira Wacker of Austria. Not our greatest of European nights.

Hats off to Eric though for compiling such an interesting analysis. He's our very own Statto and doing a cracking job too.

Thanks for the kind comment!

Yes, we had 3 European campaigns from 1988 onwards. Apart from a routine and expected win over Derry City, Aarhus thrashed us 6-1 on aggregate, Admira Wacker won 3-1 and we conceded 8 to Standard Liege over 2 legs. Great away trips by all accounts but not particularly for the football! In fairness, a lower division side was hardly going to trouble any decent European teams.

Following the win over Real Madrid, we played a further 21 European Cup Winners' Cup matches, winning 3, drawing 6 and losing 12! We've a better record in the Algarve Cup, though!

Between 1988 and 1995 we reached 5 Welsh Cup finals, winning 3 and losing the last 2, one of them infamously to Barry Town. We didn't always have the best of records against the Jacks, but when it came to the Welsh Cup, they could hardly beat us.