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Thread: New home for City's Academy.

  1. #1

    New home for City's Academy.

    https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...sports-complex

    The mention of "classrooms" has me thinking that we're looking for Class 1 Academy status, but I'm not certain about that.

  2. #2

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...sports-complex

    The mention of "classrooms" has me thinking that we're looking for Class 1 Academy status, but I'm not certain about that.

    Category 1 Academy status should have been the very first priority of the Cardiff City Board when the Club were promoted under Malky. Until that is achieved City's youngsters, no matter how good, will always be at the mercy of the PL clubs, and for scant reimbursement. Let's hope your thoughts on this matter are true.

    StT.
    <><

  3. #3

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Looks nice and well done to the club for doing this but I thought the new training ground was going to be for the whole club from 1st team down - get everyone on the same site as a symbol of a clear pathway to the first team. Although that might not be feasible or indeed necessary.

  4. #4

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve the Tea View Post

    Category 1 Academy status should have been the very first priority of the Cardiff City Board when the Club were promoted under Malky. Until that is achieved City's youngsters, no matter how good, will always be at the mercy of the PL clubs, and for scant reimbursement. Let's hope your thoughts on this matter are true.

    StT.
    <><
    Hasn't that only applied to Rabbi Matondo in the years since then?

  5. #5

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Isn't this a similar model that Swansea adopted at the Fairwood complex it shares with the University?

  6. #6

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Looks expensive.

  7. #7

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    Looks expensive.
    Probably less than Gary Madine cost, but will be more useful.

  8. #8

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by cardiff55 View Post
    Probably less than Gary Madine cost, but will be more useful.
    Rumours are that part of Madine's leaving settlement he took a salary and pay-off reduction as long as he could get free membership to Llanrumney RFC's clubhouse on international days to take on anyone who fancied it!

  9. #9
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    Rumours are that part of Madine's leaving settlement he took a salary and pay-off reduction as long as he could get free membership to Llanrumney RFC's clubhouse on international days to take on anyone who fancied it!
    Top rumour!

  10. #10

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Hasn't that only applied to Rabbi Matondo in the years since then?
    It's not as if we've been churning out players of sufficient standard, though. If our youngsters are not good enough for the Championship then they are hardly likely to be deemed good enough by a PL club. After years of great promise Cameron Coxe ended up at Solihull Moors not the PL.

    StT.
    <><

  11. #11

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    "There was talk of potentially upgrading Cardiff City's academy to category one status, a move which would really capitalise on Swansea City's being downgraded, but that has been put on the backburner amid the coronavirus pandemic, with funds needed elsewhere across the club."

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...-huge-19313417

  12. #12

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    "There was talk of potentially upgrading Cardiff City's academy to category one status, a move which would really capitalise on Swansea City's being downgraded, but that has been put on the backburner amid the coronavirus pandemic, with funds needed elsewhere across the club."

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...-huge-19313417
    there's a lot of improving we could do without becoming a category one academy, as some other clubs have shown.

    https://trainingground.guru/articles...nkings-2017/18

    This ranking from a couple of seasons ago shows how poor us and our friends out west have been at this.

    This season 12 out of the 24 teams in the championship have a player that came from Reading's academy regularly in their first team.

    Cardiff don't even have any in our own first team unless you count Ralls, and I don't think we should.

  13. #13

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    there's a lot of improving we could do without becoming a category one academy, as some other clubs have shown.

    https://trainingground.guru/articles...nkings-2017/18

    This ranking from a couple of seasons ago shows how poor us and our friends out west have been at this.

    This season 12 out of the 24 teams in the championship have a player that came from Reading's academy regularly in their first team.

    Cardiff don't even have any in our own first team unless you count Ralls, and I don't think we should.
    According to Wales on line the Jacks Cat 1 Academy has produced 10 players that are now playing in the Premier League and Championship. Recently Dan James, McBurnie and Roden have gone for big money 50 m+ .I know others are also playing in Division 1&2 so a Cat 1 Academy definitely pays off!

  14. #14

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto13 View Post
    According to Wales on line the Jacks Cat 1 Academy has produced 10 players that are now playing in the Premier League and Championship. Recently Dan James, McBurnie and Roden have gone for big money 50 m+ .I know others are also playing in Division 1&2 so a Cat 1 Academy definitely pays off!
    Yep, on closer inspection that list only counts England qualified players for some reason. So the jacks will be a lot higher (i doubt we will be though)

    McBurnie wasn't a swansea academy product though.

    I make it 3 current EPL players from there, Half a dozen Championship and a few more elsewhere.

    Much better than us

  15. #15

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    The Council have been looking to flog that bit of land ever since the school closed. I'm surprised that it hasn't already been sold for housing. Mind you, the access around there is not good - Ball Road is the only way in or out - especially with the Cardiff Uni pitches right next door, and more council football and rugby pitches further along. Traffic flow is definitely going to rise.
    But still, this has to be seen as a good thing fo the club, and it will hopefully improve the playing staff, even if it takes a while to show results.

  16. #16

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    The Council have been looking to flog that bit of land ever since the school closed. I'm surprised that it hasn't already been sold for housing. Mind you, the access around there is not good - Ball Road is the only way in or out - especially with the Cardiff Uni pitches right next door, and more council football and rugby pitches further along. Traffic flow is definitely going to rise.
    But still, this has to be seen as a good thing fo the club, and it will hopefully improve the playing staff, even if it takes a while to show results.

    There is the promise of a road linking the bottom of Llanrumney & Eastern Avenue....promise? Erm rumour perhaps. It’s a huge area isn’t it, encompassing the old Ball Road school site, The University grounds, Rumney Rugby Club, Pen-yr-Heol School. Im not sure that the ground is suitable for a large scale housing project, it’s prone to flooding. Quite recently the rugby club was out of action due to flooding, I think the Rhymney River bursts its banks quite regularly. I can remember playing football there years ago and the nearer the pitches were to the river the boggier they were.

  17. #17

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    There is the promise of a road linking the bottom of Llanrumney & Eastern Avenue....promise? Erm rumour perhaps. It’s a huge area isn’t it, encompassing the old Ball Road school site, The University grounds, Rumney Rugby Club, Pen-yr-Heol School. Im not sure that the ground is suitable for a large scale housing project, it’s prone to flooding. Quite recently the rugby club was out of action due to flooding, I think the Rhymney River bursts its banks quite regularly. I can remember playing football there years ago and the nearer the pitches were to the river the boggier they were.

    Flippers and snorkels were supplied

  18. #18

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUETIT View Post
    Flippers and snorkels were supplied
    We knew something was up when the home team were wearing armbands!!

  19. #19
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    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Yep, on closer inspection that list only counts England qualified players for some reason. So the jacks will be a lot higher (i doubt we will be though)

    McBurnie wasn't a swansea academy product though.

    I make it 3 current EPL players from there, Half a dozen Championship and a few more elsewhere.

    Much better than us
    Dan James wasn't either, he was signed from Hull at 17

  20. #20

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    There is the promise of a road linking the bottom of Llanrumney & Eastern Avenue....promise? Erm rumour perhaps. It’s a huge area isn’t it, encompassing the old Ball Road school site, The University grounds, Rumney Rugby Club, Pen-yr-Heol School.
    The diagram I saw doesn't seem to include the Cardiff Uni site, nor the rugby club?
    Also, there has been talk of a Llanrumney turn-off onto the A48 ever since they built the thing.

  21. #21

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    Dan James wasn't either, he was signed from Hull at 17
    that still gives them 2 pl players and 5 or 6 championship , which makes them in the top 30-40ish academies, but one of the least productive cat 1 academies still

  22. #22

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    there's a lot of improving we could do without becoming a category one academy, as some other clubs have shown.

    https://trainingground.guru/articles...nkings-2017/18

    This ranking from a couple of seasons ago shows how poor us and our friends out west have been at this.

    This season 12 out of the 24 teams in the championship have a player that came from Reading's academy regularly in their first team.

    Cardiff don't even have any in our own first team unless you count Ralls, and I don't think we should.
    We signed Ralls at 15. McBurnie was signed at 18 and James at 17. Ralls is undeniably a youth team player

  23. #23

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    that still gives them 2 pl players and 5 or 6 championship , which makes them in the top 30-40ish academies, but one of the least productive cat 1 academies still
    We have Matondo and Ramsey in Serie A.

  24. #24

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    The diagram I saw doesn't seem to include the Cardiff Uni site, nor the rugby club?
    Also, there has been talk of a Llanrumney turn-off onto the A48 ever since they built the thing.
    What I meant was the whole area that’s not been developed for housing is huge, I know the academy development isn’t stretching to the lot but with the amount of housing development that’s gone on around that area over the last 40 odd years it’s surprising that nothing has happened there. Re. The road promise, that’s why I included a ? followed by ‘rumour’.

  25. #25

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    We have Matondo and Ramsey in Serie A.
    Matondo left when he was 16(?) and Ramsey when he was 17. What are the rules when working out if a player can be attributed to a certain academy if James signing for the Jacks at 17 doesn't count but Matondo leaving us at 16(?) does? In order to say we've brought through players, aside from Ralls, you have to talk about Ramsey, Gunter and Ledley which was ages ago.

    New project looks smart. Slightly surprised that we're not asking for more indoor pitches though.

  26. #26

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    Matondo left when he was 16(?) and Ramsey when he was 17. What are the rules when working out if a player can be attributed to a certain academy if James signing for the Jacks at 17 doesn't count but Matondo leaving us at 16(?) does? In order to say we've brought through players, aside from Ralls, you have to talk about Ramsey, Gunter and Ledley which was ages ago.

    New project looks smart. Slightly surprised that we're not asking for more indoor pitches though.
    The wider issue, who is coming out of South Wales? The Jacks have 3(?) in Cabango, Rodon and Roberts (obvs Rodon has now moved on). The Jacks have done well but I don't think they're the poster club for the academy that they're made out to be. I think Cardiff and Swansea suffer in rankings like this due to the fact we are Welsh (certainly in some as being Welsh home grown did/still affects things slightly differently).

  27. #27

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    Matondo left when he was 16(?) and Ramsey when he was 17. What are the rules when working out if a player can be attributed to a certain academy if James signing for the Jacks at 17 doesn't count but Matondo leaving us at 16(?) does? In order to say we've brought through players, aside from Ralls, you have to talk about Ramsey, Gunter and Ledley which was ages ago.

    New project looks smart. Slightly surprised that we're not asking for more indoor pitches though.
    Mention of Joe Ledley takes me back to that match against Sheffield United in 2005 which was played the day after what became known as Black Friday when Kav left in a helicopter to sign for Wigan. There were real fears that it could be City's Final ever game and the fact that the game was won by a single goal from a local teenager was a real sense of pride for me.

    That takes me on to that question posed by Richard Holt in one of his quizzes on here when he asked what only happened six times in the whole of the twentieth century at Cardiff City and yet in the 2014/15 season, there were only two games where it did not happen. The answer was we played a game without a Welsh man in the team and nothing has happened in the past six years to make that enormous contrast less relevant.

    There's been a discussion in this thread about whether Joe Ralls counts as an Academy product. My view is that he does because he played a season for the Under 18 team, but I don't see him as a "Cardiff City product". Joe's been a great servant for City and posted a very nice Tweet about his time with us yesterday after making his 250th appearance for the club, but I don't have that connection with him that I did with a Ledley, Ramsey or Gunter.

    So, I think there's been a missing emotional connection between City fans and players in the past decade which was always there before, but there's also the practical financial and playing factors to be considered - we're missing out on so much by not producing our own players. There's clearly a desire at the club for this to change with this talk of new training centres and the hiring of the highly regarded David Hughes, but will we finally get a manager who is prepared to take a chance on youth?

  28. #28

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    The wider issue, who is coming out of South Wales? The Jacks have 3(?) in Cabango, Rodon and Roberts (obvs Rodon has now moved on). The Jacks have done well but I don't think they're the poster club for the academy that they're made out to be. I think Cardiff and Swansea suffer in rankings like this due to the fact we are Welsh (certainly in some as being Welsh home grown did/still affects things slightly differently).
    Who is saying the jack's are a poster club? They've simply done better than us over past 3 years because they had I) previously invested into their academy, ii) had a manager who wanted to develop youth, iii) saw it as way to manage massive drop in revenue and IV) played to a style throughout the club that allowed them to make the step-up to higher level. We could be on the cusp of being in a very similar position with Harris and similar drop in revenue but haven't been in this position for the past decade or more; the jack's might be on the cusp of moving away from that because they can no longer afford the investment. Arguably, the jack's could have stayed up and continued to afford it if they hadn't spunked money in last 3/4 years in the premier league on bad signings/hires and instead focused more on their academy.

    South Wales needs a top tier academy, in my opinion. Cardiff needs a manager interested in developing youth, again in my opinion.

  29. #29

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    We signed Ralls at 15. McBurnie was signed at 18 and James at 17. Ralls is undeniably a youth team player
    Under18’s are still Academy players and under 23’s as well?They don’t come 1st team coaches but Academy set up? Matondo went to Manchester City as a 16 year old?

  30. #30

    Re: New home for City's Academy.

    Is there money to be made in an academy?

    How much does do they cost to run, given the amount of players that go through and set up fees compared to the chances of a big money sale?

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